• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

I'm (Still) Based [Bleach Edition]

Status
Not open for further replies.
If this goes through, should true zanpakuto get a rating along the lines of at least High 6A(insert reason) 3B at full power(insert reasoning) 3A to Low 2C with bankai?
 
SilentBob34 said:
If this goes through, should true zanpakuto get a rating along the lines of at least High 6A(insert reason) 3B at full power(insert reasoning) 3A to Low 2C with bankai?
Click to expand...
Anything regarding Ichigo as it relates to his state of being after the war, especially/specifically during the one shot needs to wait for more information.
 
KLOL506 said:
Aight I'll stop, XD

What would Kazui's tier be if this goes through?
Click to expand...
Where in this thread do I mention Kazui

He has no feats but he's obviously boundless because I said so.

And no snuffing out the unquantifiably tiny dregs of Yhwach's remaining reiatsu is not a quantifiable feat
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Anything regarding Ichigo as it relates to his state of being after the war, especially/specifically during the one shot needs to wait for more information.
Click to expand...
Uhh I mean as in he’s causally High 6A for toying with the Quincy girls and being able to easily beat Hikone, but he’s 3B at full power in Shikai for being able to replace the soul king and fight a casual soul king Yhwach along with Yhwach complimenting his reiatsu. Since he never actually went full power shikai (disregarding his merged hollow form) until he fought soul king Yhwach. Unless I’m the one getting confused here? It could be lol
 
SilentBob34 said:
Uhh I mean as in he’s causally High 6A for toying with the Quincy girls and being able to easily beat Hikone, but he’s 3B at full power in Shikai for being able to replace the soul king and fight a casual soul king Yhwach. Since he never actually went full power shikai (disregarding his merged hollow form) until he fought soul king Yhwach. Unless I’m the one getting confused here? It could be lol
Click to expand...
Ohhhhhhhh are you saying include True Shikai Ichigo's suppressed rating? Personally, I don't see the need to but I'm open to more opinions.
 
Zoro21043 said:
i think its weird to give him a fixed rating (at least high 6A) for being suppressed, like he can sup himself even lower probably or higher, but he was supressed for most of the arc so I can see it working but usually i think its weird to put someone as "lower while suppressed" like no shit kek
Click to expand...
My thoughts too.
 
Yeezus that was a lot, another one from Arc another agree from me

Arc would literally 1 shot Asriel with the amount of willpower and Determination he has in his bleach threads
 
Yeah, Universal Bleach is fine, I've said this before
WysMvU2.jpg
 
Arc7Kuroi said:

Introduction​

Throughout the Thousand Year Blood War Arc and with Can’t Fear Your Own World, Yhwach’s method of removing life and death is seemingly ambiguous and difficult to understand. This blog aims to describe Yhwach’s original plan of attack and how it evolved/changed during the war, culminating in what his final means of action became.

The Original Plan​

Yhwach’s original goal was to destabilize the Soul Cycle and kill the Soul King in order to break the balance of the universe causing it to ultimately collapse. Let’s look at the evidence that led me to such a conclusion.
Through the manga scans above it’s clear to see that, prior to Yhwach absorbing the Soul King, he was doing everything he could do to destroy the balance and cause the boundaries to collapse. We see this at the start of the war where he attempts to do so by imbalancing the Soul Cycle through erasing Hollows; however, Mayuri thwarts that plan by rebalancing the Soul Cycle through sacrificing civilians. Additionally, it’s heavily implied that the only reason Yhwach caused such unrest in Hueco Mundo, killing Hollows, imbalancing the Soul Cycle in the process, was solely to trap Ichigo in Hueco Mundo. To which Yhwach succeeds in doing so. This leads into Yhwach’s invasion of Seireitei, wherein he travels his way up to the Soul King Palace in order to kill the Soul King, which would destroy the boundaries between the realms and lead to their collapse. However, as I’ll later display, this method of eliminating the boundaries is disrupted as well, forcing Yhwach to act impromptu and adapt accordingly.
The scans I believe are most important to pay attention to are the two from CFYOW: lack of a Soul King causes the boundaries to collapse and Yhwach’s goal was to remove the boundaries. Additionally, we know that the reason Yhwach wanted to remove the boundaries was to destroy the realms and all connected to them (this will be made explicitly clear in the next section). So, Yhwach wanted to destroy the universe and his win-condition to do so was removing the boundaries separating the realms, this being possible through two methods: imbalancing the Soul Cycle or killing the lynchpin (Soul King) keeping the boundaries intact. To which, Yhwach fails at both, he doesn’t succeed in imbalancing the Soul Cycle nor removing the boundaries through killing the Soul King.

