Ichibei vs Accelerator

[Reppuzan]

I'm just saying, their society sucks.

Ichibe simply made the biggest logical blunder in the entire series and could have ended the conflict in an instant, but didn't since the author needs to milk the series some more due to Shonen Jumpism and the fact that he does it for a living rather than to tell a good story.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

no, he really try, http://*********.com/Manga/Bleach/Bleach-609--A?id=215511 also anyhing that Yhwach see and know in the future he will understand them, so whatever you explained your ability or not it not matter to him.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

I'm just saying, their society sucks.
Ichibe simply made the biggest logical blunder in the entire series and could have ended the conflict in an instant, but didn't since the author needs to milk the series some more due to Shonen Jumpism and the fact that he does it for a living rather than to tell a good story.

So basically Madara did the same mistake, instead of destroying Black Zetsu who was not even revelant anymore, he died. Yeah, bad writting. And you just insulted a lot of people with that comment. I don't mind tho. xD

 

[Tivanenk]

What blunder? Everything was going good for Ichibei until Ywach pulled WTF-Almighty out of his rear and proceeded to counterhax Ichibei. Ichibei didn't make a mistake.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

How wise was he to not finish off Yhwach after the rest of his team got fodderized?

Show me a scan of Ichibei knowing that Yhwach could use a power like "the almighty" then your point may had worth something, for now is null. Is like KKappios alwasy argues on Bleach threads with a minimun knowledge of it. Is like looking at it on the internet and typing random stuff that make sence. If you drop the series don't expect to know everything about it. Do you know that all ninjas can now use all types of Ninjutsus? Yeah, why is that.

Bruh....

If you can't counteract my statements then don't writte things about me not knowing Bleach.I'm not claiming to be an expert but i have some good knowledge about it.

 

[GreatestSin]

Ichibe simply made the biggest logical blunder in the entire series and could have ended the conflict in an instant, but didn't since the author needs to milk the series some more due to Shonen Jumpism and the fact that he does it for a living rather than to tell a good story.

lets be fair, this isnt a problem of only bleach, basically any author who lengthens a story because it works really well does it

and guys lets stay on topic, so it goes like this (a far as i understood): since ichibei uses blackness which is a "concept" it cant be reflected by accel(at least not automatically, but this also only if he can analyze, a big if), and once i he is hit by ichibeis powers he will be finished unless he has some WTF-Almigthly poer like ywach ^_^

i go with ichibei

 

[Primaris_Brian]

not to mention Yhwach is already see all this event long before it happened, that why he say ichibei will died three steps in front of ichibei seal:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mYlSoKErhdE/VGWqmijLJoI/AAAAAAAAV8c/BHgK8NVYVpA/s16000/010.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1fngvdRe7yg/VJ2CacEna9I/AAAAAAAAbmY/wblDFTpv5jU/s16000/001.png

 

[Reppuzan]

Alright, I'll concede on this point. If I have a self-serving memory that's my fault (and the fault of Kubo's need to continue the story).

Regardless, I still don't see how Ichibe will touch Accelerator.

 

[GreatestSin]

Regardless, I still don't see how Ichibe will touch Accelerator.

didnt everyone agree that ichibei uses blackness which is a concept and therefore isnt something that involves vectors = not able to be manipulated by accelerator?

 

[Tivanenk]

So my final vote is for Ichibei, for reasons I have explained above. Black is a concept and it doesn't really have a vector to redirect, or at least one that Accel can redirect automatically. It's harmless to him just like light is, but once Accel is covered, Ichibei will devoid his name of any meaning. At that point, the win is Ichibei's. And since he has superior speed, he can pull it off.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

How wise was he to not finish off Yhwach after the rest of his team got fodderized?

Show me a scan of Ichibei knowing that Yhwach could use a power like "the almighty" then your point may had worth something, for now is null. Is like KKappios alwasy argues on Bleach threads with a minimun knowledge of it. Is like looking at it on the internet and typing random stuff that make sence. If you drop the series don't expect to know everything about it. Do you know that all ninjas can now use all types of Ninjutsus? Yeah, why is that.

Bruh....
If you can't counteract my statements then don't writte things about me not knowing Bleach.I'm not claiming to be an expert but i have some good knowledge about it.

Previous post: Lol ...what?

When did regular shinigami create cellphones and computers ,from what i remember some goodseated members couldn't bake a cake and the only ones that have good scientific knowledge are part of the research and development institute.

Naming things doesn't make one smart ,i could come up with names for pretty much anything and still wouldn't be smarter than the next guy.

The plan to fool Yhwach was nothing special and it required an unknown (but decent) amount of prep time.

Why didn't i counter them? Because nothing of what you said was revelant, almost the same things that i said. xD

-Cake is not canon, as it's members during that time.

-The "scientifics" are all fodder except for Mayuri and Ukitake.

-Can you proof Ichibei's doesn't need to know what a thing is before naming it and giving it is value? He is know for his winsdown for a reason.

-There's obvisoly no time frame and?

