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I DON'T EVEN LIKE CHICKEN WINGS

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The_Smashor

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HELLO VERSUS BATTLES WIKI. NEVER DID I THINK I'D FIND A GAGGLE OF PEOPLE WHO ARE SOMEHOW ALL BIGGER NERDS THAN PINE TREE. I SEE YOU'VE ALL WOKEN UP AND FIGURED OUT HOW STRONG I ACTUALLY AM. TOOK YOU LONG ENOUGH. NOW THAT ONE MISTAKE MADE BY A GAGGLE OF NERDS HAS BEEN CORRECTED, HOW ABOUT A SECOND ONE? OR NOT, I'M NOT YOUR DAD. YET.

...That was weird. Anyways, I noticed Bill and Sephiroth are the same tier and I can't think of any extreme advantage that would make this a blatant stomp off the top of my head.

Rules: Speed equalized. Physical Form Bill vs Advent Children Sephiroth. Both are aware they're fighting a genuine threat to them but have no specific prior knowledge. Otherwise SBA.

Bill Cipher:

Sephiroth: 3 (Jesterofgames, Mariogoods, FireSwordHero)

Inconclusive:
 
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I'm gonna say Sephrioth probably. Sure law manipulation and the like is nothing to sniff at. but a lot of other bills opening moves Sephiroth Kinda negates. While Bill doesn't seem to be able to resist time manipulation. So nothing really stops sephiorth from using stop and beating Bill. Espeically with spirit absorption and destruction something Bill can't resist.

Bill effectivly needs to open up optimully. But Against time baby who he sees as a threat he opened up with a massive blast. And he doesn't typically use law manipulation or his other more overt reality warping powers as an opener. While Sephiroth can open up with just about anything and it will affect bill.
 
I would say Sepiroth wins this. Both character profiles are fuckoff massive so im not going to go full descriptive, but lets break it down into smaller parts.

  1. Sephiroths many, MANY resistances make a significant number of Bill's abilites useless, in particular the ones related to Bill's Soul Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Transmutation/Petrification, and BFR. Bill also can't use his precog on Sephiroth due to the latters Acausality as well.
  2. Likewise Bill hasn't demonstrated resistances to anything Sephiroth can do, so he could probably be vulnerable to Sephiroth's own abilities such as Septhiroth's own time manipulation and other abilities.
  3. I was going to say here that Bill wouldn't take Sephiroth seriously at first due to looking human, but then I saw the matchup and realised it wouldnt work for this. Still though, with Sephiroths Illusion powers being quite powerful, I could see him using them to confuse or distract Bill, or make him pretend he died, allowing Bill to drop his guard (partially due to his ego).
Bill does have a few small advantages, so i figure I should mention them here

  1. Even if AP was equal at the beginning, Bill's Wierdmageddon means he gets stronger overtime
  2. Has a few abilites Sephiroth can't exist such as Law manip, though its a bit questionable since its quite in character for Bill to use it in actual combat.
  3. Can ignore durability with energy blasts, though Sephiroth can create barriers to block them and can absorb energy.
All that being said, aside from the AP increase and the Durability Negating blasts, Bill doesn't have the overwhelming advantage here.

There's also the issue of each characters personality to consider. Both are egotistical and both have a sense of superiority, but I would say Sephiroth also takes this in this regard, mainly due to the fact that when Bill believes he is superior, he often lets his guard down, and while Sephiroth's plans did fail, this was mainly due to the fact that Cloud was aided by allies and forces outside of Sephiroth's control, and the fact that Cloud was comparable in power to Sephiroth. In short, Sephiroth managed to carry out his plan, and would have likely won had it not been for said prior factors, while Bill lets his guard down during the last possible moment and got his triangle ass handed to him because of it.

Of course, there's also the Bill Immortality thing, but given that Sephiroth can harm and destroy souls and Bill's soul self can be destroyed, its not a big factor here, since Sephiroth can destroy bill's spirit and leave his body a husk.

