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Medaka Kurokami VS Ditto (Pokémon).
5-C Version of Medaka with Hero restricted. Not sure about All-Fiction.
5-C Version of Medaka with Hero restricted. Not sure about All-Fiction.
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I am legit surprised this hasn't happened before. Medaka VS Ditto
- Thread starter Vizorus69
- Start date
- 82
- 8
Ditto is a weird being, especially if we're bringing it outside of the Pokemon world. For convenience sake, we'll assume Ditto's got Imposter for its ability, and it transforms right off the bat.
When Ditto transforms, it copies all its opponent's stats. This includes speed, defense, attack, but I'm not sure about HP. More research will be needed. But otherwise, comparing stats here would be a waste of time, since they'd be the same.
However, attacks is what's most confusing. In the Pokemon games, a transformed Ditto can use all 4 of the opponent's attacks, but only 5 times each (unless it can restore its PP). What if the opponent has a variety of attacks? I don't want to dismiss this as simple game mechanics, though.
And Medaka has... a huge variety of attacks and skills. A few are Kurokami Phantom, the Proper version of it, Kurokami Hip Attack, Kurokami Open Blow, and skills known as Abnormalities. Abnormalities include Encounter (placing your pain into another person), Unknown Hero (she becomes undetectable if she wishes), Book Maker (impales the opponent with a screw, decreasing their prowess), and Weighted Words (forcing an opponent to obey your commands).
The question is: How much can Ditto copy? 4 attacks, like in the pokemon games? What if there's a large variety of skills? Because of the Pokemon games' nature, it's unknown Ditto's true potential. However, he does have one weakness; Ditto probably can't copy intelligence, and Medaka's really smart.
In conclusion, Medaka would likely win. While it's plausible Ditto could learn all the opponent's attacks, it probably wouldn't use them as effectively as Medaka. My vote's for Medaka.
When Ditto transforms, it copies all its opponent's stats. This includes speed, defense, attack, but I'm not sure about HP. More research will be needed. But otherwise, comparing stats here would be a waste of time, since they'd be the same.
However, attacks is what's most confusing. In the Pokemon games, a transformed Ditto can use all 4 of the opponent's attacks, but only 5 times each (unless it can restore its PP). What if the opponent has a variety of attacks? I don't want to dismiss this as simple game mechanics, though.
And Medaka has... a huge variety of attacks and skills. A few are Kurokami Phantom, the Proper version of it, Kurokami Hip Attack, Kurokami Open Blow, and skills known as Abnormalities. Abnormalities include Encounter (placing your pain into another person), Unknown Hero (she becomes undetectable if she wishes), Book Maker (impales the opponent with a screw, decreasing their prowess), and Weighted Words (forcing an opponent to obey your commands).
The question is: How much can Ditto copy? 4 attacks, like in the pokemon games? What if there's a large variety of skills? Because of the Pokemon games' nature, it's unknown Ditto's true potential. However, he does have one weakness; Ditto probably can't copy intelligence, and Medaka's really smart.
In conclusion, Medaka would likely win. While it's plausible Ditto could learn all the opponent's attacks, it probably wouldn't use them as effectively as Medaka. My vote's for Medaka.
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Ditto copies all of Medaka's stats with the exception of Health which is sort of durability. Also Ditto can carry over Medaka's stat changes so long it's directly her own Statistics Amplification and not due to outside help like items, Though that would only work if Medaka stat amps before Ditto transforms into her.
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Stats are really useless here. The main point is, what does Ditto do against her hax? She's in 5-C tier for this match (and she's the strongest 5-C btw). So she thinks and ditto never existed. Can he do anything against that? Also is the copy instant?
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Its pure NLF to assume ditto can copy medaka's hax, and with 4ms distance he cannot copy, as he needs to see the enemy to use it
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Medaka screams NLF and punts Ditto across the horizon with All-Fiction
Wokistan
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For once Medaka is the one rejecting an NLF ability
Oh how the tables have turned
Fairly certain that Ditto copying stuff like the Poke-Gods isn't within the context of this wiki considered canon, and as such has no real showings of being able to mimic someone who has a powerset like Medaka. She wins, if its not a stomp.
