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High 8-C Brackets Round 6
- Thread starter Dargoo_Faust
- Start date
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- #82
I'm not sure how it's used for defense, Ren just chucked a bunch of projectiles.Dragonmasterxyz said:
I find it hard to believe that regular old Digimon have data manip that ignores the resistances of people who resist being data maniped, as none of the profiles have resistance negation, nor would it make sense given any fight between Digimon.Dragonmasterxyz said:
I'd also like to see the mindhax/soulhax feats. Smith could control hundreds of avatars he transformed into himself. Mindhaxing a single opponent through data manip doesn't hold a candle to that.
The mind and soulhax are done through manipulating data, so yes, it's absolutely relevent as Neo is also made of data and resisted it being tampered with.Dragonmasterxyz said:
I'd hardly consider Neo a "baby Digimon" if strength = resistance here. Again looking at smith's feats I doubt Ren's data hax would apply here.
Resistance Negation only applies to the level of resistance negated. Negating the resistances of a baby Digimon vs. resisting Smith's datahax, which can work on hundreds of people simultaneously, makes it pretty clear Neo resists it here.
Yes, he would resist having his mind/soul manipulated if it's done through manipulating his data, which he resists.Dragonmasterxyz said:
Even then what Smith does is pretty explicitly mindhax too, so eh.
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"in case they abuse these violent Overwrites then the corruption in their own Program may end up leading these Digimon to death."Dragonmasterxyz said:
Seems like an ability Ren can't abuse.
And the only thing that seems consistent about it is a power boost.
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I never said Renamon could abuse it though? One Overwrite should be enough.
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I'm not saying you did, I'm just asserting the claim that it can't be abused so people don't get the wrong idea.
It killing Ren if used excessively can also be seen as a weakness if the fight goes on for long enough.
It killing Ren if used excessively can also be seen as a weakness if the fight goes on for long enough.
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Prepare for some reading.
"First a history lesson. We do not know the origin of Hyperdimensions and higher worlds, so I'll talk only about the Digital World and Real World.
Before the Real World existed, all that existed was Idea (The True Form of the World), Souls and Demiurge, the soulless being. Demiurge did not know who created him, because he was different, or even less knew the truth about souls or Idea. Then Demiurge created his own world, a world that would be the shadow of Idea. This World is the Real World.
In Idea the nature was chaotic until then, because the concepts that would determine the laws were not defined, the world contained the dualities that denied each other and therefore nothing was defined. In a moment, the will that controlled Idea decided which concepts would reign on Idea and from there the nature of Idea became more orderly.
The World would follow the concepts of life, positive feelings, evolution, and everything, which would be symbolized by the Light. Meanwhile, the concepts of death, non-evolution, negative feelings and nothingness were represented by the Darkness and separated from Idea by the Wall of Fire , the other side of the Wall of Fire would become the world of darkness, the Dark Area. To maintain the balance between Light and Darkness, an entity was created. The name of this entity is Homeostasis, the one who wants the universal equilibrium.
The inhabitants of Idea were Souls, and they followed the laws determined by the concepts that governed Idea, that is, they followed evolution. Souls faced each other, the winner would absorb all that the loser had, would reduce it to nothing and then after a long time the soul that always won could undergo a process known as evolution. The losing souls would be erased, but since they had the capacity for self-Regenerationn, they could come back to exist. Unless the laws of the world deny such ability.
Idea and the Physical World were separate places, between the two there was a barrier that was known as Dimensional Wall. It should not be possible to have a connection between the worlds, but sometimes the souls of Idea were recognized by the inhabitants of the physical world, the opposite also occurred.
The inhabitants of the Physical World were not sure what the inhabitants of Idea were, so legends were created to explain what they were. There were those who attributed souls to divine abilities, being an explanation for a manifestation of the gods. Others thought that souls were Youkais, and appeared in the physical world possessing objects after thousands of years. It is known that the notion of humans changed over time, and the interpretation of what souls were would also change.
