Marvel Comics Herald Tiers Upgrade to 3-C

[The_Impress]

Because DC supporters can't create their own threads so they try to force their revisions in Marvel ones

 

[SuperAPM]

Because DC supporters can't create their own threads so they try to force their revisions in Marvel ones

 

[Swerzye29038]

OT: 4-A, possibly 3-C still seems reasonable

 

[ObberGobb]

That would make Thor's base key be "High 6-C, 4-A, possibly 3-C at peak, higher with the Thermo-Blast, up to 2-C, possibly 2-A with the God Blast". Is that too long? I'd personally be fine with it, but I can understand if people think its too much.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Btw for the record with the Nova calc don't use it as a supporting feat for Nova as we have no clue how far away he was from the blast, 4-B end is like the furthest we can assume he was off visuals

 

[Eficiente]

It can't be poetic if it has already been shown on multiple occasions that Thor can in one way or another shake the universe, plus in a few comics later on the narrator states that Galactus and Ego shook the universe

Can you link this cases?

Why should he be if he only emphasizes the capabilities of his power?

He is, but that doesn't attribute that not being able to be a hyperbole for his power being too great.

This statement is vague, but if you have the context that the character has a 4-A/3-C power, this statement supports these levels.

Of course.

As well.

Have to disagree, it's very clear by context that he doesn't mean as in anything 4-A or 3-C, he's dealing with someone hiding, he's willing to mess things up to deal with this, mess up planets (w/o annihilating 'cause why would he), and by extension the galaxy and cosmos. feat

Well, show proof, because I'm seeing that Thor can fly from Asgard to Earth without using any kind of artifact.

I think it's pretty clear from the narrative statement that this is an omnidirectional expansion that originates in Asgard and reaches all the way to Earth.

So powerful is the enchanted sweep of Mjolnir
so all consuming is its thrust
that even on the far distant earth, skyscrapers are shattered like puny playthings
and towering mountain peaks area toppled by the awesome force

Can't do due to lack of time, ignore it as it is, I can only hope someone to pay attention and see to it. It's also not really an artifact, it's a physical bridge in Asgard but then when used anywhere on Earth it may be a bridge that appears at different parts of the world or may be not portrayed visible at all, with characters leaving Earth w/o the bridge and popping up in Asgard with its bridge, it's weird.

• I can do this much
  • In Journey into Mystery vol 1/1952 issue 88 Thor goes from space outside Earth w/o the bridge but pops up on Asgard using the bridge.
  • In Journey into Mystery vol 1/1952 issue 92 it's stated that Asgard can only be reached from Earth by the bridge, which would seem to go against what Thor did. If it can only be reached by the bridge in Earth than why was Thor able to use it on space?
  • In Journey into Mystery vol 1/1952 issue 94 Thor flies from space into Asgard w/o the bridge but the bridge's used when he gets there.

The bridge is always on Asgard, there is no way for something omnidirectional in Asgard that goes a bit beyond Asgard to no reach Earth, as it should be reaching the bridge by moving that little much.

However, if the storm were to pass through the universe by dimensional travel, it is still possible to calculate the power needed to expand from the edge of the universe to the Earth.

That's not how Dimensional Travel works, you just pop up from one location in space to another in other dimension, with 0 regard to their distance as if both places were in the same dimension.

What does it mean? Please explain it better.

• We go by the take of the planet having the durabilty to have suvived that as it did rather than the Energy Manip in the blast not targeting it and the characters there. It makes too much sense that they would not blast & absorb the only planet not made of living matter when only absorbing planets made of living matter.
  • Not even small mountains and rocks were messed up by this, we do see some rocks being blown away when the blast expands further into the planet by looking closely, but that's inconsistent to how clean and unaffected tinier rocks are in the place Thor & co. are. It would make sense that this was inconsistent given how weird that is.
• I as I see it, I imagine the feat like if you would see a mysterious character blasting enegy at regular humans to vaporize evil beings behind them, the blast covering them all but only vaporizing the evil beings, then the mysterious character just leaves. You wouldn't think "they took the blast", just "they were never the target and that energy was manipulated to not harm them in the same way", even if the humans were somewhat affected by that. We know the explosion is energy being manipulated that they then control to withdraw pretty much in reverse, when it was done being an explosion, with a control that precise, the purpose of the blast not targeting the planet where it happened, and the latter requiring to have durability on the level of the explosion while also having some rocks blown away but also also smaller rocks closer to the explosion unaffected, it makes the most sense to me that the character took some effect from the blast but not at all all of it as if it was a regular explosion.

