Ichiban Ushiro no Daimaou CRT

[Ionliosite]

I personally don't see why "possibly 0" when how much TLOI is above the average Anti-Universe resident is unknown (she's technically above them due to a small scaling chain, but nothing that would have the qualitative superiority needed for 0).

 

[Overlord775]

^

You need to trascend High 1-As as much as these trascend 1-As to be Tier 0

 

[DarkLK]

I am not well informed enough to perform a proper analysis of this issue, but would appreciate input from the other participants here.
DarkLK might also be able to help.

The main problem here is not even that I don't remember much, but that I don't understand the current interpretation accepted here. But okay, I'll comment on something. You can agree or not, I probably will not argue.

"I could make it into any form, but I want to produce as few stories as possible."
"This really is your world."

"Yes, I suppose it is. What do you want to drink? I hadn't decided on that yet."

Akuto spoke casually and Hiroshi peered into the cup to find what had no form beyond being a liquid.

"Water. Carbonated water."

As soon as Hiroshi said that, the contents of the cup transformed into cold mineral water with bubbles inside.

"I see."

He drank the water and it refreshingly wet his throat.

"What does it feel like to be able to do anything?" he asked after taking a breath.

"It feels like arriving at the farthest reaches of biological pleasure," immediately replied Akuto.

Hiroshi smiled a bit.

"I've never felt that."

"No, you wouldn't have." Akuto smiled too. "But we stand on the same stage. We're probably the only ones who haven't become a concept."

"A concept?"

"You can't understand someone's personality just by looking at them, but now I can truly experience them. Even if other people's reactions are mechanical in nature, we have no way of determining it. What resides within me right now may be the countless personalities of all existing people."

"If a different object with the same name is placed in a box that only the individual can open, can conversation still be achieved?" asked Hiroshi. "If a foreign language dictionary has a sample greeting section and you communicate using that, can you still call it a conversation?"

Akuto looked amused.

"Yes. It definitely isn't like you to respond like that."

"While here, I am a synthesis of the concept of Brave," explained Hiroshi with a grin.

"I see. So a concept is a concept."

"I do understand what you're saying, though. The only ones given an incarnation in the Law of Identity's world are you and me. Wouldn't incarnation be the best term for being equal concepts before the creator? So in your world, the people inside are equally given an incarnation."

"I may be the creator here, but I don't feel like a God. What I can feel is that stories are binding us. Even when I create worlds, I am only free in which story I choose and to what degree I take that story. In the end, I want to destroy that and escape this world."
So the God of the world considers everyone below himself as a concept, and before the creator they are all equal. These apply to Akuto and his Afterlife world.

Akuto and Boichirou are the only creatures in the world of the Law of Identity, that is, in a completely different hierarchy.

Conceptual synthesis or incarnations, but for the Law of Identity, which obviously exceeds its world as well as Akuto does with his own world, even they are exactly the same concepts as the inhabitants of the Afterlife for Akuto himself.

This was similar to further universes being born within him.
The props used naturally extended beyond him.

In other words, even the extra-universal Gods became possibilities in the story.

As a result, all stories fell into chaos.
And you remember that in the world of Acto there were even stories about the extra-universal Gods.

Akuto fought with those extra-universal Gods a few times.

Sometimes he won.

A story was created in which Akuto attended an academy in an unnamed alternate world. He was dominated by Fujiko and he struggled to help her take over the world. It ended with Fujiko's world domination never coming to fruition and the two of them never even kissing. He finished testing that possibility.

Sometimes the extra-universal Gods won.
And within stories there was versions of Akuto himself, who fought the extra-universal Gods with varying success.

"I feel like I only came to understand myself once I saw the outside," agreed Akuto.
"But when you get down to it, even the extra-universal Gods are fictional. They merely cannot distinguish between God, mankind, and ghost. Only once you inform the higher being and create an enclosure within a single universe can you make a clear distinction between the three. That allows you to understand who it is you are inside."

Akuto thought about Bouichirou's analysis.

"Okay. That means I need to think about how to respond to that higher being," said Akuto. "I don't just want to save the beings inside me. I want to save all the beings inside the Law of Identity's universe. I want to free them from the stories. That is my wish."
Afterlife is basically a Demon of what the Anti-Universe should become. When all souls are saved. Residents should not become equal to God, they simply must cease to be philosophical zombies, that is, receive true free will. The whole story is basically about that.

That ritual brought both the stories and one's body down to zero and created a void. Creating that lower body known as a void body was the first step toward becoming a being not of this world.
It even noted that even the void body was only the first step.

