Ikki Kurogane vs Cole MacGrath

[Firephoenixearl]

Yes but as I said it works weirdly. Cus as I said people literally know it does nothing, see it does nothing, but it still works so...

 

[Schnee_One]

They don't see it as nothing though, they see it as being struck

When Stella saw Ikki slashing her from above vertically through her as if he was cutting her in half, that is conveyed as a clearly fatal strike, now yes that did nothing in actuality, but the strike itself would normally be fatal, and that's what convinced her.

For Stella it's "Oh shit, he's going to cut me in half" for Cole it's "Ow he impaled me, but I'm fine"

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

Plus, it's not like Cole can't come back from paralysis/status effect/etc just through streaming electricity to the effected body part (like he does when he fights or drains electricity) or maybe even adapting to it like he did to Sasha's tar and Kessler's mindhax

 

[Firephoenixearl]

They don't see it as nothing though, they see it as being struck
When Stella saw Ikki slashing her from above vertically through her as if he was cutting her in half, that is conveyed as a clearly fatal strike, now yes that did nothing in actuality, but the strike itself would normally be fatal, and that's what convinced her.

For Stella it's "Oh shit, he's going to cut me in half" for Cole it's "Ow he impaled me, but I'm fine"

That's the part you're getting wrong. Stella knew he would deal no damage. Cus she knows how phantom form works and she knows by rules Ikki had Phantom Form. There are also other cases where as Ikki states cutting an arm will render it immobile, even though you can literally see that your arm is perfectly fine.

So like im unsure here. What level is Cole's regen again? And can it be taxed with enough hits?

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Low mid and Im not sure....

 

[Schnee_One]

Low Mid, meaning regenerating from Heart Destruction.

It will only be overtaxed if he runs out of stamina, which he can replenish

 

[Firephoenixearl]

So ugh...Ikki just decapitates?

 

[Schnee_One]

When has he ever done that in character outside of his first fight with Stella which gets him instantly killed because he can't control his movements mid air making him an easy biodrain?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Sword attacks on the head are very common actually. And like "when has he ever done that" I mean ikki does go for incap in character when using phantom form. If you're going off of the anime it's not a good idea cus for most of the series (both selection battles and sssaf arc ikki was using material form cus those were the tournament rules).

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

But has he consistently always gone for the head with Phantom Form, like immediate decapatation?

 

[Schnee_One]

Not once

He even cuts the arm off one of the mercenaries that attacks him at the diner unless that's also anime only.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

That's what he always goes for incap/ lethal strikes. But given the info analysis and perfect vision the chances of a decap are enormous. I mean they are huge to begin with considering just about anything will strike the head. I'd have to re read his fights before the finals and his fights against the vermilion army for exact info but he does go for the head or decap

 

[Schnee_One]

Ikki using his info analysis for fighting styles does not at all translate to understanding a person's powers and abilities. He isn't glancing at Cole and realizing he can regenerate from anything that isn't cutting in half or Decapitation.

Ikki's only way of Decapitation is getting close and slicing specifically at his throat. If he doesn't nail this perfectly he gets biodrained.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Throwing his sword for a headshot is a win too. And that's exactly what he did against Daniel.

 

[Schnee_One]

A sword doesn't have the width to decapitate someone if it's thrown straight, unless he throws it in a circular motion.

Thinking about it I'm not even sure how he's going to decapitate him in a single strike. Hes not that far above Cole AP wise.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

What is the AP gap anyway? Cole scales to a casual 350 gigatons, but Ikki's calc scales to a casual 285, but it says High 6C+, is there another calc I'm missing?

Also, yeah probably not gonna instantly slice his head off with one strike due to comparable(?) AP. He survive getting clotheslined by a helicopter in a weakened state and getting rammed into by rampaging armored beasts, his necks pretty tough.

And headshot, do you mean throw his sword to embed it in his skull or throw it to cut his head off? Cause Cole can survive the former (via scaling to Kessler), but not the later.

 

[Schnee_One]

You can't technically throw a sword for a Decapitation unless you do a circular throwing knife Type toss

Tough how can he survive the former.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

Iirc, Kessler survived getting shot in the head by Zeke when he came in to try and save Cole. It would still count as Mid-Low since it didn't, like, blow part of his head off.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

I mean, Kessler seemed more annoyed than anything. I just assumed it didn't do anything.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I mean we are to assume Ikki is baseline as of right now (but he may get a tier downgrade later on due to the fact that i re read the series again and i assumed that he could at least marginally scale before, but he does it through sheer skill, the AP difference is enormous). But AP? Matters? I mean...Phantom Form literally goes through your body without resistance so why does that matter at all? But even then Ikki still has a sword and swords by nature have a form of dura neg (limited) due to slashing attacks.

