Hopes and Nightmares: Asriel Dreemurr vs. Antasma

[Jinsye]

I've been itching to make an Asriel match

Antasma has the Dream Stone and Asriel is using a fraction of his power.

Speed is =

Who wins?

Asriel Dreemurr: 0

Antasma: 0

 

[Jinsye]

Bump

 

[Jinsye]

Bump

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Can Antasma even kill Asriel without him reseting or destroying his soul?

 

[Jinsye]

bump

 

[DatOneWeeb]

I think Antasma one-shots or puts him to sleep.

 

[Planck69]

I think Antasma one-shots or puts him to sleep.

SAVE and LOAD mean that killing Asriel would be pointless as he just comes back to the beginning of the fight. There's also the fact that DT could allow him to shorten the gap somewhat (considering that it took Frisk from 9-A to 2-C) but that's neither here nor there. Asriel tends to open with soul absorption so I'm really not sure how the match would go.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Then sleep manipulation can easily incap Asriel. A single hit from Antasma induces sleep. And as far as I'm aware, that hasn't worked against Frisk.

 

[Planck69]

Then sleep manipulation can easily incap Asriel. A single hit from Antasma induces sleep. And as far as I'm aware, that hasn't worked against Frisk.

Cause Frisk resists? Or are we ignoring how he absorbed thousands of souls in an instant? Again, the very first attack that Asriel leads with would beat Antasma and unlike the latter's attack, isn't a projectile that can be dodged.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Wait wait, when did he ever start off with soul absorption? That was Flowey prior to becoming Asriel, his first attack during actual combat is fire manipulation. Antasma transforms into several bats, hits Asriel once, makes him sleep.

 

[Planck69]

Wait wait, when did he ever start off with soul absorption? That was Flowey prior to becoming Asriel, his first attack during actual combat is fire manipulation. Antasma transforms into several bats, hits Asriel once, makes him sleep.

He still attempts to take Frisk's soul regardless only Antasma doesn't have resistance, DT and the like helping him here. Even ignoring that, Asriel goes for Danmaku most of the time and even one hit would kill Antasma since all of his attacks ignore the latter's durability. I highly doubt he's even dodging all of that to, epecially since he's actively moving closer to Asriel to begin with.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

I don't remember Asriel attempting to absorb Frisk's soul. Can you link this. His first move isn't very crazy compared to his other attacks, so I see no reason why Antasma can't really dodge it. Antasma's first attack is by transforming into a large swarm of bats, which they then fly at their opponent. Say Asriel ends up killing some of these bats (which won't be easy due to the large hoard and small size), it won't affect Antasma as killing any of the bats during this move in the game doesn't affect him at all. I doubt Asriel won't get hit at least once during this move, since we haven't seen him ever dodge a single attack, much less an entire swarm.

 

[Planck69]

I don't remember Asriel attempting to absorb Frisk's soul. Can you link this. His first move isn't very crazy compared to his other attacks, so I see no reason why Antasma can't really dodge it. Antasma's first attack is by transforming into a large swarm of bats, which they then fly at their opponent. Say Asriel ends up killing some of these bats (which won't be easy due to the large hoard and small size), it won't affect Antasma as killing any of the bats during this move in the game doesn't affect him at all. I doubt Asriel won't get hit at least once during this move, since we haven't seen him ever dodge a single attack, much less an entire swarm.

It's more implied that he wants to do this initially during the early parts of the fight but let's just put that aside for now. Asriel isn't going to let a swarm of bats try to hit him anyway so he'd either just destroy them manually (you really seem to underestimate his Danmaku) considering how a swarm of bats won't really be too much of a problem or erase the timeline and everything in it (including Ant) if he sees that their too annoying to kill with normal atttacks.

 

[Jinsye]

Sleep manip should still proc SAVE and LOAD tbh, if you can SAVE and LOAD when dead there's no reason you shouldnt be able to SAVE and LOAD while unconscious since DETERMINATION sorta acts independently

 

[Planck69]

Sleep manip should still proc SAVE and LOAD tbh, if you can SAVE and LOAD when dead there's no reason you shouldnt be able to SAVE and LOAD while unconscious since DETERMINATION sorta acts independently

Most likely. If you have enough DT then you sorta just...recover and keep on fighting. It can be circumvented but definitely not by anything that Antasma has. Even if it could, Asriel could just erase Ant with the timeline anyway.

 

[Listentomyrhytm]

For a moment I misread and thought it was Asriel against Antvasima.

 

[Planck69]

For a moment I misread and thought it was Asriel against Antvasima. </div>

 

[Lord_JJJ]

I don't see how Antasma can beat Asriel thanks to his Save and Load

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Then incon, if you've seen Asriel's starting move, his "danmaku" is NOT something really crazy. Seriously, just watch it. A single hit is going to make Asriel fall asleep, I heavily doubt Asriel is going to be able to kill all of them.

