thetechmaster36
He/Him- 1,830
- 1,750
Hit it, Neptune-- wait, wrong song. Hit it, Uzume!
Introduction
Hey, everyone. It's ya bois (and girl) back at it again with some more HDN revisions. This is a CRT regarding previously removed Powers and Abilities involving Game Discs, as well as some new stuff involving Flags, Plans, Weapon and Attack descriptions (Combo, EX Finish, SP Attack, and EXE Drive stuff), Resistances, and some miscellaneous bits and pieces.
Based on the conclusions of this Q&A thread, as well as some internal discussion, we've decided that the abilities granted by Game Discs will be added back. The Game Disc abilities were briefly discussed in Part 2 of our previous set of revisions and were previously agreed to be removed due to it being a Game Mechanic that wasn't brought up in the story of the game. However, after the Q&A thread, we've taken a different stance and have since agreed, due to the better clarification of the site's standards, that Game Discs are valid and should be added to the profiles yet again with some adjustments.
On top of that, we've also come to the conclusion that other things like Flag Items, Plans, and the description of weapons and attacks are also valid, since while they might not be shown off within the main story, it doesn't mean they don't have the ability to actually do this, or that the ability doesn't exist at all, it just means that there are limitations to the presentation of the game (which is very valid given how the cutscenes are very VN-ish). There is also quite a few pieces of evidence to suggest that they can still exist within the overall lore, such as Flag Items having a Nepedia entry dedicated to them, scenes dedicated for all four main CPUs for the Disc Dev system in VII, and Chirper events being canon thanks to this one in particular.
So, we're going to go over them here and now. Unlike the other CRTs we did recently, this one won't entirely be organized by spoiler tags, only the bigger walls of text will be. There are still a few of them, though, so please don't feel overwhelmed by them when you see them.
With that said, let's get to Nepping!
Abilities
Game Discs
Since Game Disc stuff was already addressed and put on the profiles in the past, this will be relatively easy. We already have an outline for the abilities granted by Game Discs:
So, not only do we agree to add Game Disc stuff, but we're also going to add more things like Plans and Flag Items to the profiles. Plans in the Re;Birth trilogy are items that you can get that directly alter either your characters, or the dungeons that you explore. Flag Items are items introduced in VII, which are items that either affect your character, the overworld, or are just aesthetic. Here's the abilities granted from Flag Items and Plans.
Note: Plans will only be put on the profiles of the protagonists who appeared in the Re;Birth trilogy, and Flag Items will only be put on the profiles of the VII protagonists.
Flag Items
Now this is going to be a bit long, so be warned. We've got some stuff to go through.
Conclusion
Well, that's everything! Hopefully this will go smoothly and easily. This wasn't a "big" revision like the last two revision threads we've done in terms of shaking up the tiers or the scaling and whatnot, and we won't be making another revision thread like that until Sisters vs. Sisters is localized, but we wanted to make this thread in the meantime so Neptunia doesn't just remain dead in the water on this wiki until then.
Discuss!
Agree: Jinsye, Shmoopy, ThegreatJedi13 (agrees with a "Possibly" or "Likely" for the weapon resistances), Smashtwig, Randomlamdom (neutral on FTL, disagree with transmutation for Plasma Oven), Zencha9, Veloxt1r0kore, Maverick_Zero_X, 1st_Virtue_Of_Pure_Void, FantaRin_The_First
Neutral: Vietthai96
Introduction
Hey, everyone. It's ya bois (and girl) back at it again with some more HDN revisions. This is a CRT regarding previously removed Powers and Abilities involving Game Discs, as well as some new stuff involving Flags, Plans, Weapon and Attack descriptions (Combo, EX Finish, SP Attack, and EXE Drive stuff), Resistances, and some miscellaneous bits and pieces.
Based on the conclusions of this Q&A thread, as well as some internal discussion, we've decided that the abilities granted by Game Discs will be added back. The Game Disc abilities were briefly discussed in Part 2 of our previous set of revisions and were previously agreed to be removed due to it being a Game Mechanic that wasn't brought up in the story of the game. However, after the Q&A thread, we've taken a different stance and have since agreed, due to the better clarification of the site's standards, that Game Discs are valid and should be added to the profiles yet again with some adjustments.
On top of that, we've also come to the conclusion that other things like Flag Items, Plans, and the description of weapons and attacks are also valid, since while they might not be shown off within the main story, it doesn't mean they don't have the ability to actually do this, or that the ability doesn't exist at all, it just means that there are limitations to the presentation of the game (which is very valid given how the cutscenes are very VN-ish). There is also quite a few pieces of evidence to suggest that they can still exist within the overall lore, such as Flag Items having a Nepedia entry dedicated to them, scenes dedicated for all four main CPUs for the Disc Dev system in VII, and Chirper events being canon thanks to this one in particular.