Oh how the tables have turned
Fairly certain that Ditto copying stuff like the Poke-Gods isn't within the context of this wiki considered canon, and as such has no real showings of being able to mimic someone who has a powerset like Medaka. She wins, if its not a stomp.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Ditto wins because it's a pokemon. Pokemon are basically wild animals, and therefore will be willing to go for the kill much sooner then Medaka will. No it's not NLF to assume Ditto can copy all of Medaka's abilities, because Ditto can copy the literal God of pokemon. Also the 4 move slot limit is considered game mechanics here. The only thing Ditto won't copy is Medaka's personalitity, meaning Ditto will All Fiction as soon as possible. In-character Medaka will go for CQC first and hax dead last, emphasis on the dead.
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We do not count ditto copying arceus as canon, sorry. And ditto does not act like a bloodlusted animal at all.
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Ninja'd, and said god has no plot
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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What are you on about?Kaltias said:
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Apies....u said Pokemon are wild animals right? Medaka wins via incap then. Animals fear Medaka's existence due to Alpha Presence, they would never dare to fight her. That apparently counts as incap.
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Ditto either becomes a loyal pokemon or a fearful animal running for its life due to alpha presence
Edit: Ninja'd
Edit: Ninja'd
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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I swear I'm never gonna understand how this site does pokemon. Alright, whatever. Have fun, I'm out.Ricsi-viragosi said:
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It makes no sense as far as lore goes.ApiesDeathbyLazors said:
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So....this gonna be closed?
This is basically Medaka vs Nihilus all over again....but without The Hero.
This is basically Medaka vs Nihilus all over again....but without The Hero.
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The problem with Ditto is well.... Generally, it's basically an inferior version of whatever it copies. Unless it's copying someone with a naturally terrible-for-combat mental ability &/or equipment that makes Ditto's opponent do worse as themself than Ditto will, Ditto often has a few disadvantages....
Without Impostor, it loses opportunity time transforming, during which it can get its amorphous butt kicked. Slightly less so with Quick &/or Metal Powder.
Once it is Transformed, it may not have copied HP/Stamina, & it copies specifically via genetics & cellular structure, according to the Pokedex. It's not even perfect once it IS transformed:
"Its transformation ability is perfect. However, if made to laugh, it can't maintain its disguise."
"It can reconstitute its entire cellular structure to change into what it sees, but it returns to normal when it relaxes."
If Medaka has some way of learning of an opponent's weakness -does she have such an ability?-, she makes Ditto laugh itself to de-transformation & THEN kicks its butt. At least it dies laughing?
Obviously, Ditto will know how to use her powers, but it clearly won't share her psyche. Her memories is questionale, & her equipment as well.
Given that in mind, I'd say Medaka can Medaka better than Ditto can Medaka. Best case scenario seems like after some fighting, Ditto dies laughing.... Shame we won't be able to see what might amuse it.
Assuming this isn't a stomp, since Ditto just has several disadvantages, I'm voting Medaka, Medium Difficulty.
Without Impostor, it loses opportunity time transforming, during which it can get its amorphous butt kicked. Slightly less so with Quick &/or Metal Powder.
Once it is Transformed, it may not have copied HP/Stamina, & it copies specifically via genetics & cellular structure, according to the Pokedex. It's not even perfect once it IS transformed:
"Its transformation ability is perfect. However, if made to laugh, it can't maintain its disguise."
"It can reconstitute its entire cellular structure to change into what it sees, but it returns to normal when it relaxes."
If Medaka has some way of learning of an opponent's weakness -does she have such an ability?-, she makes Ditto laugh itself to de-transformation & THEN kicks its butt. At least it dies laughing?
Obviously, Ditto will know how to use her powers, but it clearly won't share her psyche. Her memories is questionale, & her equipment as well.
Given that in mind, I'd say Medaka can Medaka better than Ditto can Medaka. Best case scenario seems like after some fighting, Ditto dies laughing.... Shame we won't be able to see what might amuse it.
Assuming this isn't a stomp, since Ditto just has several disadvantages, I'm voting Medaka, Medium Difficulty.
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Imaginym said:
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Doesn't Standard Battle Assumptions state that combatants are willing to kill one another? I'm unsure who's more able, but is there a precedent for how we have that & Alpha Presence interact together?