Basically is not that you don't know about it, is that you only counter with the same things i said.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

The Darkness Ichibei used seems to be a more solid version of Darkness (most fictions use it like it's a physical element or something and the depiction in bleach wasn't much different) so Accelerator should be able to use vectors on it.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

I actually kinda enjoy kubo nonsense, I mean in one of popular forum in my country we pretty much just enjoy to get constant supply of nonsense from kubo and we also like making a joke from those nonsense. and we also like to call kubo, lord kubo or something like that.

 

[Tivanenk]

Not at all. Yhwach couldn't shake it off or anything like that.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

Why didn't i counter them? Because nothing of what you said was revelant, almost the same things that i said. xD

-Cake is not canon, as it's members during that time.

-The "scientifics" are all fodder except for Mayuri and Ukitake.

-Can you proof Ichibei's doesn't need to know what a thing is before naming it and giving it is value? He is know for his winsdown for a reason.

-There's obvisoly no time frame and?

Basically is not that you don't know about it, is that you only counter with the same things i said.

Hmmm i'm not sure if the cake was canon or not but the people that tried to make it aren't

They are fodders that specialize in technology (also Urahara not Ukitake)

Ichibei didn't name everything in existance ,only things that had to do with the shinigami like Bankai etc.

Wisdom doesn't mean understanding of vectors or creating a good enough strategy to counter them , wisdom comes from experience and not studying a scientific fieald.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Please don't quote block of text guys

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

Sorry about that

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

Here Ichibei's darkness take a flame like appearance http://www.***********.net/bleach/608/15 which could indicate a more physical attribute.

Controlling the darkness to go in a certain direction would require vectors ,if that's not enough evidence i think i read somewhere that Accelerator can manipulate imaginary or non existant vectors (though i'm not sure about it)

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Hmmm i'm not sure if the cake was canon or not but the people that tried to make it aren't

They are fodders that specialize in technology (also Urahara not Ukitake)

Ichibei didn't name everything in existance ,only things that had to do with the shinigami like Bankai etc.

Wisdom doesn't mean understanding of vectors or creating a good enough strategy to counter them , wisdom comes from experience and not studying a scientific fieald.

-The cake was not canon, and the people who did it in that moment are not canon. Even if they do exist in the manga, that version of them isn't.

-Yeah, still fodder compare to other characters. Yeah, it was Urahara not Ukitake.

-He didn't name everything in existence. He just named everything in Soul Society which is a plane of existence and he is the first and leader of all the shinigami.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-DGTKquwgEK0/Utae_EMI77I/AAAAAAAA1YQ/G4rv34Dwjzw/s16000/010.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-G-J6WXfm7zU/Utae_w1AetI/AAAAAAAA1Yc/5eXWt6LZREo/s16000/011.png

-It doesn't, but how can the scientific field exist in Soul Society, if Ichibei didn't created it? How can he created something he doesn't know about. ;-;

 

[Reppuzan]

So my final vote is for Ichibei, for reasons I have explained above. Black is a concept and it doesn't really have a vector to redirect, or at least one that Accel can redirect automatically. It's harmless to him just like light is, but once Accel is covered, Ichibei will devoid his name of any meaning. At that point, the win is Ichibei's. And since he has superior speed, he can pull it off.

You clearly see the shadows moving in your scans, so it has velocity (speed + direction) which IS a vector.

He would have lost to Misaka if he was unable to affect non-physical objects.

 

[Tivanenk]

Ugh, once again, shadow is the abscence of light. When you move, your shadow moves with you. Does it mean that the shadow itself is moving? No, you're just preventing photons from affecting that area.

Last explanation, and I'm done with this thread.

 

[Reppuzan]

Actually... yes. It's taught in basic calculus how to calculate the speed of a shadow as someone moves in a certain direction. Speed + Direction = Velocity = Vector.

 

[Tivanenk]

Rate, not speed. Two completely different concepts.

 

[Reppuzan]

It's still measured in m/s, which is velocity in a nutshell.

 

[Tivanenk]

No one measures the speed of a shadow in Calculus. You can calculate the rate of growth, or rate of change in position, but not speed.

 

[Reppuzan]

It's a change of distance over time, which by definition is velocity.

Anything that moves has velocity. Since the shadows Ichibe uses move so...

 

[Tivanenk]

No it's not. It's a rate of change in position. It can be simplified to velocity in most cases, but not all. It's like quantum mechanics which can be simplified to classical physics in most cases.

 

[Reppuzan]

Fair enough, but can you say that Ichibe's shadows don't move?

 

[Tivanenk]

I cannot definitively say that. It's up to one's own personal interpretation.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

This match is irrevelant like i said above. Inconclusive. Neither can hit the other.

 

[DontTalk]

To the shadow thing: Lack of light can indeed not be refelected (that was even employed in an not canon crossover in to aru), but Ichibe's shadows are repeatedly described as ink and behave fluid like, which means they actually are different from for example Ichibe's or accelerators shadow once used.

As often with shadow manipulation techniques the properties of the shadows are changed once manipulated. One couldn't do any damage to something by "lack of light", in some way energy has to be infused to the shadows to make it so that they are tangible, can move objects and behave different from normal shadows. So even though the shadow as "lack of light" can not be redirect the shadow as "medium that is infused with power" can be, since it isn't just the lack of something, but actually the presence of some sort of energy/force/power.


But as said before I vote for inconclusive.

 

[Tivanenk]

Inconclusive is probably the safest bet.