So, we're going to go over them here and now. Unlike the other CRTs we did recently, this one won't entirely be organized by spoiler tags, only the bigger walls of text will be. There are still a few of them, though, so please don't feel overwhelmed by them when you see them.
With that said, let's get to Nepping!
Abilities
Game Discs
Since Game Disc stuff was already addressed and put on the profiles in the past, this will be relatively easy. We already have an outline for the abilities granted by Game Discs:
But for the sake of making this easier for ourselves, we're going to be polishing this list up. So here's what we got.
- Regeneration (Low; through the use of Pink Idea Chips, [x character] can recover health and injuries overtime)
- Status Effect Inducement (Through the use of Yellow Idea Chips, [x character] can inflict the Poison, Paralysis, and Apathy statuses)
- Damage Reduction (Through the use of Blue Idea Chips, [x character] is able to take reduced damage from Dragon, Ghost, Insect, Plant, Aquatic, Slime, Avian, Data, Animal, Machine, Inorganic, Human, and Goddess category enemies, as well as take reduced damage from Physical, Magical, and Elemental attacks)
- Resistance to Elemental Manipulation (Through the use of Blue Idea Chips, [x character] is able to resist attacks that use the Fire, Ice, Wind, Lightning, Light, or Darkness elements)
- Resistance to Status Effect Inducement (Through the use of Yellow Idea Chips, [x character] can resist being inflicted with Paralysis, Transformation Negation (Virus)*, Poison, Apathy, Confusion, and Shadow Hold)
- *Virus only functionally applies to characters that can transform (CPUs, Candidates, Gold Third).
So, not only do we agree to add Game Disc stuff, but we're also going to add more things like Plans and Flag Items to the profiles. Plans in the Re;Birth trilogy are items that you can get that directly alter either your characters, or the dungeons that you explore. Flag Items are items introduced in VII, which are items that either affect your character, the overworld, or are just aesthetic. Here's the abilities granted from Flag Items and Plans.
Note: Plans will only be put on the profiles of the protagonists who appeared in the Re;Birth trilogy, and Flag Items will only be put on the profiles of the VII protagonists.
Flag Items
- Perception Manipulation (Via the White Orb, enemies won't be able to spot [x character], and she can only be seen when said enemies are attacked by them)
- All VII protagonist profiles get "higher with Dash Sneakers (Dash Sneakers increase the speed of a character when used)" in the Speed section of the profile
- Statistics Amplification & Reduction (Via "Fortify Enemies" and "Weaken Enemies")
- Resistance to Status Effect Inducement (Via "Negative Status Reduced")
- Accelerated Development (Via "EXP Up"; non-combat applicable)
- Enhanced Senses (Via "Laplace's Eye", which can see 'hidden treasures')
- Extrasensory Perception (Via "Sneaking Scope", which displays enemy sight direction)
Now this is going to be a bit long, so be warned. We've got some stuff to go through.
Weapons
First, we'll start with the weapons. While a lot of weapon descriptions are supposed to be joke descriptions, or otherwise totally outlier-ish (cough cough Ultra Neptune), there's still a handful of stuff we can pull from. These descriptions can be found on the Neptunia wiki or in-game. We'll go in order of first profile to last profile on the verse page.
Abilities
Any abilities marked with a "[?]" means that we're unsure on whether the ability is correctly applied, or if it's a different ability.
Now with all of these abilities established, we're going to go over some resistances that are being granted to the profiles. Due to some of these characters fighting against each other, some resistances are granted to others. Let's talk about them.
First, we'll start with the weapons. While a lot of weapon descriptions are supposed to be joke descriptions, or otherwise totally outlier-ish (cough cough Ultra Neptune), there's still a handful of stuff we can pull from. These descriptions can be found on the Neptunia wiki or in-game. We'll go in order of first profile to last profile on the verse page.
Abilities
Any abilities marked with a "[?]" means that we're unsure on whether the ability is correctly applied, or if it's a different ability.