In 1995 a soul eventually fell into the Physical World, it interacted with humans and something incredible happened, it evolved very quickly. The flow of time between the two worlds was different, and although it seemed to the Physical World that evolutions would occur in a few days or hours, it would take Idea thousands of years for a Soul to evolve. Another soul was sent to collect the previous soul and after that, the essence of the surrounding humans was gathered to discover the cause of it.
It was discovered that one of these children had a special essence, an attribution responsible for the acceleration of souls, the more the person developed the essence in question the more the soul would evolve. Other children were also analyzed as having these essences, they were named from personality elements such as courage, friendship, purity, love and others. The special child could not be qualified in the same way, it simply represented the very essence of life and evolution, so he had the Light as its essence.
In this way he could say that the psychological development of humans could accelerate evolution. This was interesting and responsible information for Homeostasis research on the interaction between humans and souls increase. In one of the universes of the Physical World, in the year of 1997 scientists rediscovered the souls.
In this way he could say that the psychological development of humans could accelerate evolution. This was interesting and responsible information for Homeostasis research on the interaction between humans and souls increase. In one of the universes of the Physical World, in the year of 1997 scientists rediscovered the souls. As you may have noticed, in every age of humanity souls are rediscovered and a nature is attributed to them, scientists thought that souls were computer viruses, responsible for problems in the functioning of the network. Such viruses were discovered as having the ability to develop, fight, and then evolve. After a while, it was decided to call the souls by the term of Digimon, Digital Monsters.
Yes, the Digimon are in their nature the souls that existed in Idea that ended up being rediscovered today and were attributed to them a digital nature. Thinking about the Digimon as data beings, living on the internet is just the interpretation of the actuality of what the Souls are.
As you noted, the Digimon are very sensitive to the positive feelings of humans, this is because the nature of the Digital World follows very much the concepts of feelings that are part of Evolution / Light. The development of feelings means the development of souls.
Idea collects human feelings and shows it to them, the nature of Idea is something perceived according to what the person wants to see. It is not possible for a Human to interact naturamente with souls, therefore the souls always appeared in forms that the humans could recognize. That's why the Digimon seem to be inspired by things from our world, the truth is that we see the Digimon so because it makes more sense for our minds to see them that way.
The Digimon are not the only things that are influenced by the development of feelings, the Idea itself is also configured as such. Idea collects thoughts and forms to them, with the current thoughts based on the internet, Idea presents itself as a Digital World. It should be noted that Idea has a unique composition, it is a Platonic world where Universals exist, Idea's own composition was something unique. Nowadays one thinks of Idea as being formed of Data, everything that composes this world is simply a set of information that is interpreted in a way. Matter, Mind, Energy, Soul, Time, etc .; everything is just Data.
We human beings can not accurately interpret the Souls, if we see them in their true form we would only see a bright sphere. (The same thing happens with other beings, like Eaters). The "Digicore" of which you refer is simply the true form of the Soul. The body that is seen is simply a shield, a type of shield to protect the real essence of the soul. When the body is destroyed, the soul immediately creates a new protection to try to protect itself until it is possible to reconstitute the body, which is why when a Digimon "dies" is left a Digiovo, in fact that is a protection that reverts the Soul until be possible to evolve again.
Humans in a sense HAVE Digicore, because Digicore is just a term used by humans to refer to the true essence of a being. Data is a current term to refer to a Universal Substance, which can be used for anything. So we use only the term "Digimon can affect Body, Soul and Mind" just because it is a simpler way of explaining this. The most correct explanation would be "Digimon are capable of affecting the basic and universal composition of everything that exists". That is, they are capable of affecting Data that is the source of the composition of what is known as mind, soul, matter, history, etc.
Everything in the Digital World can currently be explained as the ability to interact and manipulate Data, if everything is made up of Data then a really powerful being can manipulate everything on any scale (This is the level of beings like Yggdrasil). Humans see things separately, so they just physically interact with each other, emotions interact with emotions and things like that. For the Digimon and other beings of this nature, all this is only seen as a single thing: Data. So if everything is Data, everything can be affected by them (This was said directly in Hackers Memory).