So yeah, Sephiroth wins this more often than not.
 
BILL STILL HAS REVISIONS

And they are important, so wait for that
 
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Is the CRT helping Bill enough to turn the table?

With at least three users with Bill's avatar supporting this CRT, it is hard to believe that it is not a wk.
 
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I had a look at the revisions, and while there are some improvements/nerfs for the triangle man, it doesn't change any of what I said nor influences the verdict in any major way. Sephiroth resists most of Bill's abilites, the only one he can't are is the same one Bill doesn't use actively, and Sephiroth can destroy Bill despite the latters immortality by targeting his soul. Bill may have immortality and the ability to regenerate his body and soul, but there's nothing to suggest he can he can survive complete soul destruction.
 
FireSwordHero said:
I had a look at the revisions, and while there are some improvements/nerfs for the triangle man, it doesn't change any of what I said nor influences the verdict in any major way. Sephiroth resists most of Bill's abilites, the only one he can't are is the same one Bill doesn't use actively, and Sephiroth can destroy Bill despite the latters immortality by targeting his soul. Bill may have immortality and the ability to regenerate his body and soul, but there's nothing to suggest he can he can survive complete soul destruction.
Click to expand...
Sephirpoth cannot attack Bills soul because it has NEP. Does he have any feats showing he can affect NEP?
 
ShionAH said:
Sephirpoth cannot attack Bills soul because it has NEP. Does he have any feats showing he can affect NEP?
Click to expand...
That's still only within the mindscape. In his incarnated form he can be hurt, and has been shown being damaged by conventional means.

Also the type of NEP bill has doesn't make him immune to harm. He has been shown to be hurt in the mindscape, where he is technically more of a spirit than a non existeny being, given that the likes of Dipper and Mabel can hurt him there. So Sephiroth should be able to do the same, especially when Bill is in his physical form.
 
FireSwordHero said:
That's still only within the mindscape. In his incarnated form he can be hurt, and has been shown being damaged by conventional means.
Click to expand...
Yes. His body gets hurt
FireSwordHero said:
Also the type of NEP bill has doesn't make him immune to harm. He has been shown to be hurt in the mindscape, where he is technically more of a spirit than a non existeny being, given that the likes of Dipper and Mabel can hurt him there. So Sephiroth should be able to do the same, especially when Bill is in his physical form.
Click to expand...
Dipper and Mabel when they enter the Mindscape have extreme reality warping which is why they can do stuff they cannot do irl. Unless Sephiroth can enter Mindscape he wouldnt be able to interact with Bills Soul and Mind.
 
FireSwordHero said:
Also the type of NEP bill has doesn't make him immune to harm. He has been shown to be hurt in the mindscape, where he is technically more of a spirit than a non existeny being, given that the likes of Dipper and Mabel can hurt him there. So Sephiroth should be able to do the same, especially when Bill is in his physical form.
Click to expand...
They were able to harm him only because of them being in the mindscape state as well, as when Dipper was in the mindscape form in the real world, no one would touch or see him.

So quit with the dishonesty, thanks.
 
FireSwordHero said:
I had a look at the revisions, and while there are some improvements/nerfs for the triangle man, it doesn't change any of what I said nor influences the verdict in any major way. Sephiroth resists most of Bill's abilites, the only one he can't are is the same one Bill doesn't use actively, and Sephiroth can destroy Bill despite the latters immortality by targeting his soul. Bill may have immortality and the ability to regenerate his body and soul, but there's nothing to suggest he can he can survive complete soul destruction.
Click to expand...
Sephiroth does not directly target the soul with his attacks. This is Sephiroth's spirit taking away another spirit. This is Sephiroth's soul fighting another soul, so not directly hurting the spirit
 
FireSwordHero said:
That's still only within the mindscape. In his incarnated form he can be hurt, and has been shown being damaged by conventional means.
Click to expand...
ShionAH said:
Yes. His body gets hurt
Click to expand...
I was saying that in regards to the fact that Bill, when in the real world, can be interacted with, which also includes his soul, meaning Sephiroth can damage and destroy Bill's soul when in the real world. Just because Bill's spirit is (hypothetically) untouchable in the mindscape, does not mean it applies here.