Nothing Goes According to Plan​

After the Shinigami of Soul Society prevents Yhwach from destroying the universe through removing the boundary twice (Mayuri correcting the balance and Ukitake performing Kamikake to release Mimihagi to stabilize the Soul King) Yhwach is forced to change plans on the fly. The change of plans involved absorbing the Soul King and as much external power as possible in order to destroy the realms with his own power. After all, if you’re stopped from sneaking in through the window of a house (Soul Cycle imbalance) or breaking the front lock (Soul King’s death) to enter, plant a bomb (remove the boundaries), and blow the house up (destroy the realms), what’s to stop you from nuking the house from outside (destroying the realms with your own power)? Essentially, after repeated failure of trying to destroy the realms through roundabout methods, Yhwach decided to take matters into his own hands and destroy the realms himself. Allow me to lay out my evidence.
Before I elaborate on these scans, I will ask a few questions for those who aren’t convinced that Yhwach was going to bust the realms with his raw power: all Yhwach had to do was not take the Soul King’s place and the boundaries would’ve collapsed leading to universal destruction, so why didn’t he do that and why would Yhwach specifically state the realms will be destroyed in the face of his own power?
After absorbing and becoming the Soul King, it is clear that Yhwach has abandoned hopes causing universal collapse through removing the boundaries. Seeing how if that weren’t the case, Yhwach could have just left the universe without a Soul King, as without a Soul King the boundaries would be destroyed within a short time. However, as Jugram and Ichibe state, Yhwach is actually keeping everything stable after becoming the new Soul King. If Yhwach still wanted to remove the boundaries in order to destroy the realms, then his actions in becoming the new Soul King would be an inherent contradiction. The only possible way to explain away this apparent contradiction is to say Yhwach no longer wanted to destroy the realms through a roundabout way (remove the boundaries), and this is supported by the word of Yhwach and his close underlings as well.
Furthermore, Tokinada’s father claims that the Soul King has dominion over the Soul Cycle. Admittedly, this is questionable information based on two reasons: Tokinada’s dad is revealed to be a liar, thus making him a questionable source at best, and we are told multiple times by the narrator (a pseudo-objective take) through databooks and novels that Shinigami are the ones who manage the Soul Cycle not the Soul King. That being said, if the Soul King really does manipulate the Soul Cycle, Yhwach could’ve simply imbalanced it himself the second he replaced the Soul King, causing the boundaries to disappear, and the universe to collapse, but he didn’t. On the other hand, if Yhwach has no dominion over the Soul Cycle, as the story leans more towards, the “flow of souls” argument is even more of a moot point. The narrative simply does not support the notion that Soul King Yhwach was going to destroy everything through removing the boundaries.
After climbing his way to the spot of Soul King, Yhwach states five times that he personally will destroy Soul Society/Soul Society and Living World. The most direct statement is the following, “The Living World, the Soul Society, it will all lose shape and become one when faced with my power!!” Here Yhwach is blatantly stated that these realms will be destroyed with his very power itself, as opposed to collapsing due to the lack of boundaries. Yhwach, the very person with the ability to act himself, states repeatedly that he will destroy the realms with his power. The fact we see Soul King Yhwach’s spiritual power start erupting within Soul Society, as opposed to moving to remove the boundaries, practically proves that Yhwach no longer planned on removing the boundaries being his method of realm destruction. Lastly, the narrative supports this notion as well, as I’ll detail below.
As shown in the end chapter sketches above, Kubo likes to depict the realms (specifically Soul Society) as orbs filled with celestial bodies (planets, stars, galaxies, etc). During the final battle with Ichigo and Yhwach, Yhwach proclaims his plan to destroy Soul Society with his own hand, and to represent this Kubo draws an orb being sliced in two. Then when Yhwach exclaims how he can see countless futures, we see a sketch with numerous orbs (representing different futures for the realms) where one of them is completely bisected, signifying a future in which Yhwach wins/Ichigo loses. Later, following Uryu’s confrontation with Jugram, we see the contents of one of the orbs spill onto a balance, representing how the fate of the universe is being weighed on the scales of Uryu’s (among everyone else’s) choices. The scale then shatters, as the contents of the orb grind to dust and spell out the word “despair”, this being obvious symbolism to the despair Yhwach wanting to enact on Ichigo in the form of destroying the universe (the ashes/dust of the destroyed orb spell despair quite literally for the heroes). Finally, a foot stamps out that despair as Kazui snuffs out the remainder of Yhwach’s spiritual energy signifying the end of the despair known as Yhwach. To sum up what these end chapter sketches are attempting to convey, if Yhwach wins/gets his way the ultimate despair will fall on the cast in the form of universal destruction.
To conclude this section, not only is destroying the realms via boundary removal going against the narrative, Yhwach directly states that he will destroy the realms with his raw power and displays this intent via causing his black spiritual energy to erupt within Soul Society.