The reason the Digimon have resistance to "soul, mind, etc." is because the body we see is actually a defense system that prevents direct interaction with the essence of the Digimon. To really affect a Digimon, it is necessary to destroy the body to then interact with the true form of it. But normally, the essence creates a defensive measure and creates a new defense to protect it, an egg-like structure. Otherwise, the essence is destroyed. If the essence is something Universal and is destroyed by someone who affects a Universal structure, then nothing else exists. Therefore a "Soul" (Note that when I speak of Soul referring to the Digimon, I just refer to their original nature, not just talking about "souls" as we normally speak) destroyed no longer exists, so it will end in Dark Area, which is a place where nothing exists that is where everything that is deleted goes.
Remember when I said that the Digital World fits the thinking of humans? That's why the Digimon often think like humans. If humans actually see the Digital World as a computer world, this feeling will affect the Digimon and many of them may believe it. And since everything is simply Data, then if the collective feeling of Humans ceases to believe in something, or decides to believe in something then the very nature of the Digital World adapts to it. That's why many Digimon, even knowing they challenge the logic of the human world, end up questioning their own existence based on the common sense of humans (And they often do this without even realizing they are doing so).
This goes far beyond mere physical change, again as everything in the Digital World is simply Data, so if thought determines that something is not possible, then everything is affected, including time itself. That's why when all humanity stopped believing in the future, the Digimon lost the source of accelerated evolution. (They could still evolve, but again it would take thousands of years for this to happen.) In this way the story itself has been altered, and if it is now believed that evolution does not exist, then the story is modified and then ... evolution really never existed. This is basically the entire Xros Wars plot.
So you should not see Digimon affecting Digicore as the reason for all this, that's just a simplification. Digimon are beings from a higher world made entirely of a universal substance, all we have in our physical world is actually a creation of Demiurge using that substance as the basis. Everything we have in our world is a part of the Data, the Digimon as fully digital beings are capable of completely affecting the Data. That is why Digimon can affect the mind, soul or body of humans, because the Digimon can reach every part of what makes up a human being."
Reading this is indeed important but for convenience, here's the TL;DR.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Executor_N0/Digimon_Franchise:_Nature_of_the_Data
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...Franchise:_Data,_this_subject_is_not_over_yet
"First a history lesson. We do not know the origin of Hyperdimensions and higher worlds, so I'll talk only about the Digital World and Real World.
Before the Real World existed, all that existed was Idea (The True Form of the World), Souls and Demiurge, the soulless being. Demiurge did not know who created him, because he was different, or even less knew the truth about souls or Idea. Then Demiurge created his own world, a world that would be the shadow of Idea. This World is the Real World.
In Idea the nature was chaotic until then, because the concepts that would determine the laws were not defined, the world contained the dualities that denied each other and therefore nothing was defined. In a moment, the will that controlled Idea decided which concepts would reign on Idea and from there the nature of Idea became more orderly.
The World would follow the concepts of life, positive feelings, evolution, and everything, which would be symbolized by the Light. Meanwhile, the concepts of death, non-evolution, negative feelings and nothingness were represented by the Darkness and separated from Idea by the Wall of Fire , the other side of the Wall of Fire would become the world of darkness, the Dark Area. To maintain the balance between Light and Darkness, an entity was created. The name of this entity is Homeostasis, the one who wants the universal equilibrium.
The inhabitants of Idea were Souls, and they followed the laws determined by the concepts that governed Idea, that is, they followed evolution. Souls faced each other, the winner would absorb all that the loser had, would reduce it to nothing and then after a long time the soul that always won could undergo a process known as evolution. The losing souls would be erased, but since they had the capacity for self-Regenerationn, they could come back to exist. Unless the laws of the world deny such ability.
Idea and the Physical World were separate places, between the two there was a barrier that was known as Dimensional Wall. It should not be possible to have a connection between the worlds, but sometimes the souls of Idea were recognized by the inhabitants of the physical world, the opposite also occurred.
The inhabitants of the Physical World were not sure what the inhabitants of Idea were, so legends were created to explain what they were. There were those who attributed souls to divine abilities, being an explanation for a manifestation of the gods. Others thought that souls were Youkais, and appeared in the physical world possessing objects after thousands of years. It is known that the notion of humans changed over time, and the interpretation of what souls were would also change.
