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High godly regen and True godly regen should be removed

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Which is why we're taking suggestions on how to differentiate the two. My comment above isn't our current standards, it's how I think it should be.
 
To me, not needing or being affected by the destruction of the container that holds your... Everything... is Mid + Boundlessness, because that Container never held you or harmed you in the first place.

High Godly seems to be regenerating when even though you would normally be affected by the destruction of your "sheet of paper" you come back anyway?
 
Wait.. Standard existence eraser on the wiki destroys the dimensional aspects of the person a/effected along with their mind, body, and soul????
 
I still think that making a separation between how deep into "Reality" the erasure that different characters can recover from would be good.

It's not the same coming back from having your "Everything" erased on a single point in time, than on a timeline or conceptually from a multi-layered "Reality". Our current Mid-Godly doesn't seem to make the distinction.
 
Matt are you always too busy with 50 other threads or real life things to... Elaborate on your points? Because whenever I see your first post, it's usually am opposed opinion with little explanation on why? Often times you have the best arguments, but we have to press you for them, can you please elaborate? You'd probably be better at reasoning out a distinction than I could.
 
TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:
Wait.. Standard existence eraser on the wiki destroys the dimensional aspects of the person a/effected along with their mind, body, and soul????
Click to expand...
I meant the comment in this sense: say you got a guy named Joe, regular human. Joe exists in 3 spatial dimensions. Erasing him fron existence erases his presence in those 3. However, to erase him retroactively would also erase his presence across a temporal axis.
 
Matt does do that a lot, but in fairness to him I did ask for people to hold off on actually debating one another's methods until we can get a list of options.

So far, we got:

  • High Godly starts when erasure gets retroactive (me)
  • High Godly starts when you regen even past the destruction of that which contains your "essence" (Amiexim)
  • A distinction between "deeper" or more intracite layers of reality (Dvorak)
  • Durrent definition (Matt)
  • Old true godly (Luka)
 
Which seems way different than erasing the 4 dimensional grid as a whole, making it so that he and all of everything that he ever could exist, implying his soul as well, otherwise you're just erasing his body and not his Soul, which is only physical EE, which would be... Maybe Low-Godly?

It seems like these Regenerationn tiers depend more on Dimensions and concepts and higher tier things and stuff inherently than it is "regenerating". Because depending on if this EE on a scale akin to erasing the dimensional grid of the target's reality counts as erasing his soul or the concept of himself, they can just regenerate from the concept of themself or their soul or whatever metaphysical thing that still exists even if their "grid" is destroyed, because their soul and the concept of them might still exist.
 
I disagree with having High-Godly transform to retroactive. That's just causality manip/time manip thrown into the mix. It isn't exactly harder to resist or even better than normal mid-godly- it doesn't destroy you any more than non-retroactive would.

I still put forth the conceptual destruction being High-Godly since mind body and soul are generally the only requirements for Mid-Godly. Believe Dragonmaster also said this a bit back. High-Godly as it stands needs to go.
 
Me as a new user find the current definetion of high godly to be very confusing.. and this isn't the first time the definetion has confused others..

@wokstation.. this is why i am confused.... this was on the notes in the tiering page ... "All characters have an infinite number of dimensional aspects, most of which have a magnitude of zero. A character which is classified as n-dimensional has non-zero magnitude in n number of dimensional vectors."
 
@uograde in an infinite dimensional cosmology, yes. Dont think you can really erase soneone's 4D existence if they don't even have one.

To clarify, I wasn't saying dimensional structure itswlf was getting erased. I was using the word dimension in the sense of "the dimensions of tbis box are 2x4".
 
High-Godly: The ability to regenerate even after the totality of your existence is erased, alongside the reality that you are present within that exists up to your own dimensional level.

This just means, say for instance you are 3-D and have mid-godly somehow

If someone erased you mind, body, soul and whatever else you had along with the entire 1st, 2nd and 3rd dimension there would be no way for you to regen since you aren't higher dimensional so you can't regenerate within the 4th or higher dimensions

If you had high godly however you could regenerate without needing the third dimension to exist and you could still regenerate as a 3d being without being higher d
 
I think having Conceptual Regenerationn being the standard for High Godly works, except for the fact that Mid Godly would... Cover that, maybe. And that it's kind of similar to Low-Godly in the sense that you're regenerating from something Abstract instead of physical, which most EE doesn't cover unless specified. Hakai erases the Soul and the Body/Mind, but other kinds just erase the body, and unless you use a Multiversal Hakai-specified EE, I don't see how dimensions make any difference unless your Soul is tied to the "Grid" you exist in and is bound to that.

