How strong are the shockwaves in the manga of DBS?

[Amexim]

So, my argument is this;

1. Most official translations mention "destruction". We already have someone posting scans of the English translations saying that they're going to destroy the universe. Even if a bad fan translation says "jeopardy", the general meaning is still preserved.

2. I don't really think most detractors for the anime even care about the 2.5 punches thing, or the shockwaves destroying a planet and a star somewhere else— in fact, they'd probably use that as an argument against Universal Goku, call Beerus the reason for that, or say "they didn't destroy the universe" and that fact is enough to "debunk" it. So I don't think a bunch of smaller things and semantics are what make this showing any more or less universal. I will say that the 2 or 3 punches thing seems like more of a decent amount of evidence to me, as it makes it clear how strong they are and how fast they're going to accomplish this feat. Doesn't change much of it though, as even shaking 2 universes to the point of compromising their, well, structural integrity with just shockwaves should make you well into universal.

The fact of the matter is that their punches were strong enough to generate shockwaves that would destroy the universe— 2 universe sized structures, the afterlife, and the living world. That's at least 3-B, likely 3-A. Those shockwaves aren't just shaking two universe sized structures, they're going to destroy them.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

^^^

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIQ1-eGGndc

 

[SomebodyData]

I guess I'll leave my argument here as well?

1. Which means little without more detail, ie death of the author. Saying "the entire universe will be destroyed" is something that has been repeated several times throughout dragon ball, even Frieza was a threat to the universe or something amoung those lines.

2. Shaking the universe like so was already calced at 4-B to 3-C, not at least 3-B, likely 3-A. Destroying the universe in 2-3 punches is 3-B through 3-A, however, once again, death of the author, he doesn't say that, espically since Goku doesn't counter the destruction in this interpretation, whereas the anime it was a direct and immediate issue. In fact, they then go on to use stronger attacks with no issue with still no counter.

 

[AKM sama]

"The entire universe would be destroyed" was only used for Buu IIRC. And yes it would have been destroyed but in a long time seeing how Buu does his destruction.

In this case, the universe would have been destroyed as a direct result of the fight. I don't see why we should dismiss the statement just because it is not elaborated upon when even the arcs were rushed at that time and nothing was as much elaborated as the anime.

 

[SomebodyData]

I'm pretty sure it was used to describe Cell at one point and Frieza at multiple points actually.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZCPmtp00IGA/hqdefault.jpg < I already even found one for Frieza.

Again, death of the author, being rushed doesn't change the fact that quite frankly there is not enough info to go off on. Especially when Fusion Zamasu's biggest threat was that he would destroy the galaxy.

 

[Bluetrekking]

http://web.archive.org/web/20160727...all-super-feats.1042070/page-17#post-54365048

^The original calc that gives super high-end 4-B.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

I'm pretty sure it was used to describe Cell at one point and Frieza at multiple points actually.
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZCPmtp00IGA/hqdefault.jpg < I already even found one for Frieza.

Again, death of the author, being rushed doesn't change the fact that quite frankly there is not enough info to go off on. Especially when Fusion Zamasu's biggest threat was that he would destroy the galaxy.

Fused Zamasu doesn't want to destroy the Universes though... He also knows of Zeno and fears him... When he was Black and Zamasu he said that he didn't want Zeno to find out his actions...

You caould also say the exact same things for the anime...

 

[SomebodyData]

@KOME he didn't care at that point, he just wanted Goku dead.

No, you can't. They remind us that the characters can bust the universe like every 20 episodes (Cough cough Kefla cough cough countless other times cough). In the manga, its stated once in that fight, tho Champa states he doesn't care if the universe is destroyed if he goes at full power, so 3-A GoDs?

 

[AKM sama]

Well Zamasu was pretty beaten up when he made that threat. Also, that could just mean that he didn't want to destroy the whole universe. A universal being making threat of destroying a galaxy is same as DBZ when a solar system level being makes planet level threats.

Also, Vegito in the manga was stated to be comparable to Beerus.

 

[ByAsura]

@SD

Zamasu stated he will wipe Goku out of existence along with this galaxy.

He doesn't boast it like "I have enough power to destroy a galaxy, i could murder you in an instant". He's threatening to kill Goku, which would destroy the Galaxy.

Why those statements matter? The shockwaves were resonating throughout U7 and its Kai Realm and the universe shaking, those other statements have no backing, like Frieza, Cell, and Buu being Universe busters. Anyway, most of those statements, including that one, have different context to them, like Cell "intending to destroy the universe" means over time, or that statement itself, "Destroy the Universe as we know it" sounds more like he'd destroy the normal way of life in the universe.

Edit: In the actual translation he boasts a little, saying i'll wipe you out of existence along with the whole galaxy. But my point still stands.