As a result, we have that Akuto surpasses the inhabitants of his world to such an extent that they all (including the hierarchy of archetypal gods) are no more than the same concepts / incarnations before their Creator. And the Law of Identity surpasses him as a inhabitant of its own world to the same extent, since even in this world any hierarchy of stories can still be created, even if there are other hierarchies below it. Moreover, even the New Law of Identity must have such power. Although even if this applies only to Kena and her anti-universe, it should still be more than enough.

Good luck.

 

[Antvasima]

@DarkLK

Thank you for helping out. It is very appreciated.

 

[Siperri123]

More feats for Tloi

"Not even I know what our life will be like from now on."

"Hmm. Where we're going now is where all stories end. It is the place mankind will continue to strive for from now on."

She must have heard that from the Law of Identity because she did not seem to know what the words meant.

"The place mankind will continue to strive for from now on, hm?"

That eternal dream would likely remain within mankind thanks to the "light" stories. They would strive to reach that place where the lightness of stories finally reached zero.

A flesh-and-blood human had flown through space. Of course, the very fact that such a thing was possible may have meant she was not human, but that did not matter. What had descended to the surface of the moon was a truth that exceeded the truth of living creatures. Something great had descended there.

 

[Ionliosite]

I really don't see how Dark's argument is enough to be Tier 0. Basically, TLOI is still above the Anti-Universe residents because she is a god while they are just people, but that doesn't imply the infinite transcendence above High 1-A needed to become 0.

The main problem here is that the Anti-Universe is freed from all hierarchies of stories, since that's how the humans that were inside TLOI's story got freedom. And while you say that any hierarchy of stories can be created, which was the point behind Hiroshi becoming the New LOI at the end, these stories wouldn't bind the Anti-Universe residents into new stories, since they are already free from them.

And again, nothing implies the "infinite levels of transcendence" above the Anti-Universe mentioned on the profile. TLOI is indeed above them due to being a god while they aren't, but this doesn't automatically quote to transcending them in the same way as she already transcended stories, since that goes against the whole point of the Anti-Universe, which freeing people from such hierarchies.

And nothing of what Siperri said is a feat on the scale we're talking at all, so that's pretty much irrelevant.

 

[Maxnumb231]

The requirement to be tier is surpassing high 1-A in the same manner high 1-A transcend 1-As. None of Darks and Siperris description fit anything that puts TLOI at tier 0. If TLOI is in the same existence as akuto doesnt matter whether shes superior does not mean TLOI is tier 0 automatically.

 

[Antvasima]

So she should be downgraded to High 1-A then?

 

[Antvasima]

It might be best to ask DontTalkDT and Matthew first though.

 

[Ionliosite]

So she should be downgraded to High 1-A then?

Yes, that's my proposal. I'll contact DT and Matt to see what they think.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks.

 

[Siperri123]

Yes, that's my proposal. I'll contact DT and Matt to see what they think.

You don't even understand the cosmology, what's there to argue here ?.

 

[Maxnumb231]

rather than being sarcastic why dont you prove that TLOI surpasses akuto or NLOI in the same way high 1-A transcends 1-A? none of your quotes supports TLOI being tier 0, sure she's above everyone in the anti universe but none of the quotes prove a transcendance that will fit tier 0 at all, if anything based ON any of the evidences the transcendance over akuto isnt impressive at all.

 

[Ionliosite]

You don't even understand the cosmology, what's there to argue here ?.

If anything, it's you who don't understand it, given you have contribued nothing of value to this thread, unlike Matthew, who gave us pretty good reasonings behind the 1-A rating, and DT, who has constantly shown quotes that actually support his claims. So their oppinion is totally needed here.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

>Masada

>High 1-A Cosmology

Oh Lord the wank is at it again.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I had no idea they did wank this severe on that series. Every single profile is High 1-A. This is hilarious and pathetic at the same time.

 

[Ionliosite]

Matthew, instead of being salty about Shinza, can you please give your input on this subject?

 

[Nepuko]

Sigh.

 

[Maxnumb231]

Matthew instead of derailing and mentioning a topic that is out of reach why not contribute to this matter? if you do doubt a verse's rating why dont you justify your explanations to why u believe it is to be the case? this is literally childish behavior coming out of you buddy

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It's not derail, it's just showing the immense bias that this wiki has for Masada. Coming from people who don't even read the setting.

 

[Maxnumb231]

it is in fact derailing, in fact you mentioned masadaverse out of nowehre and nothing of sorts that helps out Daimous strongest character's tier... If you do HAVE something against another verse why dont u message wall t hem and complain what your suspicion is instead of coming at people sneakingly without trying to message them on their message wall. If you do have something against the verse go talk to ALRF or raven who read the series as awhole.