He speaks of a galaxy exploding as a whole, and refers to the heart as the epicenter.
The following statement backs him up by saying that he has even survived explosions even more impressive than those of galaxies.

Yes but galaxies don't explode, he may refer to someone making them explode, which they are a number of ways to do. If a galaxy were to be covered with energy and then that blows up then the feat itself is 3-C, but taking it from the epicenter isn't the same in durability, as the whole explosion didn't came from there. Replace "cover with energy" with anything where the whole explosion still doesn't came from the epicenter and the result is the same.

The second sentence may also refer to some Area of Effect thing.

Beta Ray Bill, defender of the korbinite race and last survivor of ragnarok, was unable to stop Galactus from devouring his people's adopted home planet. Now, both he and Stardust, the herald of Galactus, lie unconscious after an epic battle which rocked the heavens and shook the very firmament of the universe.

It seems pretty clear to me that they shook the entire universe, by which I mean they shook the heavens and the very firmament of the universe.

Didn't see the "the heavens and" before, but doesn't change much. What I think of that is the same with some changes in the wording.

It can also be poetic.

The explosion could easily be a few light years old and have an AP 3-A, as it was launched by Galactus at full power.

The feat used to be in Galactus' profile in his hungry key, the wording used made it seem like he was weakened but yet a bit amped, it's weird, and better to take the feat as what it did on its own.

Also, I believe there are some claims that Galactus' power spread throughout the galaxy.

I think that might be due to destroying something that had galaxy in its name? Idk. We will see.

This god is depicted as being able to affect a large portion of a galaxy, just as you don't know if he can scale Thor or Hercules?

Not in that image. Idk.

What pocket reality are you talking about?

I refer to what much Mjolnir can have inside, in case that bit is seen as a feat.

A shock wave that is capable of shaking planets half a universe away created by thunder, the end.

I misunderstood something, ok.

Why not? The situation doesn't justify that she can progressively destroy the Galaxy, besides a panel earlier the Star Brand is called out as one of the most powerful weapons in the cosmos, even Gladiator considered the Star Brand as a threat to the galaxy.

By the way this comic was written by Jason Aaron the same who created Mother Storm.

All the "this is very powerful" stuff is true, she would need so to get away with that much evil, but a super terrorist can be anywhere from Tier 8 to anything higher themselves to threaten to burn the whole world while angry, even if they already are a threat to the planet. They can destroy things overtime or mess up society as we know it in evil ways w/o annihilating it.

 

[Confluctor]

Yeah but If the universe's statement have contradictions and other things like that they don't tend to used.

Except the only contradiction is the 1 trillion one?

 

[Swerzye29038]

Except the only contradiction is the 1 trillion one?

I just want to note here, from what I know the scan never explicitly states the size of the universe is limited to trillions of lightyears, only that the distance in which the character could sense something is trillions of lightyears. Therefore it isn't even a contradiction

 

[Veronica]

If 1 trillion light years is the edge. He would have said "I can feel every world crumbling or the entire universe " it implies a limit of his sense range

 

[Confluctor]

I just want to note here, from what I know the scan never explicitly states the size of the universe is limited to trillions of lightyears, only that the distance in which the character could sense something is trillions of lightyears. Therefore it isn't even a contradiction

I know. Now we know it's at least 1 trillion which I still think it's kinds useless

 

[The_Impress]

jesus christ its potaeto potahto in the long run just pick one already.

 

[Confluctor]

I support high 6-C as their peak

 

[SuperAPM]

I support high 6-C as their peak

 

[Swerzye29038]

I support high 6-C as their peak

9-A it is.

 

[Teezar]

Except the only contradiction is the 1 trillion one?

Then you can use the statement of the universe statement in the book or the writers normal statement of universe maybe infinite or any other he uses in his othee books if not then just 93 billion light years.

Yeah but the difference between cosmology between authors in DC is absurd.

assuming the universe in Marvel to be 93 billion LY as opposed to stated whatever trillion for the sake of 4-A being more consistent than 3-C or whatever it would calc to is simply bias. We don’t arbitrarily decide what the Marcel cosmology is to make characters certain tiers.

You realise both companies still use each other's writers at times too right?