ShionAH said:
Dipper and Mabel when they enter the Mindscape have extreme reality warping which is why they can do stuff they cannot do irl. Unless Sephiroth can enter Mindscape he wouldnt be able to interact with Bills Soul and Mind.
Click to expand...
... Actually, fair enough. Bill isn't exactly a ghost and can't exist outside the mindscape unless he can make a deal. Sephiroth could maybe go to the mindscape since Sephiroth can seperate his spirit from his body, but that would be too dubious to make an arguement for. That being said, If Sephiroth could enter the mindscape, I still think he would be able to harm Bill, since I still think the NEP bill hasn't doesnt make him untargetable, and Sephiroth has been shown/stated to interact with and harm spirits.

All that being said, this NEP dissappears the moment he comes out of the mindscape and is incarnated into the real world. Once that happens, all bets are off and Bill's soul can be targeted and destroyed like any other physical being, since Ford's Quantum Destabilizer would have destroyed both Bill's body and soul had he had actual aiming skills. Bill's soul isnt separated from his body when he's in the real world, unless decides to exit his physical form.

StrymULTRA said:
They were able to harm him only because of them being in the mindscape state as well, as when Dipper was in the mindscape form in the real world, no one would touch or see him.

So quit with the dishonesty, thanks.
Click to expand...
Rude and go **** yourself, but whatever. The mindscape isnt what I was focusing on anyways, its Bill's physical form i was focusing on.

Still it doesn't mean I'm wrong. Bill's NEP doesn't make him invincible and Sephiroth can harm spirits, its just that in this case Bill in his mindscape form exists on a plane Sephiroth has no method of reaching by himself.
Hypertornado099 said:
Sephiroth does not directly target the soul with his attacks. This is Sephiroth's spirit taking away another spirit. This is Sephiroth's soul fighting another soul, so not directly hurting the spirit
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
All these factors I mentioned show that Sephiroth can target and damage the soul should he desire to, and its not limited to any particular spell/ability/attack Sephiroth has, its something he can do himself.
 
FireSwordHero said:
Still it doesn't mean I'm wrong. Bill's NEP doesn't make him invincible and Sephiroth can harm spirits, its just that in this case Bill in his mindscape form exists on a plane Sephiroth has no method of reaching by himself.
Click to expand...
NEP 3 makes the user still immune to attacks against it given its paradoxial state, meaning that if Sephiroth has soul/mind attacks they won't work.
 
StrymULTRA said:
NEP 3 makes the user still immune to attacks against it given its paradoxial state, meaning that if Sephiroth has soul/mind attacks they won't work.
Click to expand...
Again, this only works because Bill, at least when not in the physical world, exists soley in the mindscape, where Sephiroth can't reach him.

And AGAIN, it really doesn't matter because Bill loses it upon entering the Real World.
 
It does not though? The mindscape state works as Bill's mind/soul, given it just overlapped to it (which is why he has Low Godly regen). Heck, this is why he died, because Ford targetted his Mindscape state after it came out of his body and went inside Stanley's mind.
 
FireSwordHero said:
Again, this only works because Bill, at least when not in the physical world, exists soley in the mindscape, where Sephiroth can't reach him.

And AGAIN, it really doesn't matter because Bill loses it upon entering the Real World.
Click to expand...
Bill loses his mind and soul upon entering the World? What the hell do you mean?

