Humanity's Greatest Tournament Round 1 Match 2: Finn Balor VS Chisato Nishikigi (GRACE)

[DemonicDude]

So base demon so shitty in skill that he's getting skilled out here

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Bro you're seriously getting the words "Superior" and "Resistance" completely mixed up lol.

I'm high

My bad lol.

But in the end, either Chisato or Finn would lose to Daniel if one of them proceeding to the next round

This in a nutshell

 

[Cimafranca133]

This in a nutshell

Damn it, I was about to make that but you beat me to it

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Damn it, I was about to make that but you beat me to it

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

One thing that's also getting overlooked is The Demon's almost 3x AP advantage on Chisato.

We're already know thaf Finn has the AP advantage which is his main point

But far from impossible, which was the point I'm trying to convey here.

Right, this is pretty 50/50 to say

I feel like what I mentioned can mitigate the skill advantage to an extent.

The only thing that can covered Finn skill here, but i feel this alone wouldn't be enough
Going to sleep so i would like if peoples can wait for me or switching with me (fyi i already asked @Guretodesu to come here)

 

[RandomGuy2345]

@Pikaman you owe me two now for giving ya boi Finn IA, as well as defending him in this thread.

 

[SamanPatou]

Rubber bullets will sting but if Finn's a weapon user can't he just pick up something from the environment to defend, or heck even hide behind seats?

It depends on what he can find on the train, and hiding doesn't serve much, since he's going against a super trained soldier while restricted to melee.

Edit: this wasn't supposed to be posted so early, I'm addressing other arguments in the next post.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Shouldn’t Finn have stealth mastery?

 

[SamanPatou]

1. The Demon is leagues above people who have Analytical Prediction (Axiom), so while I do 100% believe The Demon will struggle with Chisato's AP, it won't be impossible to land hits on Chisato like Popted is saying.

Bear in mind that defeating someone with AP doesn't mean you have the same ability or greater ability.
It also depends on the efficiency of such prediction, and from what I remember of Axiom, it's good on paper but not incredibly effective in pratice, but I could be wrong.

2. I'll concede on skill for now, as The Demon doesn't have an ability like AD that will make him match Chisato in skill.

It's not even about that, Bálor has trained to be an athlete even in-canon, while from what I read, Chisato's basically been trained to be a supersoldier since the age of 7, it's a whole different deal of skills, habits, experiences etc...
Even in real life, to which WWE tends to stick in this regard, a whole difference is marked between someone who lives to fight for sport, with rules and everything, and someone who is specifically trained to be a soldier.
Of course the argument is a little in the clouds, and many irl soldiers are closer to normal people than you'd expect, but it depends and exceptions aren't difficult to be found, especially when you look at some specific forces, and Chisato's gimmick, from what I've seen so far, is the treshold of the superhuman.

Once again, Chisato doesn't use lethal bullets in-character. She uses rubber bullets, the bullets that are much weaker and slower than her normal ones, so they're not as big of a factor as people are making it out to be. Rubber bullets are useful, don't get me wrong, but it's not the end all be all of this fight.

They aren't the end, but Bálor's still going to be a walking target, unable to get close, reply, dodge or basically handle Chisato's range + shooting skills, senses and experience anytime soon.
The environment also doesn't help, Bàlor will keep getting hit until Chisato runs out of cartridges, and according to her file, she's got awhile stocked in her suit.
And while his dura surely helps, Chisato's aiming to sensible and weak spots kinda makes up for it.

All of this, along with being superior to Axiom, should be more than enough to keep up with Chisato's Analytical Predict.

It depends, is their AD good enough to read muscles and clothing movements? Irl it is possible to a very low extent, and unless theirs also breaches into the supernatural like Chisato's, Bálor will still struggle quite a bit.

 

[DemonicDude]

Shouldn’t Finn have stealth mastery?

For which?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

For which?

he manipulates the lights and smoke to appear and attack enemies. Shouldn’t that count as Stealth?

 

[DemonicDude]

he manipulates the lights and smoke to appear and attack enemies. Shouldn’t that count as Stealth?

It is if he wants, Since you never know where he's gonna show up Seth Rollins was looking all over the arena.