- Hyper Dimension Neptune
- More Light Manipulation (Via Claiomh Solais and Laevateinn; Claiomh Solais' description states it can blind enemies with the light it reflects, and Laevateinn's description states it's a divine sword that emits more potent illumination than the Sun)
- Statistics Amplification (Via Mecha Nep Blade and Purple Force; Mecha Nep Blade's description states that it draws out all the power of Neptune, and Purple Force's description states it amplifies Share Energy which is converted into attack power)
- [insert some kind of ability for being able to slice through anything here] (Via Mechanical Blade: Edge and Mech Blade - Ray Slicer; Mechanical Blade: Edge's description states that it can supposedly cut through anything so long as the user knows how to wield it, and Mech Blade - Ray Slicer's description states it can cut through anything, including those without form)
- Noire
- None lol
- Blanc
- Atomization (Via The Mediator; The Mediator's description states that it ruthlessly atomizes anyone, enemy or ally)
- Vert
- Existence Erasure [?] (Via Trishula; Trishula's description states that it eradicates all that it touches, and that all matter becomes formless when pierced by it)
- Statistics Amplification (Via Valhalla; Valhalla's description states that it has a sacred aura which amplifies CPU power)
- Plutia
- None lol
- Peashy
- None lol
- Uzume Tennouboshi
- Vibration Manipulation (Alongside using sound to attack, Uzume's megaphones use shockwaves to attack enemies, something that is noted in the very first weapon she uses)
- Enhanced Senses [?] (Via Crimson Death; Crimson Death description states that it holds an unusual effect where it warns the user about attacks from above)
- Statistics Amplification (Via Onoregaloff; Onoregaloff's description states that it has a built-in emotional amplifier unit, and that its true power is drawn out by the user's emotions)
- Heat Manipulation / Fire Manipulation (Via Virtual Blaze; Virtual Blaze's description states that when it releases sound, the area flickers like a heat haze)
- Nepgear
- Extreme Heat (Many of Nepgear's weapons note how hot they are, and how they can easily slice through steel and other alloys)
- Uni
- Stealth Mastery (Via Stealth Buster; Stealth Buster's description states that, when equipped, it displays stealth functions and the user's presence fades)
- Rom
- Information Analysis (Via Aqua Ankh; Aqua Ankh's description states that there is a small monitor at the tip, which can be seen in the design itself, and it allows Rom to view an enemy's stats)
- Ram
- Information Analysis (Via Pink Ankh; Pink Ankh's description states that there is a small monitor at the tip, which can be seen in the design itself, and it allows Ram to view an enemy's stats)
- C-Sha
- Statistics Amplification (Many of C-Sha's weapons note that wearing them increases physical prowess and striking power, sometimes exponentially, and sometimes beyond the wearer's limits)
- B-Sha
- More Energy Projection (Some of B-Sha's bazookas are stated to shoot lasers instead of missiles)
- K-Sha
- None lol
- S-Sha
- Already on the profile, but Time Manipulation (Via Chronos Blade; Chronos Blade's description states that it has the power to control time, and that it's called the "time-traveling sword")
- Histoire
- None lol (well, besides the one that says she contains Gamindustri's history inside of her, but eh)
- IF
- None lol
- Compa
- Holy Manipulation [?] (Via Histoire-Certified Holy Water; the weapon's description states that it's so divine, that evil creatures can't touch it)
- MarvelousAQL
- Extreme Heat (Via Kaen; Kaen's description states that it shines a crimson color because of how hot it is)
- Assuming that this sword is made of steel, that means that the sword is at least 460 °C, as that is the minimum heat required to make metal glow red.
- Extreme Heat (Via Kaen; Kaen's description states that it shines a crimson color because of how hot it is)
- 5pb.
- None lol
- Ultra Dimension Neptune
- Matter Manipulation (Sub-Atomic via Resonance Blade; Resonance Blade's description states that the swords vibrate at an atomic level, and slice through things by breaking atoms down)
Now with all of these abilities established, we're going to go over some resistances that are being granted to the profiles. Due to some of these characters fighting against each other, some resistances are granted to others. Let's talk about them.