Bill only gains a physical form which can be hurt yes but his true "form" which is his mindscape form (soul and mind) are still NEP
 
FireSwordHero said:
Ford's Quantum Destabilizer would have destroyed both Bill's body and soul had he had actual aiming skills.
Click to expand...
You are talking about a weapon designed by an EG that researched Bill for years, traveled the entire multiverse to build it, commit several space-time crimes to gain important aspects of the weapon just so it can likely kill Bill

Like the gun was literally made to counter Bill so its not a good point
 
FireSwordHero said:
All these factors I mentioned show that Sephiroth can target and damage the soul should he desire to, and its not limited to any particular spell/ability/attack Sephiroth has, its something he can do himself.
Click to expand...
I just addressed them. All of them are not him directly targeting the soul but rather fighting spirits in the lifestream, and all of them are done by Sephiroth's spirit, not his physical body
 
Jesterofgames said:
I'm gonna say Sephrioth probably. Sure law manipulation and the like is nothing to sniff at. but a lot of other bills opening moves Sephiroth Kinda negates. While Bill doesn't seem to be able to resist time manipulation. So nothing really stops sephiorth from using stop and beating Bill. Espeically with spirit absorption and destruction something Bill can't resist.
Click to expand...
Bill has now NEP 3 on Mind/Soul/Energy, meaning thar this is completely null now.

Plus Sephiroth doesn't have Low Godly Negation nor seems to resist Transmutation, meaning that after Bill realizes that just blasting him wouldn't be enough (if Sephi having Mid Godly Regen is correct) then he simply transmutes and gg.
 
Sephiroth
StrymULTRA said:
Bill has now NEP 3 on Mind/Soul/Energy, meaning thar this is completely null now.

Plus Sephiroth doesn't have Low Godly Negation nor seems to resist Transmutation, meaning that after Bill realizes that just blasting him wouldn't be enough (if Sephi having Mid Godly Regen is correct) then he simply transmutes and gg.
Click to expand...
sephiroth resisits transmutation though. So his other hax are a better argument.
 
StrymULTRA said:
In which key? I didn't find it.
Click to expand...
Final fantasy 7 resistances. to quote the page " Status Effect Inducement which includes Paralysis Inducement, Blindness, Poison Manipulation, Sleep Inducement, Madness Manipulation, Transmutation, Petrification, Silence Inducement, Curse Manipulation, Power Nullification (of magical, mental, spiritual and physical abilities)"
That's why I mentioned law manipulation in the original post. Since it's Bills biggest and most threatening hax that Sephiroth can't do anything about.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Incapacitated through what? AP? Because his 2-A stuff is casual to him and he gets stronger by the minute as well.
Click to expand...
also they weren't arguing Sephiroth incaps. They where saying if Sepiroth has no way to Incap or beat Bill this is a stomp for Bill.
 
Jesterofgames said:
That's why I mentioned law manipulation in the original post. Since it's Bills biggest and most threatening hax that Sephiroth can't do anything about.
Click to expand...
What about the madness hax? Given Bill can both do that and even completely paralyze minds.
Jesterofgames said:
also they weren't arguing Sephiroth incaps. They where saying if Sepiroth has no way to Incap or beat Bill this is a stomp for Bill.
Click to expand...
Oke.
 
StrymULTRA said:
What about the madness hax? Given Bill can both do that and even completely paralyze minds.
Click to expand...
the former probably. Since Sephiroth resists Madness manipulation, AND resists the life stream which erodes the mind away which Sephiroth resists. It's how he remains alive. Not sure about the latter.
 
Jesterofgames said:
the former probably. Since Sephiroth resists Madness manipulation, AND resists the life stream which erodes the mind away which Sephiroth resists. It's how he remains alive. Not sure about the latter.
Click to expand...
So Bill just makes him a vegetable then?

Well F then.
 
Then Sephiroth's only method of hurting him would be Supernova which he would use as a last resort, only after Bill starts becoming invulnerable to his attacks by reforming his physical body or using his spirit form to fight
 
Depends though, how much does Sepiroth scale in 2-A? Not that you're wrong, but if that's still around baseline 2-A then it'd barely hurt him lol.
 
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