What about a general "Godly" definition that just encompasses Godly Regenerationn from Low to True and lists examples of it? Because we can do the reduction that we did to Mid-Godly to low Godly as well, and the only thing that stops us is Arbitrarily choosing "Concepts" as the anchor instead of the Soul or Mind, which is a fair one as the former implies your "self" is gone, but what you are isn't...?
 
Paul Frank said:
High-Godly: The ability to regenerate even after the totality of your existence is erased, alongside the reality that you are present within that exists up to your own dimensional level.
This just means, say for instance you are 3-D and have mid-godly somehow

If someone erased you mind, body, soul and whatever else you had along with the entire 1st, 2nd and 3rd dimension there would be no way for you to regen since you aren't higher dimensional so you can't regenerate within the 4th or higher dimensions

If you had high godly however you could regenerate without needing the third dimension to exist but you could still regenerate as a 3d being
Click to expand...
wwouldn't that just be a form of reliant immortality based on relying on a lower dimesnional plane to exist? That said person will continue to regenerate as long as the 3rd dimension exist. even if mind body and soul earsed...?

But if the 3D being had high godly regen. if the entire 3rd dimesnion was erased along with his mind, body, and soul. he would regenerate in a void? so he no longer is reliant on the lower dimension (3rd dimension?) that still sounds like mid godly to me though...
 
If we're moving on to debating:

@Amexim I find your two examples of boundless mid and high to be lacking in distinction. If you're supposedly reliant on your container but Regen from it being destroyed, can you really be said to actually rely on it? I don't see a difference between your two.

@bambu Retroactive stuff would be better via erasing even the oroginal state of which the Regen attempts to get one to. With Regenerationn, one repairs damage until reaching their original form, with mid godly allowing one to get back to that form even from absolutely nothing. However, Retroactive stuff would make it so that oroginal form never existed even in the first place, the user never achieved that power, there is nothing to return to, etc.
 
I mean a 3d being kinda needs the third dimension to exist in order to exist usually
 
Whether or not the abilities constitute as "Regenerationn" in the truest sense of the definition seems to be more linguistics, as the ability in question would function the same regardless of what we call it.

So I'm neutral on this.
 
My problem with conceptual stuff is how we qualify concepts in so many different ways now. Revising from the Erasure of type 4 or even 3 stuff doesn't come across to me as particularly impressive compared to just regular mid godly, as those concepts are already affected by the object participating in them so they'd be being messed around with anyways.
 
I disagree. I wasn't really planning on moving back to debating, merely putting forth an option not represented in your comment. Retroactively doesn't really harm any part of your more than normal mind/body/soul.
 
How would it not though? It's affecting your existence across another axis, and rendering it so that there never even was an original state to regen to in the first place as opposed to mid which has an existing prior template.
 
from what i understand Mind, body, and soul. Lets say a sword can stab somebody and earse the target that is stabbed. It stabs a person. His mind, body, and soul was erased to nothing. Then he regens.. That is mid godly....

High godly would be when the sword erases the entire universe he is within and he regenerates from that? The person's dimensional state doesn't change but the universe that was a 3+1D space-time continuum no longer exist and is only void with 4 or higher dimensions?

It doesn't matter how i try to forumlate the thought.. it still sounds like reliant immortality + mid godly regen + Surviving in a void....Or no longe rbeing reliant on something for immortality + mid godly regen + Surviving in a void...

the current defention is just confusing...

@paul frank?


i plan to observe the ideas more before i throw in any ideas of my own...
 
Wokistan said:
How would it not though? It's affecting your existence across another axis, and rendering it so that there never even was an original state to regen to in the first place as opposed to mid which has an existing prior template.
Click to expand...
Would that be resistance to regen negation if a character regenerated from that..?
 
And a Type 2 concept is equally as above everything else, whereas what you refer to is largely either time manip or causality manip.
 
It's not reliant immortality since any being that doesn't transcend dimensions needs the dimension they reside in to exist in order to exist themself. Unless you want ton give every non high 1-B that has regen type 8 reliant on their dimension.