- Main Four CPUs
- All four of the CPUs will be granted resistance to the following:
- Heat Manipulation / Fire Manipulation (Can easily withstand attacks from Virtual Blaze, whose description states that when it releases sound, the area flickers like a heat haze)
- Extreme Heat (Can withstand attacks from Nepgear's swords, which are noted to be extremely hot and sometimes made of lasers)
- Matter Manipulation (Sub-Atomic; virtually unaffected by attacks from Ultra Dimension Neptune's Resonance Blade, which are stated to vibrate at an atomic level, and slice through things by breaking atoms down)
- All four of the CPUs will be granted resistance to the following:
- Neptune, Noire, Plutia
- Neptune, Noire, and Plutia will be granted - Resistance to Atomization (Can withstand attacks from Blanc's "The Mediator" weapon, whose description states that it ruthlessly atomizes anyone, enemy or ally)
- Neptune, Noire, Blanc, Plutia, Nepgear
- Neptune, Noire, Blanc, Plutia, and Nepgear will all get additional Existence Erasure (or any other ability that possibly replaces EE) resistance justification - (Can withstand attacks from Vert's Trishula, whose description states that it eradicates all that it touches, and that all matter becomes formless when pierced by the weapon)
- Peashy
- Peashy will receive resistance to the following:
- Atomization (Can resist attacks from Blanc's "The Mediator" weapon, which is stated to ruthlessly atomize anyone, enemy or ally)
- Existence Erasure (Can resist attacks from Vert's Trishula, which is stated to make all matter become formless when pierced by it)
- Extreme Heat (Withstood attacks from Nepgear's swords, which have been noted to be extremely hot and made of lasers)
- Peashy will receive resistance to the following:
- Gold Third
- All Gold Third members will receive resistance to the following:
- Atomization (Can resist attacks from Blanc's "The Mediator" weapon, which is stated to ruthlessly atomize anyone, enemy or ally)
- Existence Erasure (Can resist attacks from Vert's Trishula, which is stated to make all matter become formless when pierced by it)
- Extreme Heat (Withstood attacks from Nepgear's swords, which have been noted to be extremely hot and made of lasers)
- All Gold Third members will receive resistance to the following:
- Ultra Dimension Neptune
- Ultra Dimension Neptune will receive resistance to the following:
- Existence Erasure (Can resist attacks from Vert's Trishula, which is stated to make all matter become formless when pierced by it)
- Extreme Heat (Withstood attacks from Nepgear's swords, which have been noted to be extremely hot and made of lasers)
- Atomization (Can resist attacks from Blanc's "The Mediator" weapon, which is stated to ruthlessly atomize anyone, enemy or ally)
- Ultra Dimension Neptune will receive resistance to the following:
- CFW Magic
- CFW Magic will receive resistance to the following:
- Atomization (Can resist attacks from Blanc's "The Mediator" weapon, which is stated to ruthlessly atomize anyone, enemy or ally)
- Existence Erasure (Can resist attacks from Vert's Trishula, which is stated to make all matter become formless when pierced by it)
- Extreme Heat (Withstood attacks from Nepgear's swords, which have been noted to be extremely hot and made of lasers. Can also withstand attacks from MarvelousAQL's "Kaen" weapon, which is noted to glow crimson because of how hot it is, which would make its temperature at least 460 °C)
- CFW Magic will receive resistance to the following:
- Hyper Dimension Arfoire
- HD Arfoire will receive resistance to the following:
- Atomization (Can resist attacks from Blanc's "The Mediator" weapon, which is stated to ruthlessly atomize anyone, enemy or ally)
- Existence Erasure (Can resist attacks from Vert's Trishula, which is stated to make all matter become formless when pierced by it)
- Extreme Heat (Withstood attacks from Nepgear's swords, which have been noted to be extremely hot and made of lasers. Can also withstand attacks from MarvelousAQL's "Kaen" weapon, which is noted to glow crimson because of how hot it is, which would make its temperature at least 460 °C)
- HD Arfoire will receive resistance to the following:
- Rei Ryghts
- Rei Ryghts will receive resistance to the following:
- Atomization (Can resist attacks from Blanc's "The Mediator" weapon, which is stated to ruthlessly atomize anyone, enemy or ally)
- Existence Erasure (Can resist attacks from Vert's Trishula, which is stated to make all matter become formless when pierced by it)
- Extreme Heat (Withstood attacks from Nepgear's swords, which have been noted to be extremely hot and made of lasers)
- Rei Ryghts will receive resistance to the following:
- Zero Dimension Arfoire
- ZD Arfoire will receive resistance to the following:
- Extreme Heat (Withstood attacks from Nepgear's swords, which have been noted to be extremely hot and made of lasers)
- Matter Manipulation (Sub-Atomic; virtually unaffected by attacks from Ultra Dimension Neptune's Resonance Blade, which are stated to vibrate at an atomic level, and slice through things by breaking atoms down)
- ZD Arfoire will receive resistance to the following:
- Dark CPUs and Dark Orange
- Dark CPUs and Dark Orange will receive resistance to the following:
- Atomization (Can resist attacks from Blanc's "The Mediator" weapon, which is stated to ruthlessly atomize anyone, enemy or ally)
- Existence Erasure (Can resist attacks from Vert's Trishula, which is stated to make all matter become formless when pierced by it)
- Extreme Heat (Withstood attacks from Nepgear's swords, which have been noted to be extremely hot and made of lasers)
- Matter Manipulation (Sub-Atomic; virtually unaffected by attacks from Ultra Dimension Neptune's Resonance Blade, which are stated to vibrate at an atomic level, and slice through things by breaking atoms down)
- Heat Manipulation / Fire Manipulation (Can easily withstand attacks from Virtual Blaze, whose description states that when it releases sound, the area flickers like a heat haze)
- Dark CPUs and Dark Orange will receive resistance to the following:
Attacks
Now, we're going to look at attack descriptions. Much like the weapons, a few of these are meant to simply be jokes, but at the same time, a majority of these are told in an objective third person, or otherwise told in a first person. But just because it's told in the first person doesn't mean we can't assume that the characters are overestimating their abilities (unless they're legitimately being cocky). We'll do the same order here, and the same "[?]" deal applies here.
