Ikki Kurogane vs Mori Jin Tredux

[Hl3_or_bust]

Borrowed Powers are naturally intangible, kinda like Stands, and iirc there were a few made of fire or water.

You're the one wrong there. A weakness doesn't suddenly not exist because the match is with someone from another version. Regardless, aren't those actives kinda out of character and don't even stop Jin's attacks in the first place, much less stop him from attacking at all given instinctive reaction?

Yeah, that was back when 6-C Mori was a thing, so the point still stands as the difference between 6-C and 4-B is hilariously larger than whatever tier 8/7 Ikki was and 6-C. It also wasn't, it was in fact the opposite, with Ovens giving over a hundred posts of extremely detailed arguments which you unilaterailly responded to with "doesn't work" or some variation of it, and when people started to FRA Jin you stonewalled the thread.

Natural lightning isn't 4-B, you know, and the water being pure means nothing when the sheer heat of the energy alone just kinda exists.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

That's doesn't mean you can hurt a dude who can reform his body. You hit him, he reforms. Big difference. Which is why 1 is "non corporeality" and the other is "elemental intangibility".

The weakness exists. But ego isn't it. By ego they mean "break through fate", which Mori can't do. I've already explained why the "enough ego means you're unaffected" cus you'd get cut to ******* pieces if you even try without being a desperado. I've explained like 3 times here. Ego results in desperado which counters desperado. Not "you're confident you're gucci". It doesn't work.

Again bringing up old stuff i won't bother here. This isn't that fight.

So...? It's still heat. Can you show me that thing turning people into plasma? Also heat doesn't apply like that to electricity. If the resistance is too high the heat is low. Which is why things heat up extensively when there is a short circuit rather than when there's an open circuit. Just for context the formula of heat is U x I x t. Since U is constant and the I is extremely low (since the R is too high) the heat is much smaller than you'd expect.

....man majoring in electrical engineering really paying off here.

 

[Ionliosite]

Mori stomps.

 

[Purgy]

Mori Jin FRA

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Mori jin FRA

Legit no win condition mentioned from Mori

Fair enough.

 

[Rocker1189]

tbh rather than no win condition i still how see how a massive shockwave by mori that cant literally blow ikki to pieces. Your arguments against it simply dont really make sense. Has he ever reformed from being blown off planet? Or being blown away thousands+ kilometers apart?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

tbh rather than no win condition i still how see how a massive shockwave by mori that cant literally blow ikki to pieces. Your arguments against it simply dont really make sense.

Blowing vapor to pieces? Blowing "gas" to "pieces". Ya sure im the one not making sense?

Has he ever reformed from being blown off planet?

You don't need to reform from that, you're gas, you don't have a form to begin with. Being blown off a planet i've stated it like 5 times, "mori can't do that, as he's never done that before".

Or being blown away thousands+ kilometers apart?

He can just come back?

 

[Rocker1189]

Blowing vapor to pieces? Blowing "gas" to "pieces". Ya sure im the one not making sense?

You don't need to reform from that, you're gas, you don't have a form to begin with. Being blown off a planet i've stated it like 5 times, "mori can't do that, as he's never done that before".

He can just come back?

I didnt mean literal pieces, you get my point.

I am pretty sure when attacks have created planet wide calamities things are sure to go off planet.

What makes you think he can control all of his gaseous form thousands of km apart.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I am pretty sure when attacks have created planet wide calamities things are sure to go off planet.

If that meant "gas left the earth" the earth would be left without air so again it's kinda bad to debate on such points.

What makes you think he can control all of his gaseous form thousands of km apart.

Any reason he can't? It's still parts of him. It's like saying if a dude can move his head even after being decapitated, if you take it far enough from the body it will stop moving.

 

[Schnee_One]

If Parts of you are scattered around, they have to be in close proximity to form back together. This is why Elemental Intangibility is not automatically considered regen.

I don't see why the first point is bad either.

 

[Mister6ame6]

Mori stomps

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I don't see why the first point is bad either.

Because he has never done that.

 

[Purgy]

Mori Jin has 7 votes I believe.

 

[00potato]

Mori kills the CEO of incest FRA.

 

[Zaratthustra]

It won't be added anyway as is tier 6 vs 4.

 

[Purgy]

It won't be added anyway as is tier 6 vs 4.

Has that always been a thing? I've seen matches listed on profiles where the two fighters had different tiers before.

 

[RatherClueless]

Has that always been a thing? I've seen matches listed on profiles where the two fighters had different tiers before.

That's news to me too. I thought for as long as the fight is fair, it's fine

 

[00potato]

I think he means that it’s a stomp.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Mori kills the CEO of incest FRA.

Hold up. What?

 

[00potato]

Yeah, I said it.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

If Parts of you are scattered around, they have to be in close proximity to form back together. This is why Elemental Intangibility is not automatically considered regen.

When was this ever a thing?

 

[Schnee_One]

Look at how many files have elemental intangibility but no regen.

 

[00potato]

If he can control himself, he could in theory reform but with how far apart his bits will be, I doubt it will work.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Look at how many files have elemental intangibility but no regen.

Cus it is not regen. He is not "regenerating". It's reforming. By that logic non corporeals can't even reform from basic slashes cus they don't have regen on their profiles.

 

[Schnee_One]

Uhh, they can’t.

Thst logic and example is In fact completely true, if you can affect a ghost or soul and you cut said soul in half, they can die, Devil May Cry and Berzerk are two out of many examples of this.