Site rules suggest Ditto is willing to fight. If it did retreat, I'd say that's a loss, but still.
Also, technically, our site disagrees with you about her equipment:
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Medaka_Kurokami
Standard Equipment: A variety of hidden weapons thanks to hidden weapon technique (which includes knives, katanas, staves, grenades, guns and a bazooka), possibly Unzen's rumble balls.
What's the reason she'd lose to a copy of herself?
Is the same true for why she'd lose to a copy with inferior durability/stamina (Ditto keeping its own HP?) that de-transforms if it relaxes or laughs too much?
Site rules suggest Ditto is willing to fight. If it did retreat, I'd say that's a loss, but still.
Also, technically, our site disagrees with you about her equipment:
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Medaka_Kurokami
Standard Equipment: A variety of hidden weapons thanks to hidden weapon technique (which includes knives, katanas, staves, grenades, guns and a bazooka), possibly Unzen's rumble balls.
What's the reason she'd lose to a copy of herself?
Is the same true for why she'd lose to a copy with inferior durability/stamina (Ditto keeping its own HP?) that de-transforms if it relaxes or laughs too much?
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Fear induction does not get countered by that, the characters qualms about killing others is the only thing changed.
HP is game mechanics too
HP is game mechanics too
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Because willing to kill doesn't make them bloodlusted. It just gives them the ability to go for the kill if they would avoid it usually. And Medaka will most likely never use All Fiction to insta delete her opponent. She is too good of a naure.
Alpha Presence has nothing to do with willing to kill or not. We can make this bloodlusted and Alpha Presence would STILL work. As i said they fear Medaka, they fear her existence, she is too perfect, they would never take on such an enemy. Fear has nothing to do with whether someone is willing to kill or not.
Those are lame weapons xD. Katanas, knives, staves, granades? Yes Munakata's skill allows her to almost literally make them appear out of thin air. But comparing those to the ability to erase concepts from at least a universal+ space from every timeline is yeah... . Medaka doesn't need any of those weapons to do her skills, and she is the strongest 5-C "because" of those skills.
Back to my point, this is a stomp. The fight would never start as Ditto would be too scared to take Medaka on in a fight.
Alpha Presence has nothing to do with willing to kill or not. We can make this bloodlusted and Alpha Presence would STILL work. As i said they fear Medaka, they fear her existence, she is too perfect, they would never take on such an enemy. Fear has nothing to do with whether someone is willing to kill or not.
Those are lame weapons xD. Katanas, knives, staves, granades? Yes Munakata's skill allows her to almost literally make them appear out of thin air. But comparing those to the ability to erase concepts from at least a universal+ space from every timeline is yeah... . Medaka doesn't need any of those weapons to do her skills, and she is the strongest 5-C "because" of those skills.
Back to my point, this is a stomp. The fight would never start as Ditto would be too scared to take Medaka on in a fight.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Is the Ditto Experiment Theroy accecpted here? Honest question, mostly just curious.
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the mew thing? Its not argued against, but it isn't used as justification for reasonings
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This seems like a very blatant and hard stomp, I am tempted to wonder what would make anyone think Ditto could copy some of the more Concept-y powers of Medaka.
@Apies That is...?
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dang dem ninja's
The theory is that ditto is an experiment at clonig a mew. Their shiny is the same, both can transform etc.
The theory is that ditto is an experiment at clonig a mew. Their shiny is the same, both can transform etc.
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The point about equipment wasn't how effective they'd be nor did I mean that she needs them for her skills. I was just being pedantic to say that she does have equipment. Although I suppose it's possible she'd be unlikely to use it.
Either way, AFAIK, I never disagreed on the matter of who'd win this. I can't see myself voting for Ditto. I'm quite confident Medaka has this easily, even if Ditto didn't retreat. But if it is a stomp, I suppose this is yet another match not going on eithers' profiles. Oh well.
Also, I don't think it influences much, but what is the starting distance here?
Starting distance: The characters start as far away from each other as the highest range of the fighters is, but a maximum of 4 kilometers. For example, if one character has a range of 10 meter and the other has a range of 20 meter they start 20 meter apart. However if the range of one character is 10 meter and the range of the other is 5 kilometer, they start only 4 kilometer apart. If extreme advantages are generated via this distance to one side, a balanced alternative should be discussed in the thread.