@Schnee

Well headshot i meant literally he throws the sword and the sword just pierces Cole's skull and goes past it, and remember the handle will also go past it. That would fool Cole for sure.

 

[Schnee_One]

Phantom form goes through because of social inferencing that forces the opponent unconscious, here, it's debatable.

If Ikki is baseline, Cole is stronger by almost 4x, swords alone don't Dura beg to that extent.

Headshot probably would fool Cole, even though I don't know how you can fool someone by literally destroying their chain of thought.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yeah?

 

[Schnee_One]

Eh?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

What?

 

[Schnee_One]

Oh, I edited

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Phantom form goes through because of social inferencing that forces the opponent unconscious, here, it's debatable.
If Ikki is baseline, Cole is stronger by almost 4x, swords alone don't Dura beg to that extent.

Headshot probably would fool Cole, even though I don't know how you can fool someone by literally destroying their chain of thought.

You should have said you edited earlier but ok.

Yes cus Cole knows Ikki's 4x stronger and that Phantom Form doesn't deal physical damage. Phantom form fools stella who's so much above Ikki it's stupid. Like she's at base so strong she can crush all of Ikki's bones with a casual swing, then multiply it by 6x to include Stella's unconscious stat amps and gg, it still fooled her despite her knowing "his sword cannot damage me at all" and she had to put up a barrier to stop his base sword.

Wait im lost so you're saying the sword throw works or it doesn't? Im unsure whether you made a typo or sth. Cus i thought you were arguing it doesn't.

 

[Schnee_One]

I'm arguing it does, it's just I'm not sure how you can socially influence someone by destroying their brain

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Cus you don't destroy it.

As i said "it deals no physical damage" it literally phases through your body/brain. It just fools it. So ya voting ikki?

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

What stoping Cole from using blasts to deflect the sword? Or catch it with Kinetic Pulse? It's not like he can't deactivate Drain on a whim (he can shut down Ionic Storm as seen by cutscenes, so it should work with a user driven attack like Drain), and Precision only needs a thought to activate.

 

[Schnee_One]

Not like it matters since AP didn't matter much, but Ikki might get downgraded

 

[Creaturemaster971]

This sounds like a fight I would pay to watch.

Would there be a possibility of an inconclusive, seeing as the argument just kinda keeps going back and forth?

 

[The_Wright_Way]

I mean, the majority is still voting for Cole.

 

[Migue79]

And grace period ended, too. Not sure if that would still count tbh. But I'll let yous decide.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

I mean there were already seven votes for cole and nothing new has come up since then, as it is ikki has win cons I just find it far more likely cole gets his off before ikki gets lucky enough to take cole out. Nothing new has emerged from this discussion and it seems to be becoming circular, Im surprised no one has closed this and added it to the profiles.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Yeah, this can probably be requested.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

What stoping Cole from using blasts to deflect the sword? Or catch it with Kinetic Pulse? It's not like he can't deactivate Drain on a whim (he can shut down Ionic Storm as seen by cutscenes, so it should work with a user driven attack like Drain), and Precision only needs a thought to activate.

By the fact that he's using Ionic Drain. He won't be doing any of that during Ionic Drain.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I mean there were already seven votes for cole and nothing new has come up since then, as it is ikki has win cons I just find it far more likely cole gets his off before ikki gets lucky enough to take cole out. Nothing new has emerged from this discussion and it seems to be becoming circular, Im surprised no one has closed this and added it to the profiles.

The votes were cast WAY before we even learned that Ionic Drain is like 20 meters range. Considering new arguments were brought up, i would say the validity of the votes would be quite iffy, but that's just me.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Maybe but Im still voting cole and Im not sure if any of the new discussion has changed others opinions, most votes were based on coles range, and regen advantage...Those haven't really changed....Ionic drains more limited range doesn't really change much...

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Actually:

Range: Ionic Drain's new range is actually Ikki's range too. So it's not like Cole's outranging now.

Regen: Me and Schnee just agreed above that the regen gets bypassed.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

It gets bypassed by one of his moves if it hits cole in the correct area so its still a good advatage.

Range of ionic drain is within ikkis range but up till that range isn't cole going to be lambasting the area in lightining? While ikki can skill his way through Its still an advantage, though not a deciding one.

Eh Ill wait for others thoughts on if the previous vote should still count but for the moment still voting cole.