 

[PairusDragonoid]

Or go to the respective threads/respects/blogs or create one to talk about whether or not such a scale is good instead of coming to a completely foreign topic to talk and divert what is currently converging.

the other one like "bias"...wel.., is too much when this can applied to many works equally (even the most famous).

___

For Daimaou, i read time ago that the original idiom have a lot of information, terminologiin the verse that the English traduction misses, so, some vital points, explanations may be have or is more deep, the context is better and "explanatory" (if this is the word) and can realy go high, butthis i read time ago and i dont know if this is true or even real, but can happen.

 

[GLHF22]

I have a suggestion, The explanation page should be noted in her profile, so in the future no one will make a thread like this, and thats also will makes her tier become more solid, as how Masadaverse have Taiji and general concepts of the verse or how Most of the verse that have Outerversal Character in it have their own explanation page.

This verse literaly have no blog listed in the profile or even in the Verse Page.

 

[Ionliosite]

There's no reasong for there to be an explanation page for TLOI's profile, the one for the verse that we're working on is enough.

 

[Antvasima]

@Matthew

What do you think about the suggested TLOI rating?

 

[SleepyTBubble]

I am hurt ensive:

 

[Ravenous4th]

And so am I. ensive:

 

[Lavtop]

TLOI shouldn't be T0 according to the tiering system

 

[Nepuko]

And Fabs, and Dys, and Sera, and Ultima, and the scans ensive:

 

[GLHF22]

There's no reasong for there to be an explanation page for TLOI's profile, the one for the verse that we're working on is enough.

Oh my.. isnt you have to presenting the blog first before makes the change? Since you yourself said that the blog in here is moot because in the blog OP post only show a high 1-B not 1-A.

 

[Ionliosite]

Oh my.. isnt you have to presenting the blog first before makes the change? Since you yourself said that the blog in here is moot because in the blog OP post only show a high 1-B not 1-A.

We haven't even started making the blog, that was the point we were trying to make a couple of days ago before this thread was derailed. And blog in the OP is explaining the terminology of the verse, so it isn't moot at all.

 

[Lavtop]

What is the reason why that moderator named Matthew made fun of us without answering? It's because this is an old thread?

 

[Ionliosite]

No, he just disagrees with Shinza Banshou being High 1-A, that's all. Anyways, stop derailing.

 

[DarkLK]

I really don't see how Dark's argument is enough to be Tier 0. Basically, TLOI is still above the Anti-Universe residents because she is a god while they are just people, but that doesn't imply the infinite transcendence above High 1-A needed to become 0.
The main problem here is that the Anti-Universe is freed from all hierarchies of stories, since that's how the humans that were inside TLOI's story got freedom. And while you say that any hierarchy of stories can be created, which was the point behind Hiroshi becoming the New LOI at the end, these stories wouldn't bind the Anti-Universe residents into new stories, since they are already free from them.

This is not even what my point is based on. You can generally forget about the anti-universe.

This does not negate the fact that the highest version of the Afterlife Acto considers all the creatures of his world as ordinary concepts (including an infinite hierarchy of 1-A gods) that are so much lower than their creator that they are equal before him. And he himself is exactly the same for TLOI, as he is the usual concept/incarnation within her own world. This is still even before the Anti-Universe.

 

[Ionliosite]

And again, that's BEFORE the Anti-Universe, so before there is any other High 1-A on the setting, so it doesn't really matter. Akuto being totally and absolutely above everything below him, being beyond the scope of all stories he created, is what grants him the 1-A rating on the first place, not High 1-A. So yeah, that still doesn't prove TLOI is infinitely above the Anti-Universe.

 

[DarkLK]

Hierarchy of stories < hierarchy of Extra-universal Gods (1-A) < Akuto (high 1-A) <<(to the same extent as he surpasses all other creatures of his world)<< TLOI

This is what I said.

 

[Ionliosite]

Afterlife Akuto Sai is rated as 1-A, not High 1-A, so that argument holds no water.

 

[DarkLK]

Oh, and TLOI is rated as 0, soooo... Are you serious?

 

[Ionliosite]

TLOi is rated as 0, that's literally my point.

 

[DarkLK]

And my point is above. Yes, I said that Afterlife TLOI world Akuto is high 1-A due to his transcending Extra-Universel Gods hierarchy. You can agree or not, change tiers or not. This is no longer my jurisdiction. It seems there are a few more people who are familiar with the Daimaou-verse. DontTalkDT and Matthew I think. Maybe they will advise something else.