Ditto's Range is "Varies", Medaka's is Range: Average human melee range, several meters with abilities, likely universal with All Fictio
So what exactly is the Maximum Range of the fighters here? I'd assume Ditto doesn't have higher range than how far it can see. It's stated to be able to transform into whatever it sees & known to do so, so I'd think we'd assume regular human vision range for base Ditto.
Technically, it doesn't change who wins, but if they start too far apart for Ditto to see Medaka -I'd assume she's still aware of it, though- does it count as an "extreme advantage" for Medaka?
I'd assume that since it's in-character for it to transform into anything it sees, if it could see Medaka, it'd do so. Not that I'm confident it'd be able to win even if Ditto-as-Medaka WASN'T affected by Alpha Presence.
(On the topic of Ditto-Mew theory, they also share weight. But again, that's not really thread relevant.)
Either way, AFAIK, I never disagreed on the matter of who'd win this. I can't see myself voting for Ditto. I'm quite confident Medaka has this easily, even if Ditto didn't retreat. But if it is a stomp, I suppose this is yet another match not going on eithers' profiles. Oh well.
Also, I don't think it influences much, but what is the starting distance here?
Starting distance: The characters start as far away from each other as the highest range of the fighters is, but a maximum of 4 kilometers. For example, if one character has a range of 10 meter and the other has a range of 20 meter they start 20 meter apart. However if the range of one character is 10 meter and the range of the other is 5 kilometer, they start only 4 kilometer apart. If extreme advantages are generated via this distance to one side, a balanced alternative should be discussed in the thread.
Ditto's Range is "Varies", Medaka's is Range: Average human melee range, several meters with abilities, likely universal with All Fictio
So what exactly is the Maximum Range of the fighters here? I'd assume Ditto doesn't have higher range than how far it can see. It's stated to be able to transform into whatever it sees & known to do so, so I'd think we'd assume regular human vision range for base Ditto.
Technically, it doesn't change who wins, but if they start too far apart for Ditto to see Medaka -I'd assume she's still aware of it, though- does it count as an "extreme advantage" for Medaka?
I'd assume that since it's in-character for it to transform into anything it sees, if it could see Medaka, it'd do so. Not that I'm confident it'd be able to win even if Ditto-as-Medaka WASN'T affected by Alpha Presence.
(On the topic of Ditto-Mew theory, they also share weight. But again, that's not really thread relevant.)
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Only reason I brought it up was IF it was accepted, it could be an argument against Alpha Presence. In Medaka Box, animals that had been modified and experimented on were unaffected by Alpha Presence.
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Which animals?ApiesDeathbyLazors said:
Alpha Presence is basically Humans follow her, and Animals fear her. Animals are able to sense fear.
@Imaginym
My point on the equipment was that they don't change anything. I mean imagine if Zeno took the Z Sword, would he become stronger? That's the point, some girl who can erase concepts won't become stronger via weapons.
It's not about the distance. You can have them start in a universal distance. It's not a problem of range. Think of this: Ppl tell u they found an opponent for you, he is in another city, u'r like "ok, let's go", and when u go there u realize ur opponent it a 5x4 dude. u'll be like "*** that, im not fighting him", same thing would happen if they showed you a pic of the dude and said "this dude lives on the other side of the earth, he wants to fight you". That's the same case here. All he needs to do is realize he's gonna be fighting Medaka, and he'll drop the fight. Because Medaka is too scary for him. Again this is not a skill that has range, it's about pure fear, it doesn't induce it, but rather she is someone you can't take on in a fight, and u would never fight her. That's the deal. The fear always comes from yourself.
And about the range thing. Yes it is a HUGE advantage for Medaka. All Medaka needs to copy something is know it exists. She needs to experience it, see it, hear about it, etc. It's not relevant in this match but in general it's a huge bonus (as i usually say Medaka has 1 of the most potent copy abilities in all of fiction). But there are other stuff like All Fiction which doesn't rly have a range limit, anything is possible as long as it's not resistant to All Fiction.
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This getting closed yet?