In 1995 a soul eventually fell into the Physical World, it interacted with humans and something incredible happened, it evolved very quickly. The flow of time between the two worlds was different, and although it seemed to the Physical World that evolutions would occur in a few days or hours, it would take Idea thousands of years for a Soul to evolve. Another soul was sent to collect the previous soul and after that, the essence of the surrounding humans was gathered to discover the cause of it.
It was discovered that one of these children had a special essence, an attribution responsible for the acceleration of souls, the more the person developed the essence in question the more the soul would evolve. Other children were also analyzed as having these essences, they were named from personality elements such as courage, friendship, purity, love and others. The special child could not be qualified in the same way, it simply represented the very essence of life and evolution, so he had the Light as its essence.
In this way he could say that the psychological development of humans could accelerate evolution. This was interesting and responsible information for Homeostasis research on the interaction between humans and souls increase. In one of the universes of the Physical World, in the year of 1997 scientists rediscovered the souls.
In this way he could say that the psychological development of humans could accelerate evolution. This was interesting and responsible information for Homeostasis research on the interaction between humans and souls increase. In one of the universes of the Physical World, in the year of 1997 scientists rediscovered the souls. As you may have noticed, in every age of humanity souls are rediscovered and a nature is attributed to them, scientists thought that souls were computer viruses, responsible for problems in the functioning of the network. Such viruses were discovered as having the ability to develop, fight, and then evolve. After a while, it was decided to call the souls by the term of Digimon, Digital Monsters.
Yes, the Digimon are in their nature the souls that existed in Idea that ended up being rediscovered today and were attributed to them a digital nature. Thinking about the Digimon as data beings, living on the internet is just the interpretation of the actuality of what the Souls are.
As you noted, the Digimon are very sensitive to the positive feelings of humans, this is because the nature of the Digital World follows very much the concepts of feelings that are part of Evolution / Light. The development of feelings means the development of souls.
Idea collects human feelings and shows it to them, the nature of Idea is something perceived according to what the person wants to see. It is not possible for a Human to interact naturamente with souls, therefore the souls always appeared in forms that the humans could recognize. That's why the Digimon seem to be inspired by things from our world, the truth is that we see the Digimon so because it makes more sense for our minds to see them that way.
The Digimon are not the only things that are influenced by the development of feelings, the Idea itself is also configured as such. Idea collects thoughts and forms to them, with the current thoughts based on the internet, Idea presents itself as a Digital World. It should be noted that Idea has a unique composition, it is a Platonic world where Universals exist, Idea's own composition was something unique. Nowadays one thinks of Idea as being formed of Data, everything that composes this world is simply a set of information that is interpreted in a way. Matter, Mind, Energy, Soul, Time, etc .; everything is just Data.
We human beings can not accurately interpret the Souls, if we see them in their true form we would only see a bright sphere. (The same thing happens with other beings, like Eaters). The "Digicore" of which you refer is simply the true form of the Soul. The body that is seen is simply a shield, a type of shield to protect the real essence of the soul. When the body is destroyed, the soul immediately creates a new protection to try to protect itself until it is possible to reconstitute the body, which is why when a Digimon "dies" is left a Digiovo, in fact that is a protection that reverts the Soul until be possible to evolve again.
Humans in a sense HAVE Digicore, because Digicore is just a term used by humans to refer to the true essence of a being. Data is a current term to refer to a Universal Substance, which can be used for anything. So we use only the term "Digimon can affect Body, Soul and Mind" just because it is a simpler way of explaining this. The most correct explanation would be "Digimon are capable of affecting the basic and universal composition of everything that exists". That is, they are capable of affecting Data that is the source of the composition of what is known as mind, soul, matter, history, etc.
Everything in the Digital World can currently be explained as the ability to interact and manipulate Data, if everything is made up of Data then a really powerful being can manipulate everything on any scale (This is the level of beings like Yggdrasil). Humans see things separately, so they just physically interact with each other, emotions interact with emotions and things like that. For the Digimon and other beings of this nature, all this is only seen as a single thing: Data. So if everything is Data, everything can be affected by them (This was said directly in Hackers Memory).