@AKM

They said he was stronger. People like to say that it was only via his final kamehameha, but what he said was "The power of Vegito could it.... already be greater than Lord Beerus'. So it refers to before the final kamehameha.

 

[Amexim]

1. It doesn't take much to recognize the difference between Frieza as a universal threat, and this fight. To claim that there isn't is a false equivalence, and trying to slippery slope this isn't a good argument either. In none of those fights were there shockwaves that genuinely reached across the universes— in none of those fights was there a single genuine demonstration of something on that scale— other planets were cracking as a result of this fight as well.

2. So, doubling the result of shaking the universe would still be 4-B? Still doesn't explain how 4-B impacts and shockwaves can cause the DESTRUCTION of a macrocausm the size of two universes. So, that calc is either irrelevant or needs to be adjusted for this context. Nappa shaking the planet is far different from him shaking it to the point of destruction— and then we can recognize that the actual AP of these characters is far higher than the COLLATERAL damage they're causing with their energy. Goku playing extreme patty cake with Beerus and the clapping of their hands creating a force strong enough to shake two universe sized structures to the point of almost destroying them as a result of their shockwaves, bro, don't tell me that someone actually getting hit by the hands that caused these shockwaves aren't going to be hit with more force than the shockwaves. Someone calc the difference between the shockwaves/air pressure that comes from us clapping or punching hands together, and the force of our actual punches against each other's.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

^^

Gotta admit, he has a point

 

[SomebodyData]

I'll concede, given that the new english translation says destroy and Ame made a good point. However, without the tier gap, manga Goku is probably not coming as the only differences now are a few abilities and a transformation.

 

[Dark649]

Agree with Data, few abilities are not since its only Hakai and the MSSB is not important.

 

[Therefir]

What about manga Zamasu?

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

And Personality, Manga Goku looks like he retained some of his character development from the Buu Saga

 

[SomebodyData]

@Dangai that is opinion based. Its not much.

@There Zamas (Thankfully) is almost entirely different, so he can come.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Guess we'll have to see it if he did retained that development ?

Also thank god that the DBS Manga has blood, the anime only has that weird saliva. It feels more chaotic, just my opinion

 

[SomebodyData]

I mean, unless its like Manga Zamas and Anime Zamas in terms of how different their characters are, then it probably won't be enough.

That's true, the blood makes it feel less watered down.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Zamas and Even Goku Black to some extent were different

 

[ByAsura]

Snip

Were you talking to me or Data, if it's me i was arguing this.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

The waves are shown reaching the Kaioshin realm.

It is pretty much 3-A.

 

[ByAsura]

Anyway, about the Zamasu thing.

He might retain this ability. He says let's see how strong my power can get, then powers up, it might just be him suppressed though.

Healing.

Telekinesis.

Teleportation and Fire Manipulation.

He can paralyse.

And obviously has Immortality types 1, 3, and 8.

 

[SomebodyData]

Nice, Paralysis and Telekinesis helps, fire manip makes him a bit versatile.

Do you want me to list some of Fused Zamas' abilities or no?

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

So, are manga DBS pages coming?

 

[SomebodyData]

Yes, except for Manga Goku, he's too similar at this point. (Though if we get more stuff like what we got with Goku learning Hakai, he'll probably get one eventually.)

 

[SomebodyData]

Portal Creation as regular Merged Zamasu.

Duplication and Shapeshifting as Infinite Fusion Zamasu.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

That might be the case in the future because some interview says that the manga will go beyond the anime.

So maybe we will see Goku break thru dimensions and erase his name off Death`s list.

 

[SomebodyData]

Maybe instead of Ultra Instinct he gets Destruction Energy? One could argue he is already on that path given he already has Hakai.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Who knows at this point.

The thing is, Manga Goku will probably go beyond ToP and Anime DBS Goku might get some new feats from the new Movie, i hope its some Saint Seiya Overtune tier stuff.

 

[SomebodyData]

I'm hoping more defensive abilities like resistances to common but haxed abilities.

But we're getting off topic, is there any abilities I missed with Fused Zamas?

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

I guess we already have everything, wait didn't he create Katchin cubes to throw them at Vegetto ?

 

[Dark649]

Yes, he indeed throwed the Katchin cubes.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

And what would that be ?

 

[DMB_1]

And what would that be ?

Creation

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

So we have that too for Zamasu


NINGEN

 

[Linkfoi12]

Wait, shouldn't Great Priest have Creation then.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Yeah he DID create the World of Void and the Tournament of Power Stage and maybe the Kakatchin metal rock ?

 

[Linkfoi12]

I don't think it was ever mention he created the World of the Void, but he did create the Tournament of power stage, and the "Super" Kakatchin metal rock.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Meh, still, Creation tho