High godly regen and True godly regen should be removed

[PaChi2]

I mean, DontTalk's explanation sounds impressive because we are talking about Regenerationn after being erased by a Higher dimensional being. Having the rest of your universe erased wont make you more "erased" than you already were.

 

[Andytrenom]

@Pachi It isn't just about the person who erases you being higher D, having the fiction you exist in itself vanish already sounds like it would need far greater than mid-godly. However, "entirety of your fiction being erased" has far deeper implications than "every timespace continuum introduced so far in your verse being destroyed" so I still don't the comparision actually gives a good reason to leave high godly as is.

 

[Overlord775]

Mid-Godly is being able to come back from getting completly erased, conceptual erasure is just stronger EE, so coming back from that would just be really good Mid-Godly

 

[Andytrenom]

Good enough conceptual erasure wouldn't just be a more powerful EE it would mean reality has been fundamentally altered in a way to not contain you any more, imagining you shouldn't be possible, sentences wouldn't exist that reference the erased person and the person not only never existed but doesn't have the ability to ever exist.

This is significantly distinct from having the mind body and soul erased.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Shouldn't High Godly just become "being able to be erase from existence and non-existence"? We have nothing in the godly regen which said that a character can come back from this.

 

[Overlord775]

@Andy

Just like regenning from Quantum destruction is vastly better than Atomic Destruction, but yet both are High Regen

also erasing someone from all levels of existance is in fact, just really good EE

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Ultima and DontTalk seem to make sense to me too.

Powers and abilities stuff are not really my thing though.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Another way to look at it is that high-godly is basically smurf mid-godly.

Which methods do work on mid-godly? Concept stuff, law stuff, logic stuff and powernull that can negate that kind of regen.

The former 3 fail since the character could regenerate without their realoties versions (remember type 2 concepts and below are all restticted to their own reality). Same can be argued for the latter given its limited range.

If the void you regen in and your Regenerationn in it is independent of all things limited to your reality that can also be regenerating in such a void. That is far above standard mid-godly, though, and needs more evidence than regenerating in some random void. Not even the type 2 version of the concept of nothingness would exist in those.

 

[Andytrenom]

@Donttalk Just want to have this clarified, if a character regenerates after having infinite timelines destroyed and infinite timelines is what the verse's full size has shown to be, would that be high godly by current standards?

 

[Antvasima]

@DontTalkDT

Would you be willing to improve on the explanations for High Godly and True Godly Regenerationn, if that is deemed necessary? The current wordings seem to cause misunderstandings.

 

[KingPin0422]

Gonna throw in my two cents.

Conceptual erasure of a type 3 variety should remain as Mid-Godly. IIRC Aristotelian concepts are bound to their respective object, so if you erase someone's existence completely (i.e. body, mind and soul), you would also erase their concept via a domino effect.

High-Godly should be regenerating from type 2 conceptual erasure, and True Godly should be regenerating from type 1 conceptual erasure. This would not only keep the overall gist of what High/True Godly are supposed to represent (or at least True Godly; High-Godly is a little different), but it would also satisfy the supporters of both "High-Godly should be retroactive erasure" and "High-Godly should be conceptual erasure".

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Indeed, if the concept is even based on the idea that "there is no space-time coordinates to regenerate", what about the characters who regenerate without having the "universe" destroyed, but do so in the non-existential void of their respective universes?
They are also regenerating in nothingness, but they need not have been destroyed together with their universes because they already regenerate in a void.

Interested in this.

 

[The_Causality]

I've thought that High Godly come from an Universal destruction of all the reality including concepts, if the High Godly definition change into "someone who can come back from a Conceptual Existence Erasure", things won't change much imo

 

[Executor_N0]

(remember type 2 concepts and below are all restticted to their own reality).

If the void you regen in and your Regenerationn in it is independent of all things limited to your reality that can also be regenerating in such a void. That is far above standard mid-godly, though, and needs more evidence than regenerating in some random void. Not even the type 2 version of the concept of nothingness would exist in those.