Abilities
Now, we're going to look at attack descriptions. Much like the weapons, a few of these are meant to simply be jokes, but at the same time, a majority of these are told in an objective third person, or otherwise told in a first person. But just because it's told in the first person doesn't mean we can't assume that the characters are overestimating their abilities (unless they're legitimately being cocky). We'll do the same order here, and the same "[?]" deal applies here.
Abilities
- Hyper Dimension Neptune
- We already went over this briefly in the last thread, but Next Purple's Conceptual Manipulation. Obviously, we had removed it because of our stance on the statements for attacks and whatnot, but with our changed position, we are more than okay with adding it back. So, yeah:
- Conceptual Manipulation (The description for Dimensional Slice states that Next Purple slices through the concept of the opponent)
- We already went over this briefly in the last thread, but Next Purple's Conceptual Manipulation. Obviously, we had removed it because of our stance on the statements for attacks and whatnot, but with our changed position, we are more than okay with adding it back. So, yeah:
- Ram
- While this wasn't discussed before, it is on the profile: Ram's Absolute Zero. We said that it doesn't grant Absolute Zero, buuut given our changed stance, we figured it would be okay to grant this Absolute Zero. The name and description literally say it's Absolute Zero, and given how Ram knows her magic very well, there's no reason to assume she would be lying about both the attack name and the temperature of the ice she uses in the attack.
- Ram is cocky at times, sure, and you could argue that part of this is a nominal fallacy, but the name goes hand-in-hand with the description of the attack, and again, Ram knows her magic well. Hell, Ram even taught some of her magic to Rom, showing a high level of knowledge over it, and some of both of the twins' magic is taught by Blanc as well, so regardless of who came up with the technique (Ram, Blanc, or Mina, who also taught the twins some magic), it's highly unlikely that this is a hyperbole or Ram being overconfident.
- Absolute Zero (Ram has an attack named Absolute Zero, and the description of it also mentions that it has "the chill of Absolute Zero")
- 5pb.
- One of 5pb.'s attacks, Slow Speed, uses sound to slow the enemies down. In-game, this ends up delaying the enemy's turn.
- Statistics Reduction (Slow Speed reduces the speed of the enemy by using sound to attack them.
- This is on the profile, but only listed as "Possibly", which is her Durability Negation via Plasma Oven. The description says that she'll turn the enemy into hot, dense, pressurized plasma.
- Transmutation / Matter Manipulation [?] (Plasma Oven's description states that 5pb. turns the enemy into "hot, dense, pressurized plasma")
- One of 5pb.'s attacks, Slow Speed, uses sound to slow the enemies down. In-game, this ends up delaying the enemy's turn.
- Main Four CPUs, C-Sha, CFW Magic, HD Arfoire, Rei Ryghts, Dark CPUs and Dark Orange
- All of these characters would receive Resistance to Absolute Zero (Able to withstand Ram's Absolute Zero attack, which is stated verbatim to have the "chill of Absolute Zero")
- CFW Magic and HD Arfoire
- These characters would receive Resistance to Transmutation / Matter Manipulation (Can resist being turned into plasma by 5pb.'s Plasma Oven attack, whose description states that it would turn the enemy into "hot, dense, pressurized plasma")
- Dark CPUs and Dark Orange
- These characters would receive Resistance to Conceptual Manipulation (Can withstand Next Purple's Dimensional Slice, whose description states that it slices through the concept of the enemy)
Alright, here comes the potentially controversial bit of this entire CRT.
Light Needle
Light Needle is an EX Finish attack used by Cave in Re;Birth 2. It's description is this:
"A dangerous attack that pierces a foe at the speed of light."
Now I'm sure you might know where this is going. Yeah, we're using this to try and upgrade the verse's speed to at bare minimum "FTL attack and reaction speed", and if we want to take it up a notch, "FTL combat speed". Obviously, this is a huge jump from the current speed rating, which is Hypersonic. Meaning, from Hypersonic to FTL, we're jumping a whole eleven tiers of speed.
So... just how, and why exactly, are we going to be scaling this particular attack to the rest of the characters?
Our reasoning and objective from that point on was simple: Find any other sort of attack that either matches the same hit count (8 hits) within the same timeframe (1.4 seconds), or one that surpasses it. And won't you believe it, we've got both.
Here is a list for the characters that have shown attacks either matching or exceeding Light Needle's 8 hits within 1.4 seconds:
Not to mention that there are many non-listed characters that scale to the ones that are, such as Hyper Dimension Neptune being able to match Uzume blow-for-blow on their first encounter, so to say that the non-listed characters cannot attack and react at these speeds would be quite fallacious.