So no, I don’t see that issue of non corporals dying to basic slashes if you can hit them.

 

[Ionliosite]

Has that always been a thing? I've seen matches listed on profiles where the two fighters had different tiers before.

The difference is that both characters need win-cons for it to be added. Here, it's a literal stomp, Ikki has absolutely no way to do anything to Mori.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

So no, I don’t see that issue of non corporals dying to basic slashes if you can hit them.

Souls are different, elements are different. Let's not confuse the 2 now.

 

[Schnee_One]

Then why did you use it as an example?
Change soul to an incorporal being and my argument doesn’t change.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

No cus we only use that for people who have "shown to damage souls like that". Entirely different thing.

 

[Schnee_One]

So in other words, yes. incorporeal beings can die to basic slashes if they are hit.

Next.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

So in other words, yes. incorporeal beings can die to basic slashes if they are hit.

Next.

"To people who have shown to damage them like that".

Can we stop acting like non physical interaction doesn't exist? That would be appreciated.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Also some nice spring breeze kills every intangible being? Noice to know. Thank god they have the power to randomly break apart because they cannot reform so yeah randomly losing shape means they're gone.

 

[Schnee_One]

Wait, so your point is that my logic is faulty because that means that incorporal beings would die to basic slashes?

You do realize that Non Corporal beings can't be physically hit while water can be, right? Slashing an incorporeal without NPI means they don't split apart because they weren't hit, Water is still a physical substance.

What even is your argument here? I don't need to state how massive of a false equivalence this is.

 

[Schnee_One]

Seriously what I am reading here is that gas still reforms even when its canceled out or spread apart by a shockwave.

Does Fire Reform after a shockwave hits it? No, because it gets dispersed

Same case here.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

The non-corporeal was my mistake. I mean Elemental Intangible dudes. (EI for short). Everyone would die to a light breeze.

Seriously what I am reading here is that gas still reforms even when its canceled out by a shockwave.

Does Fire Reform after a shockwave hits it? No, because it gets dispersed despite Fire being a type of gas.

Same case here.

Fire...the kind of gas that "specifically" stays at whatever place is causing it. And what case can you show me of fire not reforming after a shockwave when it's not being outright extinguished or just blown away long with the object causing the fire?

 

[Schnee_One]

"And what case can you show me of fire not reforming after a shockwave when it's not being outright extinguished or just blown away long with the object causing the fire?"

I can't, but I don't need too, Ikki himself is the vapor with nothing to cling to other then it itself being a gas, if its hit with a shockwave, it will spread so far apart that its impossible for it to reform, ignoring that I doubt it won't get blown off the ******* planet with Jin creating shockwaves that can cover entire planets as shown by his fight against Satan and his clones, bits of Ikki will be thrown literally miles apart from eachother and that is a massive lowball.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I can't, but I don't need too,

Welp first you argue about fire now this, ok fair let's leave this.

Ikki himself is the vapor with nothing to cling to other then it itself being a gas,

Yes, but that doesn't mean an average wind blows and he's gone. An average slice and he's in 2 now and can't reform right? Same reasoning.

if its hit with a shockwave, it will spread so far apart that its impossible for it to reform,

What's the difference between small and large in this case? Separation is separation. If it doesn't work on larger distances it won't work on smaller ones either.

ignoring that I doubt it won't get blown off the ******* planet with Jin creating shockwaves that can cover entire planets as shown by his fight against Satan and his clones, bits of Ikki will be thrown literally miles apart from eachother and that is a massive lowball.

Ah yes, let's argue again about something that Jin has never done right? Yetting gas off of the surface of the planet that is.

 

[Schnee_One]

<Yes, but that doesn't mean an average wind blows and he's gone. An average slice and he's in 2 now and can't reform right? Same reasoning.

There's wind, which does blow vapor, and then there's a planet destroying shockwave.

<if its hit with a shockwave, it will spread so far apart that its impossible for it to reform,

Same as above

<Ah yes, let's argue again about something that Jin has never done right? Yetting gas off of the surface of the planet that is.

His shockwaves are bigger then a planet, as shown by his fight against Satan, burden of proof is on you that Ikki's vapor will stay together and not disperse when he is hit with something of this caliber. Gas spreads, so you have to tell me how he will stay together.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

There's wind, which does blow vapor, and then there's a planet destroying shockwave.

So both would work? I guess ikki really can't go outside huh? Poor guy.

His shockwaves are bigger then a planet, as shown by his fight against Satan, burden of proof is on you that Ikki's vapor will stay together and not disperse when he is hit with something of this caliber. Gas spreads, so you have to tell me how he will stay together.

I can easily argue that with the fact that Ikki can completely control this vapor being himself. The point was the "yeeted off of earth" which jin has never done.

 

[Schnee_One]

No wind isn't strong enough to do disperse a gas miles apart.

<I can easily argue that with the fact that Ikki can completely control this vapor being himself.

Oh yes, please argue how he can control his vapor and hold himself together when he's hit by a planet sized shockwave from a 4B. Tell me how he will hold his vapor together when Jin can destroy planets with his shockwaves, argue this, lets see how many people will agree, I can already tell you how many. And thats assuming that his vapor won't be blown off the planet when Jin has the range and the AP to do that accidentally,

Jin has never shown it, doesn't need to, Ikki hasn't shows that he can keep himself from getting blown apart and Jin has the range to go outside the planet purely by accident.

Proof really isn't needed

Jin FRA, he kicks once and calls it a day