The reason the Digimon have resistance to "soul, mind, etc." is because the body we see is actually a defense system that prevents direct interaction with the essence of the Digimon. To really affect a Digimon, it is necessary to destroy the body to then interact with the true form of it. But normally, the essence creates a defensive measure and creates a new defense to protect it, an egg-like structure. Otherwise, the essence is destroyed. If the essence is something Universal and is destroyed by someone who affects a Universal structure, then nothing else exists. Therefore a "Soul" (Note that when I speak of Soul referring to the Digimon, I just refer to their original nature, not just talking about "souls" as we normally speak) destroyed no longer exists, so it will end in Dark Area, which is a place where nothing exists that is where everything that is deleted goes.
Remember when I said that the Digital World fits the thinking of humans? That's why the Digimon often think like humans. If humans actually see the Digital World as a computer world, this feeling will affect the Digimon and many of them may believe it. And since everything is simply Data, then if the collective feeling of Humans ceases to believe in something, or decides to believe in something then the very nature of the Digital World adapts to it. That's why many Digimon, even knowing they challenge the logic of the human world, end up questioning their own existence based on the common sense of humans (And they often do this without even realizing they are doing so).
This goes far beyond mere physical change, again as everything in the Digital World is simply Data, so if thought determines that something is not possible, then everything is affected, including time itself. That's why when all humanity stopped believing in the future, the Digimon lost the source of accelerated evolution. (They could still evolve, but again it would take thousands of years for this to happen.) In this way the story itself has been altered, and if it is now believed that evolution does not exist, then the story is modified and then ... evolution really never existed. This is basically the entire Xros Wars plot.
So you should not see Digimon affecting Digicore as the reason for all this, that's just a simplification. Digimon are beings from a higher world made entirely of a universal substance, all we have in our physical world is actually a creation of Demiurge using that substance as the basis. Everything we have in our world is a part of the Data, the Digimon as fully digital beings are capable of completely affecting the Data. That is why Digimon can affect the mind, soul or body of humans, because the Digimon can reach every part of what makes up a human being."
Reading this is indeed important but for convenience, here's the TL;DR.
- The "Digicore" is just a representation of the true essence of a Digimon, the "Soul". Digimon are actually "souls" that have been interpreted in various ways by mankind in the past have been called gods or youkais, are currently called the Digimon because they are visible through electronic devices.
- The reason the Digimon affect "matter, soul, mind" is not because they hit "Digicore" but because Digimon are beings made of a universal composition, which is interpreted by the humans as being "Data."
- Data is the basic source of everything, which means that everything is made of Data. Digimon are formed from Data, so they can affect Data. If everything is made up of data, they can affect everything.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Executor_N0/Digimon_Franchise:_Nature_of_the_Data
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...Franchise:_Data,_this_subject_is_not_over_yet
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There only really seemed to be two points worth adressing there:
The reason the Digimon affect "matter, soul, mind" is not because they hit "Digicore" but because Digimon are beings made of a universal composition, which is interpreted by the humans as being "Data."
So is Neo.
Data is the basic source of everything, which means that everything is made of Data. Digimon are formed from Data, so they can affect Data. If everything is made up of data, they can affect everything.
So is Neo. And he resisted his Data being overriden by someone who could do this and control hundreds of individuals, something that is of a degree far higher than "being able to affect mind/soul/etc." due to their being made of data in the Digi-World.
Let's throw the data stuff out of the picture though.
If anything, Neo's digital self is just a digintal avatar of his real self, so it possesing a soul is questionable.
He definitly resists the mindhax though; as what Smith does is explicitly mind-based in many aspects.
The reason the Digimon affect "matter, soul, mind" is not because they hit "Digicore" but because Digimon are beings made of a universal composition, which is interpreted by the humans as being "Data."
So is Neo.
Data is the basic source of everything, which means that everything is made of Data. Digimon are formed from Data, so they can affect Data. If everything is made up of data, they can affect everything.
So is Neo. And he resisted his Data being overriden by someone who could do this and control hundreds of individuals, something that is of a degree far higher than "being able to affect mind/soul/etc." due to their being made of data in the Digi-World.