"How can you prove Uzume was actually using her full speed against Neptune? She could've been holding back."
That would be a valid point had it not been established prior that Uzume originally thought of Neptune as an enemy, so it's very unlikely that she was holding back and there is nothing else in that scene to suggest otherwise. Besides that, Neptune was being very casual and friendly to Uzume, seeing as she was happy to see that there were people other than her (Neptune) and Nepgear in the Zero Dimension. Neptune was even caught off-guard by the fact that Uzume was considering her a reinforcement, yet she was still able to block Uzume's attack, something that she wouldn't have been able to do if she didn't have the same speed as Uzume, hence the FTL reaction speed upgrade.
So, what does this all mean? Well, the characters that currently have profiles on the wiki, excluding Histoire, will be having their attack/combat and reaction speed adjusted to FTL. And that includes all keys. BoS, Current, HDD, whatever. Every key gets upgraded. We're not exactly sure which one out of Attack and Combat Speed is best suited for this sort of situation, so it would be much appreciated if this could be discussed in the replies below.
"But why would the BoS Key be FTL? Why wouldn't it just be SoL?"
Well, the reason why the BoS key is going to be getting the FTL upgrade is because of IF. IF, even before Cave comes along and joins your party, has access to Apocalypse Nova, which is one of the moves on the list that would be considered FTL due to it dealing more hits in the same span of time as Light Needle. And even then, the characters are still able to keep up with IF's attacks in cutscenes, including some like CFW Judge.
As for why Histoire will not be receiving this upgrade, this is due to her not fighting anybody in the Re;Birth 2 storyline - and whilst you can play as her in-game, she does not have any concrete proof that can show any correlation between her attack/combat speed and the ones belonging to the other characters. Sure, she can fight the same enemies as everybody else, but when the main storyline and her lack of fighting is pulled into question, this makes her capabilities in this scenario highly unreliable.
Conclusion
Light Needle
Light Needle is an EX Finish attack used by Cave in Re;Birth 2. It's description is this:
"A dangerous attack that pierces a foe at the speed of light."
Now I'm sure you might know where this is going. Yeah, we're using this to try and upgrade the verse's speed to at bare minimum "FTL attack and reaction speed", and if we want to take it up a notch, "FTL combat speed". Obviously, this is a huge jump from the current speed rating, which is Hypersonic. Meaning, from Hypersonic to FTL, we're jumping a whole eleven tiers of speed.
So... just how, and why exactly, are we going to be scaling this particular attack to the rest of the characters?
The Justification
Light Needle, in-game, is an attack that takes 1.4 seconds to complete - from the very first hit that Cave lands, to her recovering from her final slice. It should also be noted that this attack hits an enemy 8 times. In the case of Neptunia, this can be considered our baseline Light Speed.Our reasoning and objective from that point on was simple: Find any other sort of attack that either matches the same hit count (8 hits) within the same timeframe (1.4 seconds), or one that surpasses it. And won't you believe it, we've got both.
Here is a list for the characters that have shown attacks either matching or exceeding Light Needle's 8 hits within 1.4 seconds:
- Next Form Noire: Via "Diagonal Blade Dance" | 13 hits
- Uzume Tennouboshi: Via "Special Dream Combo" | 11 hits
- IF: Via "Apocalypse Nova" | 9 hits
- K-Sha: Via "Full Weapon Attack" | 9 hits
- Neptune (Ultra Dimension): Via "Nepnical Combination" | 8 hits
- Nepgear: Via "Power Bomb" | 8 hits
- Vert: Via "Nuwara Squall" | 8 hits
Not to mention that there are many non-listed characters that scale to the ones that are, such as Hyper Dimension Neptune being able to match Uzume blow-for-blow on their first encounter, so to say that the non-listed characters cannot attack and react at these speeds would be quite fallacious.
"How can you prove Uzume was actually using her full speed against Neptune? She could've been holding back."
That would be a valid point had it not been established prior that Uzume originally thought of Neptune as an enemy, so it's very unlikely that she was holding back and there is nothing else in that scene to suggest otherwise. Besides that, Neptune was being very casual and friendly to Uzume, seeing as she was happy to see that there were people other than her (Neptune) and Nepgear in the Zero Dimension. Neptune was even caught off-guard by the fact that Uzume was considering her a reinforcement, yet she was still able to block Uzume's attack, something that she wouldn't have been able to do if she didn't have the same speed as Uzume, hence the FTL reaction speed upgrade.
So, what does this all mean? Well, the characters that currently have profiles on the wiki, excluding Histoire, will be having their attack/combat and reaction speed adjusted to FTL. And that includes all keys. BoS, Current, HDD, whatever. Every key gets upgraded. We're not exactly sure which one out of Attack and Combat Speed is best suited for this sort of situation, so it would be much appreciated if this could be discussed in the replies below.