Surviving in a void wouldn't help with that situation though since you were completely erased along with every dimension up to and including yours meaning not only is there a void but there is no way for you to regen since you are not higher dimensional

@upgrade
 
A large part of why it's like that is because they function retroactively themselves. I'm trying to stay away from just being like "lol concept" because we have enough problems defining those already.
 
Woki. That's fair as ****, because the distinction is kind of... Meaningless... I think think there is a distinction. Maybe? But it does the same thing.

What I now think is better;

Low-Godly; Regen from no physical existence using a Soul/Disembodied essence that still exists in some way (dimensions or not, considering that regenerating outside of your reality/without the dimensions that make you up existing can be a form of any level of Godly Regen, so maybe the container isn't important, unless that container is where your Soul exists and destroying that destroys your soul)

Mid-Godly; Regenerating from no Soul/Essence using Concepts or some sort of external and independent abstract.

High-Godly; Regenerating from no Concept or some sort of external and independent abstract, using something beyond even concepts...?

True Godly; Regenerating no matter what.
 
High godly regen only applies to higher dimensional beings? I was just using how the examples we both used seemd to have reliant immortality in there, but infinite dimensional characters, and 1-A is someting id like to stay away from..


the current definetion of high godly is still very confusing... and im still not understanding..

Are we refering to the dimensional value of a target, or the entire dimensional X-number they are within? Both??? doesn't existence erasure already do that though just on a smaller scale???

it all just sounds like Mid Godly regen whcih the baseline is regenerating from nothingness isn't it? Mind, body, and soul?

is the current definetion for high godly regen Mind, body, soul and the dimesnional value/aspect that makes up a person?
 
High godly regen applies to any being who can regenerate even if every dimension up to the one they exist in are destroyed

For instance a 3d being that is erased completely along with the 3rd dimension and all dimensions below it. If they only have mid-godly they stay erased. If they have true godly they come back.

The current definition is saying that if they character is x dimensional and every dimension up to and including dimension x is erased along with the character and the character stil comes back then they have high godly.
 
I also much prefer to keep High Godly and True Godly Regenerationn as they are. The former signifies that the rest of existence can regenerate you even if nothing remains, and the latter that you can regenerate on a completely abstract and metaphysical level, beyond all definitions and degrees of physical reality.

Forced sudden, mostly half-considered, changes of issues that we have extensively discussed previously are also not at all good for the wiki.

At the very least, you should contact DarkLK about it. Sera and Azathoth would also work, but they are currently busy IRL.
 
I think True-Godly is an important distinction, but High-Godly is pretty arbitrary. If any change should occur, it's that High-Godly should be fused into Mid-Godly and True-Godly should take its place.
 
@Promestein

What about characters that are regenerated by the rest of existence, even after they are erased?
 
I'd rather not merge High-Godly with Mid-Godly. And it's not entirely arbitrary but I think I'll point something out. There are different levels of existence erasure; such as having body, mind, and soul erased Vs "being completely erased from the pages of history".
 
I think High-Godly could be fixed with a better description to make it not as arbitrary, but if we cant find a proper replacement description they could work as a last resort, although it would massivly increase the difference bewteen baseline Mid-Godly and high end Mid-Godly.
 
I don't understand why True Godly is necessary.

To use ant's explanation "regenerate on a completely abstract and metaphysical level, beyond all definitions and degrees of physical reality"

Seeing as 1-As are already "on a completely abstract and metaphysical level, beyond all definitions and degrees of physical reality", why make the distinction? If they regenerate from having an arm on a completely abstract and metaphysical level, beyond all definitions and degrees of physical reality, chopped off, why not just say that's a 1-A with Low-Mid and leave it at that? It's still the 1-A regenerating their arm.

Also, the definition of True Godly is regenerating after being "erased on a level beyond the confines and concept of dimensions"

Seeing as 1-As are already "on a level beyond the confines and concept of dimensions", this is basically just Mid-Godly but for 1-As. Why do we need to give them a specific tier of Regenerationn just for them?
 
@DDM That's true. Regenerating from conceptual destruction is always what I thought the next level after mid godly should be. High godly if I'm being honest is still not easy for me to get my head around
 
"What about characters that are regenerated by the rest of existence, even after they are erased?"

That's Type 8 Immortality, not Regenerationn.

Because it's a much higher scale of Regenerationn; it's useful to know the scale, especially when there are non 1-A characters with such a scale of Regenerationn, such as TES characters.
 
What about for non 1-As with True-Godly because they where erased by a 1-A, that seems far more severe than basic Mid-Godly.
 
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