Let's throw the data stuff out of the picture though.
If anything, Neo's digital self is just a digintal avatar of his real self, so it possesing a soul is questionable.
He definitly resists the mindhax though; as what Smith does is explicitly mind-based in many aspects.
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@Dragon
Was there an issue with putting the wall of text into a collapsible to help make the thread less of a mess to go through?
And honestly giving specific ecerpts from what you're talking about to adress my points would make this much more convinent than dropping the entirety of it in one comment.
Was there an issue with putting the wall of text into a collapsible to help make the thread less of a mess to go through?
And honestly giving specific ecerpts from what you're talking about to adress my points would make this much more convinent than dropping the entirety of it in one comment.
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I was having issues on my end. Couldn't get things to work for some reason despite it being a copy and paste. It's weird.
While I disagree that the Data in Matrix is anything like the Data in Digimon due to it not exactly being the same and I feel there are some misunderstandings here. As of now, Neo resists basically everythig Renamon can do.
Neo FRA.
While I disagree that the Data in Matrix is anything like the Data in Digimon due to it not exactly being the same and I feel there are some misunderstandings here. As of now, Neo resists basically everythig Renamon can do.
Neo FRA.
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I suppose that solidly places this match in Neo's favor.
To be fair Neo's profile doesn't really get into the nitty-gritty of his resistances; only stating he resisted possesion despite what Smith was doing being a combination of Data/Mindhax/Transmutation.
To be fair Neo's profile doesn't really get into the nitty-gritty of his resistances; only stating he resisted possesion despite what Smith was doing being a combination of Data/Mindhax/Transmutation.
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That information would have been nice to know as well...as nothing on his file even so much as implies what you mentioned.
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Renamon FR - wait. This match had debate. I can't put a moral support vote in
cries
cries
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Clearly Neo is a Digimon and thus he had a hidden wall of text detailing his powers that no one could see.
Neomon
Adult Class/Champion level Vaccine Attribute God Man Digimon
Neomon
Adult Class/Champion level Vaccine Attribute God Man Digimon
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Just wanna say that Smith only rewrote other NPCs one at a time and after they were rewritten, no more effort was required to keep them that way. Nothing says that the NPCs resisted the hacking in the first place either.
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Nani?AnonymousBlank said:
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Neomon X looks the exact same but instead of wearing black, it's vanta black
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Not entirely.AnonymousBlank said:
Each Smith clone can also create new smith clones by data maniping people; and Smith can also individually control all of them.
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Don't forget Neomon X also has a Resistance to Existence Erasure (Those with the X-Antibody can resist multiple levels of Program X/Particle Worm which is a mass erasure technique from Yggdrasil. This technique is so powerful that it even threatens the likes of Beelzemo who needed to gain the X-Antibody to survive it) and Power Nullification (Can resist the effects of Particle Worm in which also negates all the abilities of those effected).
Dargoo add this resistance to Neo's file please? ovo
Dargoo add this resistance to Neo's file please? ovo
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Thats because they are all Smith. Its a hive mind of Hugo Weaving's. The bodies also never hack more than one NPC at a time and only one attempted to hack Neo. That is extremely basic when compared to Renamon who being a Child has superior resistance and bypassing than Baby2s who in turn have better resist and bypass than Baby1s, who have the basic resist and AP if we aren't counting Digitama (who actually counts the tama though?).
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Leaked image of Morphemon XDragonmasterxyz said:
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What a majestic being.Dargoo Faust said:
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Smith still has the capacity to control them all at the same time, in a coordinated fashion.
As a Hivemind they are multiple bodies controlled by the same Smith.
"Harming someone's mind/soul data" is far more basic than "Overriding someone's data in its entirety to something else".
As a Hivemind they are multiple bodies controlled by the same Smith.
"Harming someone's mind/soul data" is far more basic than "Overriding someone's data in its entirety to something else".
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^I've wanted to address that actually. I will make a thread on it as it will effect many files.
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NEXT ROUND IS UP, CLICK HERE Combatants are Starman and J'zargo!
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