"But why would the BoS Key be FTL? Why wouldn't it just be SoL?"
Well, the reason why the BoS key is going to be getting the FTL upgrade is because of IF. IF, even before Cave comes along and joins your party, has access to Apocalypse Nova, which is one of the moves on the list that would be considered FTL due to it dealing more hits in the same span of time as Light Needle. And even then, the characters are still able to keep up with IF's attacks in cutscenes, including some like CFW Judge.
As for why Histoire will not be receiving this upgrade, this is due to her not fighting anybody in the Re;Birth 2 storyline - and whilst you can play as her in-game, she does not have any concrete proof that can show any correlation between her attack/combat speed and the ones belonging to the other characters. Sure, she can fight the same enemies as everybody else, but when the main storyline and her lack of fighting is pulled into question, this makes her capabilities in this scenario highly unreliable.
Conclusion
- Every key on every profile will have a "FTL attack and reaction speed" or "FTL combat speed" rating.
- Histoire is the only exception to this due to her ambiguity in combat, as well as the fact that she does not fight anyone in the storyline of RB;2 itself.
- If the upgrade is rejected, the speed ratings will remain unchanged, at least until the next revisions.
This section is for miscellaneous things that don't necessarily apply to the above things, but are here because they are relevant.
Intelligence Sections
Intelligence Sections
- Multiple Characters
- Many of the characters have been shown that they are proficient with their fighting styles (swordfighting, lancing, marksmanship, etc.), some of whom have been fighting that way for multiple years, or even decades (someone like Neptune), but the only that even denotes such a thing is the Weapon Mastery link in the P&A section. Simply put, this really seems to undersell the fact that these characters (barring. . .I guess Compa?) are still very versatile and skilled in their fighting styles.
- There are times where some characters, by themselves, could go up against multiple other enemies or characters and still come out on top, even if said enemies have similar or only slightly lower AP. Best examples of this are when Uzume is continuously fighting off against the monster horde trying to reach Hyper Dimension, or when Blanc was facing multiple monsters at once on the outskirts of Lowee. Simply put, it ain't just a matter of AP, since even multiple fodders can overwhelm them if they are not careful, it's also a matter a skill - we are shown this multiple times such as the horde of Dogoos ganging up on the party in Re;Birth 2, and the Nep Sisters + Uzume being overwhelmed by Arfoire's monsters in Zero Dimension (the scene before Neptune is sent home).
- Some characters are said to straight up create their own attacks and techniques. Neptune has her D-Drive attacks, her "Nep Battle Dance" attacks, and others like Delta Slash. Nepgear created her own D-Drive attack based off of Neptune's attack. Falcom has her own, self-taught sword style and she has been noted to be very skilled by Nepgear, who has watched her fight. So on, and so forth. There are many examples to be pulled from.
- On many of these profiles, there will be a note that they are proficient in their own styles of fighting (excluding Compa, she's not much of a fighter because of how she fights), and each one will be different depending on who it is.
- The CPUs are likely going to be noted to be more skilled than their younger sisters due to more experience and general knowledge.
- For those profiles who have attacks which are stated to be created by the character: (The descriptions of some of their attacks state that they have been created by [x character] themselves)
- On many of these profiles, there will be a note that they are proficient in their own styles of fighting (excluding Compa, she's not much of a fighter because of how she fights), and each one will be different depending on who it is.
- Main Four CPUs
- In Arc 3 of VII, the main four CPUs end up fighting against the entire party up to that point, which consisted of 12 members: Uzume, the CPU Candidates, the Gold Third, Ultra Neptune, IF, and Compa. Assuming that the fight had the party split up into groups to fight the CPUs, that would mean that each CPU fought at least three party members, with some of those characters including the likes of Nepgear, K-Sha, C-Sha, and S-Sha.
- While you could argue that this shouldn't count because the CPUs were corrupted by Kurome at the time of the fight, the main thing here is that the CPUs being corrupted is changing who they fight, and not how they fight. Nothing suggests that the CPUs have a different fighting style just because they're fighting against their own friends and family now, especially when they've been manipulated to hate them outright, so they don't show remorse as a result.
- On their profiles: (Whilst [x character] was corrupted, she was able to fight against the party of VII up to that point, which was comprised of 12 members, consisting of characters such as K-Sha, Nepgear, and C-Sha)
- Hyper Dimension Neptune
- One of IF's weapon descriptions (Dual Sword Neptune) states that Neptune designed the weapon, which would mean she's decently knowledgeable in weapon design.
- On the profile, it would look like: (Knowledgeable in weapon design, as one of IF's weapon descriptions states that Neptune designed the weapon)
- One of IF's weapon descriptions (Dual Sword Neptune) states that Neptune designed the weapon, which would mean she's decently knowledgeable in weapon design.