 

[Popted2]

he manipulates the lights and smoke to appear and attack enemies. Shouldn’t that count as Stealth?

For the LS wires thing she uses. Does she used that on someone who can contend with her physically LS wise?

Fair on the terrain thing. But the lights out and teleportation thing being used is what makes me unsure. But even if this isn't a wrestling match I'm wondering if those can be appplied.


Gonna be honest if he has Analytical Prediction Resistance it should be listed on his profile. #4 doesn't really sound like a good argument but I do agree with the bullets thing.

wanna vote now? many arguments have been made by both sides

 

[Arnoldstone18]

It is if he wants, Since you never know where he's gonna show up Seth Rollins was looking all over the arena.

Okay then Stealth Mastery should be on his page

wanna vote now? many arguments have been made by both sides

I may not vote.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

wanna vote now? many arguments have been made by both sides

Yeah I think I'm gonna vote Chisato. I'm not convinced that Finn would abuse his more supernatural powers which was the only reason I held back.

 

[Pikaman]

wanna vote now? many arguments have been made by both sides

The guy with Finn Bálor in his signature and as his pfp hasn’t had a chance to give input yet, just saying…

 

[Pikaman]

I’m gonna be busy for a few more hours, but I am (somewhat desperately) asking people wait before damning Finn here and keep an open mind when I present my arguments

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

In that case yeah withholding my vote to wait for your response. I think everyone wouldn't mind waiting anyway.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I’m gonna be busy for a few more hours, but I am (somewhat desperately) asking people wait before damning Finn here and keep an open mind when I present my arguments

Not gonna give any credit to me for holding it down?

I see how it is...

 

[Pikaman]

Not gonna give any credit to me for holding it down?

I see how it is...

I literally haven’t even got a change to glance at this thread I don’t know who is saying stuff and what they’re saying

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I’m gonna be busy for a few more hours, but I am (somewhat desperately) asking people wait before damning Finn here and keep an open mind when I present my arguments

Don't want to be that guy but i afraid waiting you would only drag this tourney for too long especially how busy you are in IRL right now

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

We have like many other matches to do. Even if the round 2 matches start, waiting a bit isn't too bad honestly

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Yeah but what i'm saying here is he should just focus on IRL instead being anxious over fiction debate, fiction debate is temporaly but IRL stuff are the number 1

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Yeah but what i'm saying here is he should just focus on IRL instead being anxious over fiction debate, fiction debate is temporaly but IRL stuff are the number 1

Oh easily agreed. But if it's just minor busyness then no need to pressure.

But if you're likely gonna be very busy Pika it might be better not to participate

 

[Pikaman]

The thread isn’t even 24 hours old, Jesus.

I was busy today because we were performing a school show tonight, Rehearsals for that have left me very busy IRL ever since Mid-September, but my lack of availability should start to wind down now with a bit of luck

I’ll begin drafting up my post, gimme a bit

 

[Pikaman]

her analytical prediction let her easily preditc Finn actions, so he will never lend a hit on her and instead counter him with her bullets

As I believe Random mentioned below, Finn is above those who can outmatch Analytical Prediction users through sheer skill alone in skill, which will allow him to at least somewhat circumvent this issue. As well as matters I plan to discuss below, this makes Analytical Prediction a very minor part of the equation

knock him out

This is a big one. I see a lot of mentions of “K.O.” as a possible win condition here, without the acknowledgment that The Demon would have to be out cold 24 whole hours. That’s EXTREMELY unlikely, and while it presents itself as a definite possibility, it’s not the massive win-con it’s been propped up as.

His teleportation also doesn't seem combat applicable.

Nah, The Demon isn’t hugely partial to it in the ring, but has used it to get the jump on people before, and is more than capable of doing against Chisato, who’s Analytical Prediction explicitly falters when up against sneak attacks

The fact they start at such a range also means Balor is kind of a free target and would take most if not all the rubber bullets

Isn’t Chisato only effective with a gun at extremely close range due to her poor aim? The large range really benefits The Demon more, who can teleport to close the gap and surprise a Chisato who is still analysing the situation before her.