Or Does It Not?​

This section will address the counter arguments against the above and why they don’t actually contradict the above conclusion.
The issue with this scan from CFYOW only comes when you interpret it as “Soul King Yhwach was going to remove the boundaries''. Specifically, using that interpretation to argue that Soul King Yhwach was not going to destroy the realms with his own power. First, it ignores the numerous statements Yhwach himself makes, declaring he will destroy the realms (as we see when he erupts his power within the realm of Soul Society itself). Second, it requires you to assume that Tokinada is a more valid source for interpreting what Yhwach was going to do than Yhwach, obviously what Yhwach says he will do takes priority over what others think he was going to do. Third, this statement doesn’t inherently imply Soul King Yhwach wasn’t going to destroy the realms with his own power, all this statement means is that there will be no boundaries if Yhwach wins. Therefore, this statement from Tokinada by no means debunks, nor contradicts the above section in the slightest.

It Doesn’t​

To remind everyone what conclusions were reached over the course of this blog in a neat summary. Prior to invading Seireitei, Yhwach may have attempted to destroy the realms via boundary removal by imbalancing the Soul Cycle (it is likely he was just trying to draw Ichigo into Hueco Mundo). Thanks to Mayuri’s quick action, the Soul Cycle was balanced yet again, thwarting Yhwach’s actions. After ravaging and invading Seireitei, Yhwach eliminates Squad 0 at the Soul King Palace, eventually leading to the death of the Soul King. Soul King’s death would lead to the inevitable destruction of the boundaries, causing the realms, and everything connected to be destroyed. This time, thanks to Ukitake’s Kamikake completion, he was able to release Mimihagi, stabilizing the Soul King, thwarting Yhwach’s actions yet again. After failing to remove the boundaries twice in an attempt to destroy the realms, Yhwach decides to take matters into his own hands becoming the new Soul King. With his newfound power as the Soul King and the powers of his children he cultivated and stole, Yhwach sets out to destroy the realms with his raw power, and even begins to erupt his black spiritual energy within Soul Society itself. Alas, the heroes are able to stop and defeat Yhwach before this happens. Needless to say, Soul King Yhwach wielded power capable of destroying the realms directly.