- Blanc
- Has an attack based in taijutsu (Satellabute's description states that it's an attack based in taijutsu, a form of martial arts), suggesting Blanc has some knowledge of martial arts.
- On the profile: (Seemingly knowledgeable of some martial arts, as Satellabute's description states that it's an attack based in taijutsu, which is a form of martial arts)
- Has an attack based in taijutsu (Satellabute's description states that it's an attack based in taijutsu, a form of martial arts), suggesting Blanc has some knowledge of martial arts.
- Ram
- Multiple of Rom's EX Finish attacks state that Ram taught the magic to Rom. Icicle Tornado, Giant Tornado, and Air Blast all have statements of Ram teaching the magic to Rom.
- On the profile: (Taught multiple magical techniques to Rom, such as Icicle Tornado, Giant Tornado, and Air Blast)
- Multiple of Rom's EX Finish attacks state that Ram taught the magic to Rom. Icicle Tornado, Giant Tornado, and Air Blast all have statements of Ram teaching the magic to Rom.
- IF
- While this was changed in VII, some of IF's SP Attacks state that she created them whilst she was doing something. Demonic Inferno and Heaven Demon were both stated to have been IF's created attacks.
- On the profile: (Created two of her SP Attacks: Demonic Inferno and Heaven Demon)
- While this was changed in VII, some of IF's SP Attacks state that she created them whilst she was doing something. Demonic Inferno and Heaven Demon were both stated to have been IF's created attacks.
- K-Sha
- K-Sha has stated herself that she has been a trained military soldier and a part of The Order since she was young, meaning she has gone through multiple military training routines for years upon end.
- On the profile: (K-Sha is a skilled and trained military soldier who has been a part of The Order since she was young, meaning she has years of training routines under her belt, demonstrated through her expert use of the different weapons seen in her arsenal)
- This would in turn affect the Intelligence sections of Noire and Uni, since the former has defeated K-Sha alone, and the latter defeated K-Sha with Noire (and later, supposedly by herself in Arc 3).
- On their profiles: (Defeated K-Sha in battle, who is a trained military solider and has been a part of the military since she was young, with years of training experience up her sleeve)
- K-Sha has stated herself that she has been a trained military soldier and a part of The Order since she was young, meaning she has gone through multiple military training routines for years upon end.
- 5pb.
- One of 5pb.'s attacks says it's a combination of guitar bashing and taijutsu.
- On the profile: (5pb.'s "Rapid Rush" attack says that it involves taijutsu, suggesting minimal knowledge of martial arts at least)
- One of 5pb.'s attacks says it's a combination of guitar bashing and taijutsu.
- I already made a CRT for this a few months ago, but it died and I didn't feel like bumping it because I was feeling de-motivated, so I'll just copy and paste what I wrote in there.
- Kurome should receive Possession, and C-Sha should receive Resistance to it. Kurome initially teases at possessing C-Sha by saying that it's time for C-Sha to awaken as a vessel, and that she'll be taking control of C-Sha's body so she can try out the golden power for herself. She eventually does manage to take control of C-Sha's body after Blanc, Rom, and Ram find C-Sha. This would, in turn, give C-Sha a Resistance to Possession, as she is shown to be fighting against it and even Kurome herself says she's resisting.
- Most profiles get Non-Physical Interaction added to it due to the fact that pretty much all of them (save for the antagonists) have interacted with enemies that are classified and listed in the "Ghost" category of the enemy library.
- Kurome will still receive it due to the fact that she is a former CPU of Planeptune much like our favorite Nep, meaning the probability of her having interacted with these kinds of enemies is very high.
- On the profiles: Non-Physical Interaction (Consistently interacts with and defeats basic enemies that are classified as ghosts)
Conclusion
Well, that's everything! Hopefully this will go smoothly and easily. This wasn't a "big" revision like the last two revision threads we've done in terms of shaking up the tiers or the scaling and whatnot, and we won't be making another revision thread like that until Sisters vs. Sisters is localized, but we wanted to make this thread in the meantime so Neptunia doesn't just remain dead in the water on this wiki until then.
Discuss!
Agree: Jinsye, Shmoopy, ThegreatJedi13 (agrees with a "Possibly" or "Likely" for the weapon resistances), Smashtwig, Randomlamdom (neutral on FTL, disagree with transmutation for Plasma Oven), Zencha9, Veloxt1r0kore, Maverick_Zero_X, 1st_Virtue_Of_Pure_Void, FantaRin_The_First
FTL Attack and Reaction Speed:
FTL Combat Speed: Jinsye, FantaRin_The_First
Disagree:Neutral: Vietthai96
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