But isn't Type 2 conceptual manipulation "False Platonic Concept" and "Such concepts, or forms, are mostly transcendent of reality. These concepts shape all of reality and whatever level that reality exists in, and everything in reality "participates" in these concepts" ?

Type 1 concepts, "True Platonic Concept", are 1-A in nature... Why would a character need to be erased in 1-A level and then regenerate to have "High Godly", while this should be True Godly ?

 

[Andytrenom]

Exactly what I was thinking

 

[DontTalkDT]

@Donttalk Just want to have this clarified, if a character regenerates after having infinite timelines destroyed and infinite timelines is what the verse's full size has shown to be, would that be high godly by current standards?

For a character that operates on at most universal scale certainly. For a multiversal character more debatable. I would argue that the generalized multiversal laws/concepts/whatever also govern the space between universes, or specifically the whole 4 spatial dimensions of the multiversal space. So just regenerating from erasing the portions with universes might actually not suffice, as the character/mechanism can just exist between the universes. Or said differently, reality here should probably refer to the entire multiversal space-time.

@DontTalkDT

Would you be willing to improve on the explanations for High Godly and True Godly Regenerationn, if that is deemed necessary? The current wordings seem to cause misunderstandings.

Regarding high-godly I can do that if a sufficient degree of agreement is met.

IIRC my understanding of true-godly varied from that of Sera. I think I would rather keep my hands out of that for now.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Type 1 concepts, "True Platonic Concept", are 1-A in nature... Why would a character need to be erased in 1-A level and then regenerate to have "High Godly", while this should be True Godly ?

? I'm not talking about any type 1 concepts. I only talk about local ones, that is type 2 and below. Those that only affect a certain area (universe/multiverse/other level of existence).

A high-godly regen character doesn't need to survive type 1 concept erasure.

 

[Andytrenom]

Then I disagree, regenerating from having every timeline of your verse destroyed should not be rated above regenerating from the destruction of your type 2 concept

Your statement about type 2 concepts being restricted to their reality doesn't seem accurate if reality in this context refers to a normal multiverse made of multiple 4-D universes,since even in the Concept manipulation page they are described to be transcendent of the verse's reality.

 

[Antvasima]

@DontTalkDT

Okay. Thank you for the help.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Your statement about type 2 concepts being restricted to their reality doesn't seem accurate if reality in this context refers to a normal multiverse made of multiple 4-D universes,since even in the Concept manipulation page they are described to be transcendent of the verse's reality.

I don't think transcendend on the concept manipulation page (type 2) means they exist on a higher plane of existence, but that they exist on the abstract plane of their reality. Hence we can talk about one reality having a certain concept and another not having it, in the type 2 sense, not just about them applying and not applying.

Of course if we talk just about erasing the contents (creating a vacuum) that is a different story to erasing the reality.

 

[Andytrenom]

I'm pretty sure they are supposed to exist on a higher plane, Type 2 concepts are supposed to be the same thing as the ideal forms Plato described except not 1-A. Ideal forms exist in a greater or more real world than that of time space not just a different abstract plane, and the same goes for type 2

 

[PaChi2]

Anyone can summarize the current topic of discussion? Im kinda lost, sorry.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Discussion about concepts to decide if regenerating from type 2 concept denstruction is as impressive as regenerating from complete lack of any concept, if I got it right.

 

[Andytrenom]

"Regenerating from complete lack of any concept"

Heh? The discussion is if it's more impressive than the full destruction of your multiverse not the lack of all concepts.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

As far as I understood... Dark's point was that the complete destruction of the multiverse would lead to no concepts being left. I might be wrong, but destroying the multiverse completely is what is needed for High-Godly as is.

 

[Andytrenom]

Dark? But that's what is questionable, if a simple multiverse destruction actually would lead to all concepts being destroyed

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

But if they aren't destroyed there is no actual reason to assume the Regenerationn would be hindered at all.

Regenerationn being tied to a location to regenerate in at this level is not something I often see as a weakness, and a characters inability to survive in a void makes no sense with such level of Regenerationn, but seems also like a specific weakness.