Introduction
  • As you are all aware, I am a big supporter of universal Bleach, in the sense that I believe Yhwach can not only destroy the universe, but scales to said destruction as well. After spending months “away” from the subject on VSBW and talking about it with plenty of people off site, I’ve come to a few conclusions/arguments that I believe should be the primary focus to determine the rating of the God Tiers of Bleach. Funny enough, they are rooted in the two, what I believe/recall to be, main reasons universal Bleach was rejected all the way back in January. Those reasons being: Weakened Reio’s stability is unquantifiable because of a lack of time frame and there exists no supporting feats thus the rating is an outlier (depending on the person it seems this varies from wanting an on screen tier 5 to tier 3 feat). This will be the last attempt at a Bleach God Tier CRT until the anime, and hopefully supplemental material, is released. I will talk about the bare minimum interpretation before addressing the bolded points.
The Bare Minimum
Weakened Reio Stability
Memories of Nobody
  • Currently, the God Tiers scale above this calc, which assumes the dimensions of Soul Society and World of the Living to be merely planets. This is due to an infamous quote from Toshiro, “There’s no way a tunnel connecting two hoshi (celestial bodies) can be created naturally!!” However, there are multiple issues with this statement that I will now go into.
  • We accept those two aforementioned realms as pocket universes within the Garganta, yet in this instance with Memories of Nobody we contradict the accepted size of the realms and treat them as planets. This is due to mistakenly taking Toshiro’s statement to mean, in this instance, the realms are planets. That is not inherently the case, just because the Kyogoku is connecting the realms at two specific places (two planets), does not make the realms inherently planets. For example, if I grab someone by the hand and drag them around, I am pulling their entire being while only being connected at the hand, but if someone points out that two hands are connecting that doesn’t mean we are both only hands. Essentially, all Toshiro’s statement means is that the Kyogoku is connected to two planets, it does not prove in any way that the Kyogoku is only dragging planets.
  • When Mayuri and Kisuke talk about the Kyogoku pulling Soul Society and World of the Living together, neither refer to them as planets. Kisuke states that both realms are in different dimensions. Then you’ll notice that when Mayuri asks for a status update, we are informed that it is the dimensions that are moving towards each other, not planets. This is further backed up, because Urahara informs us through dialogue and diagrams that this film sets the dimensions within the Dangai, and we see this in the camera view from Mayuri’s lab. Additionally, within World of the Living’s dimension we see the starry sky contained, opposed to the two red-black orbs being isolated planets which would indicate the stars we see are in some separate spacetime.
  • To sum up everything that’s been said regarding Memories of Nobody, we are directly told that it is the dimensions being pulled together, not the planets within them, and this is supported by the visuals. Properly calculating the feat here, we see the potency of the explosion is Galaxy level. Funny enough this is the same tier that Weakened Reio’s stability is quantified as, making everything all the more consistent. Currently, we scale the God Tiers above this explosion because Yhwach can destroy the boundaries (one of which is Dangai), and Dangai took no visible damage from this explosion, meanwhile Reio almost instantly destroyed Dangai and Yhwach absorbed that power.
  • The Galaxy level calc is already accepted, so would you look at that, a lovely tier 3 supporting feat. I keep this here as a more-or-less summary to why the calc got accepted.
Conclusions and Proposals
  • I believe I have proved the validity of Reio’s stabilization and quantified it, as well as provided a highly supportive calc to further strengthen this tier. To reiterate the above points, Weakened Reio stabilizes a universe sized realm with his own Reiryoku (spiritual power) quantifiably to Multi-Galaxy levels of power, and Senna’s explosion did not merely push two planets away but rather moved the very realms themselves. That is numerous statements plus two tier 3 supporting feats.
  • Personally, I believe the weaker forms of Ichigo and Yhwach should merely scale above Weakened Reio’s and Senna’s feat, while their pinnacles should fully scale to universal as the statements indicate.
    • Ichigo: 3-B with Mugetsu (Yhwach states this power is on par with his True Shikai) | 3-B (Cut the Weakened Reio in half, Yhwach believes this Ichigo is capable of killing Weakened Reio, capable of cutting through Soul King Yhwach’s Reiryoku, and is vastly above most everyone else in the verse), 3-A to Low 2-C with Bankai (Cut Soul King Yhwach in half, killing him twice, Yhwach admitted that he feared Ichigo’s Bankai) | At least 3-B (Hollow powers amp Ichigo’s stats), 3-A to Low 2-C with Gran Rey Cero Getsuga Tenshou (Pierced Soul King Yhwach’s defenses), higher with Bankai
      • Keys: Post-Dangai Training | True Zanpakuto | Merged Hollow Form
    • Aizen: At least 3-B, likely 3-A to Low 2-C (Capable of cutting through Soul King Yhwach’s Reiryoku, put up a decent fight against Yhwach, and is comfortably above most everyone else in the verse)
      • Keys: TYBW
    • Yhwach: 3-B (Superior to Weakened Reio) | 3-A to Low 2-C (After acquiring all of Reio’s power, he is stated capable of destroying the Bleach universe multiple times, can destroy the Dangai which survived Senna’s explosion with no visible damage)
      • Keys: With The Almighty | Soul King
    • Reio: 3-B (Prevents the collapse of the Bleach universe, which at maximum would occur over 6 months), 3-A to Low 2-C by removing Dangai (By destroying the boundaries between the realms, the entire universe collapses)
      • Keys: Weakened
    • Orihime: at least 3-B, possibly 3-A to Low 2-C with Shun Shun Rikka (Blocked Soul King Yhwach’s attacks and protected herself from True Shikai Hollowfied Ichigo’s power)
      • Thousand Year Blood War Arc

I don't feel the need to explain myself, with the recent upgrade of the God Tiers, Yhwach's statements and the narrative intent needs to be looked at again with this newfound contextualization. If it makes y'all feel better, I don't really want to touch the God Tiers after this until we get new info kekw.

Agree: Mitch
Click to expand...
I disagree because its bleach, thread closed :mad:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Arcker123
  • Locked
Yhwach and Aizen sniping from Galaxies away (Redux)
2 3
Replies
86
Views
11K
Arcker123
Arcker123
RanaProGamer
  • Locked
Bleach God Tiers Downgrade | I'M SORRY ARC7, IT AIN'T MY FAULT
Replies
30
Views
6K
DarkDragonMedeus
DarkDragonMedeus
Arcker123
Universal Bleach God Tier Revision
2
Replies
52
Views
7K
Blallooo
Blallooo
Arcker123
  • Locked
Bleach's Greatest Fanfic
11 12 13
Replies
510
Views
29K
Arc7Kuroi
Arc7Kuroi
JohnCenaNation
Ichigo & Aizen vs Uryu & Yhwach
Replies
24
Views
7K
Jo-Smooth
Jo-Smooth
Back
Top