 

[Jinsye]

Again, i dont think sleep manip would counter SAVE and LOAD as DETERMINATION acts differently from Asriel

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Exactly, neither will end up winning.

 

[Jinsye]

Asriel does keep his memories after the reset doesn't he? Maybe he'd eventually figure out shitty blasts of fire aren't the best

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Iirc, he actually doesn't use similar attacks if you end up dying and restarting. We can use Sans as an example as he doesn't use different moves in the start. While one could argue game mechanics, those are canon within Undertale.

 

[Planck69]

Asriel isn't going to continue his Danmaku barrage once he realizes that it isn't enough to deal with the swarm of bats in-front of him. He's gonna use his best option to get rid of his oponent and that just so hapens to be erasing the timeline and it's contents.

 

[Jinsye]

1. You literally can't die during Asriel's fight so bad example.

2. Sans knows about other timelines, he doesn't keep his memories.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

1. You can technally "die" Frisk just reforms their souls and the battle restarts.

2. Sans is aware of the fact that Frisk can reset yet he never changes his attack pattern, and I think this is the same case with all monsters. Even if Asriel resets the battle, due to game mechanics being canon, he always starts off with the same attacks.

 

[Planck69]

1. You can technally "die" Frisk just reforms their souls and the battle restarts.
2. Sans is aware of the fact that Frisk can reset yet he never changes his attack pattern, and I think this is the same case with all monsters. Even if Asriel resets the battle, due to game mechanics being canon, he always starts off with the same attacks.

1. Pretty sure that was just Frisk's Low to Mid-Godly regen working.

2. If Asriel is the one resetting then he'd remember what happens in the battle. Some features are canon but definitely not all of them.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

It essentially works the same way as her reset, it restarts the battle.

Both characters would still remember about the reset, the in-game moves as to what Asriel would use is definitely canon. The fight starts and ends the same.

 

[Planck69]

It essentially works the same way as her reset, it restarts the battle.
Both characters would still remember about the reset, the in-game moves as to what Asriel would use is definitely canon. The fight starts and ends the same.

....What? That was pure game mechanicsl, nothing more. You could make an argument for Asriel opting to use those attacks on his own but game mechanics aren't canon in this case.

 

[Jinsye]

"Sans is aware of the fact that Frisk can reset yet he never changes his attack pattern, and I think this is the same case with all monsters. Even if Asriel resets the battle, due to game mechanics being canon, he always starts off with the same attacks."

Yes, he knows about the fact that Frisk can reset, however he has no clue what's going on in alternate timelines. He doesn't know what attack he used 5 resets ago, he just knows that Frisk can reset.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Why wouldn't game mechanics work in this case? You need to actually explain why we can choose what kind of game mechanics are and aren't canon. Leveling up is canon, enemies standing still is canon, hp is canon, defense, saving your game, the attack options, etc are, I see no reason why we're cherry picking which one.

No, if Sans has the knowledge that Frisk has the ability to restart the fight, then he should at least realize that the moves he's choosing are the same. Because Sans keeps his memories from battle, he's aware that he killed Frisk before, he's aware that the timelines are being altered. He then proceeds to claim that they suddenly end. I see no reason why Sans wouldn't keep his memories, it makes more sense for him to legitimately know.

 

[Jinsye]

Sans is a scientist, he's done research on this stuff. He doesn't keep his memories but he knows this stuff due to his research as shown in the basement.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Sure he's done research on this stuff, but then how do you explain the fact that he can count your own deaths in the game?

 

[Jinsye]

He says it he can do it by just looking at your face.

"That's the face of a person who died X times now"

 

[DatOneWeeb]

That doesn't disprove what I said. He's obviously saying this to taunt you as he wants you to quit the game, which is evidenced by his false spare. Hell, that statement is vauge itself.

 

[Jinsye]

He's likely examining your expressions than keeping his memories, or else he'd have Acausality type 1.

Considering he says "hm... that expression" many times I think it has more evidence than assuming he keeps all of his memories

 

[Planck69]

He says it he can do it by just looking at your face.
"That's the face of a person who died X times now"

That's more the game being cheeky than anything. But it is implied that he's aware of there being resets but doesn't keep any memeory of them. A feat of intelligence more than anything.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Sans however does give out little hints and you've been able to do actions you would only do during the first run of the game, or that you do them too easily.

 

[Planck69]

Sans however does give out little hints and you've been able to do actions you would only do during the first run of the game, or that you do them too easily.

I'm confused, what are we even arguing about anymore? I'm sorta lost at this point.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Yeah, I think we went off topic. Let me start over. Due to the fact that in Undertale fights, whenever the battle restarts, the bosses will always have the same attack patterns.