Also, we must remember that the battle takes place in a bullet train, and this favors Chisato

I went completely the opposite direction. When I read the OP I was very happy with the bullet train, because it actually allows Finn to utilise his light manipulation, his easily most solid win-condition here.

but the enclosed space makes it even more difficult for Balor to avoid the bullets and the restraining tool

Chisato still has a notoriously poor aim, and cannot afford to waste time in the ranged exchange as it leaves her vulnerable to a light manip + teleport combo that will punish her hard

 

[Pikaman]

There is a brief snippet of my arguments before I sleep to prove I do in fact have stock in this match - I have much more to mention and this is NOT intended as even a completed debunk of the above arguments, never mind my own arguments for Finn, which I have barely tapped into whatsoever. The rest will come sometime tomorrow in all likelihood

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I think you're forgetting something Pika.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

His teleportation also doesn't seem combat applicable.

It is combat applicable and it should be Stealth Mastery instead

 

[Pikaman]

I think you're forgetting something Pika.

Yes, actually, I am…

Thanks for holding down the fort while I was away, and apologies for not acknowledging your efforts in my last few posts

 

[Pikaman]

There is a brief snippet of my arguments before I sleep to prove I do in fact have stock in this match - I have much more to mention and this is NOT intended as even a completed debunk of the above arguments, never mind my own arguments for Finn, which I have barely tapped into whatsoever. The rest will come sometime tomorrow in all likelihood

This is code for don’t FRA chain Chisato while I sleep, if I didn’t make myself clear

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Chisato FRA

 

[RandomGuy2345]

@Pikaman you owe me two now for giving ya boi Finn IA, as well as defending him in this thread.

Don't forget this too, Pika...

 

[Pikaman]

Chisato FRA

Motherfu-

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Motherfu-

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Keeping an eye on but Chisato's "bad aim" is a pretty big claim. I'm not sure if I believe it. Though all the other stuff sounds reasonable.

Will wit for your AP res tomorrow. Thanks for posting but yeah take your time on this.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Keeping an eye on but Chisato's "bad aim" is a pretty big claim. I'm not sure if I believe it. Though all the other stuff sounds reasonable.

Nah.

It's been said before in previous threads that Chisato doesn't have the best aim with her rubber bullets. She has more accuracy when she's up close, which will be extremely detrimental, as The Demon can just use his Light Manip + Teleportation to get the jump on her.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

As I believe Random mentioned below, Finn is above those who can outmatch Analytical Prediction users through sheer skill alone in skill, which will allow him to at least somewhat circumvent this issue. As well as matters I plan to discuss below, this makes Analytical Prediction a very minor part of the equation

Well even so i believe Chisato can hold on this one

This is a big one. I see a lot of mentions of “K.O.” as a possible win condition here, without the acknowledgment that The Demon would have to be out cold 24 whole hours. That’s EXTREMELY unlikely, and while it presents itself as a definite possibility, it’s not the massive win-con it’s been propped up as.

Don't see how this going to change the outcome tbh

Nah, The Demon isn’t hugely partial to it in the ring, but has used it to get the jump on people before, and is more than capable of doing against Chisato, who’s Analytical Prediction explicitly falters when up against sneak attacks

Still pretty inconsistent to say

Isn’t Chisato only effective with a gun at extremely close range due to her poor aim? The large range really benefits The Demon more, who can teleport to close the gap and surprise a Chisato who is still analysing the situation before her.

Even if he has AP res the teleportation still going to be countered, and yet again inconsistency

I went completely the opposite direction. When I read the OP I was very happy with the bullet train, because it actually allows Finn to utilise his light manipulation, his easily most solid win-condition here.

Same can be said on Chisato with the battlefield and i think you outsell this light manip too much
Like this battlefield benefit so much on Chisato favor so i fail to see how this going to Finn favor

Chisato still has a notoriously poor aim, and cannot afford to waste time in the ranged exchange as it leaves her vulnerable to a light manip + teleport combo that will punish her hard

I feel like the "poor aim" isn't that much of big deal if you ask me

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

And yeah, my point still remain stand if you ask me, i think we can start counting the vote now while the debate can still ongoing

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Skill capable of taking on those with analytical prediction as well as stealth via light and smoke manipulation to not only counter her analytical prediction entirely but also disorientate her. I’m leaning towards Finn Balor.