The Regenerationn needed to shouldn't need to be stronger there, at difference of being conceptually erased, or some "non-existence" erasion bull (how we don't allow soul manipulating a souless but allowed erasing nonexistence is beyond me)

 

[Andytrenom]

Have you actually seen a person with feats of soul manipulating a soulless be not allowed to do it?

 

[PaChi2]

"If the void you regen in and your Regenerationn in it is independent of all things limited to your reality that can also be regenerating in such a void. That is far above standard mid-godly, though, and needs more evidence than regenerating in some random void. Not even the type 2 version of the concept of nothingness would exist in those."

Thing is, "reality" is as vague as it can be. And most times its assumed to be a bunch of space time continuums, whose destruction shouldnt be a reason to rank anybody above mid-godly regen because the only thing they survived was a random nuke.

If I may give a suggestion:

If Mid-G qualifies as Regenerationn after Body/soul/mind/existence erasure, High godly could be Regenerationn after the former + 2 of: conceptual erasure (type... 2?), causal erasure (paradoxes, erasing someone from history, etc.), higher dimensional erasure (smurfing is da wae), reality erasure ("being destroyed in all possible levels" I guess?)...?

 

[KingPin0422]

Gonna throw in my two cents.

Conceptual erasure of a type 3 variety should remain as Mid-Godly. IIRC Aristotelian concepts are bound to their respective object, so if you erase someone's existence completely (i.e. body, mind and soul), you would also erase their concept via a domino effect.

High-Godly should be regenerating from type 2 conceptual erasure, and True Godly should be regenerating from type 1 conceptual erasure. This would not only keep the overall gist of what High/True Godly are supposed to represent (or at least True Godly; High-Godly is a little different), but it would also satisfy the supporters of both "High-Godly should be retroactive erasure" and "High-Godly should be conceptual erasure".

To clarify:

If we're going off of the assumption that Mid-Godly works by reality having "backups" of the character in question, does one need to destroy all of reality to get rid of them? Arguably, erasing the Platonic archetype behind the character's existence would achieve the same effect.

If a Platonic Form is erased, the object associated with it doesn't merely cease to exist - it simply never existed to begin with, and it doesn't have the possibility to ever exist. This extends to every single iteration of the object, across all universes and timelines.

TL;DR: Platonic erasure entails being removed from the very setting of the verse, to the extent that your existence becomes fundamentally impossible. Thus, reality would not have any "backups" of you.

If you can experience this and still come back, that should be High/True Godly in any case.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Why would reality hold backups of you, to begin with?

 

[TriforcePower1]

Your platonic concept still exists, for example.

 

[The_Causality]

Why would reality hold backups of you, to begin with?

Concept definied as Platonic are immuable, infinite, transcendant and eternal, in this theory, the concept we all know and "interact" is just a "reflect" or a "shadow" of the real concept as your shadow will be always you and don't be affected by other interaction, they are beyond all things in the universe

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

I wonder how durable concepts are, they could even have no durability (baseline 11-C), as the concept of "durability" does not apply to them.

 

[KingPin0422]

Why would reality hold backups of you, to begin with?

I'm just using one of the explanations given for High-Godly's current state. I don't believe in it at all, but I still thought that it was worth addressing.

 

[Konaguna]

Shit bruh.

Mid-Godly=Come back from getting erased

High-Godly=Come back from being erases along with your reality


Shit isn't hard to understand, y'all like to overcomplicate shit too much and continuously change everything until nothing makes sense anymore, you ain't never satisfied just like 5 year old kids

 

[Overlord775]

coming back from you and reality being erased isn't harder than coming back from just getting erased

 

[Konaguna]

Yes it is. If you get erased in yo reality then that mean you ain't even exist in the first place since the setting where your existence was now no longer there but just gettin erased just mean you not exist from a certain point.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Calling others 5 years old while making typos (I doubt you meant the "until shit makes sense" to justify us) and throwing in shit in there a few times per sentence for good measure isn't the wisest.


And you would have to explain why the universe getting erased matters.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Yes it is. If you get erased in yo reality then that mean you ain't even exist in the first place since the setting where your existence was now no longer there but just gettin erased just mean you not exist from a certain point.

No. Any proper erasure erases you from time retroactively, see Monika for exemple.