I'm saying the universe's size can be determined by how authors take them as different writers take how the universe size is.
I remember a fantastic for book it's stated to be jillions or whatever that digit is. And it's not a lowball to make 4-A consistent at all.
Actually it's how it works this platforms wants to break the cosmology by writers for consistency like I said some lowball the cosmology and characters while others wank them.

 

[SuperAPM]

Then you can use the statement of the universe statement in the book or the writers normal statement of universe maybe infinite or any other he uses in his othee books if not then just 93 billion light years.

Ok we should use the Trillion Light Year statement for now as a minimum then unless the Infinite Sized statements prove to be more definitive in description, or any contradictory evidence pops in to say otherwise.

I'm saying the universe's size can be determined by how authors take them as different writers take how the universe size is.

It'd be one thing to say this if you had scans that contradicted the one's we're using currently, but what you're saying right now basically amounts to ......."well, these comics don't state the size so maybe they don't think it's that big either."

Apparantly more than one Trillion Light Year Minimum statements exists anyway, one of which spans as far back as the 60's or whatever, so this isn't even a new development. As far as I'm concerned we're just being needlessly stringent simply ignoring it just because it might not be in the minds of every writer that touches Marvel.

I remember a fantastic for book it's stated to be jillions or whatever that digit is.

You should find that that'd help us out plenty if that's the case

 

[Swerzye29038]

Then you can use the statement of the universe statement in the book or the writers normal statement of universe maybe infinite or any other he uses in his othee books if not then just 93 billion light years.

That statement isn't a contradiction. The scan never says the universe is only trillions of lightyears. The scan itself doesn't really even have anything to do with the size of the universe, more so the range in which the a character can sense something. If that really was the limit of the universe then the comic would've made that clear. So again, I'm still not sure what "contradictions" everyone is referring to

 

[Teezar]

Ok we should use the Trillion Light Year statement for now as a minimum then unless the Infinite Sized statements prove to be more definitive in description, or any contradictory evidence pops in to say otherwise.

That's why I said it depends on the writer if a writer me mentions infinite universe in his book then it can be used if no contradictions and if he doesn't then 93 billion light years and we don't cross scale them like that only the writer who mentioned this atleaat 1 trillion light year statement can be used.

It'd be one thing to say this if you had scans that contradicted the one's we're using currently, but what you're saying right now basically amounts to ......."well, these comics don't state the size so maybe they don't think it's that big either."

Apparantly more than one Trillion Light Year Minimum statements exists anyway, one of which spans as far back as the 60's or whatever, so this isn't even a new development. As far as I'm concerned we're just being needlessly stringent simply ignoring it just because it might not be in the minds of every writer that touches Marvel

Then we just use 93 billion light years if no statement is given. Nop that statement is of recent.

 

[Hasty12345]

I don't think I understand your position, hypothetically, suppose we have a 5 issue story where each issue has different authors, are you suggesting we treat those 5 issues as having different cosmologies given each author has their own interpretation on how strong the characters are? Is that an accurate consequence of your position?

 

[Teezar]

That statement isn't a contradiction. The scan never says the universe is only trillions of lightyears. The scan itself doesn't really even have anything to do with the size of the universe, more so the range in which the a character can sense something. If that really was the limit of the universe then the comic would've made that clear. So again, I'm still not sure what "contradictions" everyone is referring to

I never said it was. That's why I said atleast throughout I even corrected someone above saying it should be far more than that the same way it's believed our unobservable universe is also trillions of Light years which means our universe could even be bigger.

I don't think I understand your position, hypothetically, suppose we have a 5 issue story where each issue has different authors, are you suggesting we treat those 5 issues as having different cosmologies given each author has their own interpretation on how strong the characters are? Is that an accurate consequence of your position?

Yes it's actually what done to DC and marvel.

 

[Hasty12345]

Yes it's actually what done to DC and marvel.

No way.....

 

[KLOL506]

No way.....

Yeah we have a "Holding Back" and "Peak" statistics now. They vary wildly, but that's pretty much the only way to do justice to their peak statistics now.

Heck, we might even be looking at Tier 2 upgrades down the line, but that's just me.

 

[Teezar]

No way.....

Yes way.

 

[The_Impress]

Yes it's actually what done to DC and marvel.

...again. This is just straight up not what was accepted lol, you're making shit up.

It limits to cosmological characters' definitions, not even feats, and even in THAT we allowed fo cross-writer scaling if they referred to aspects of another writer's cosmology. This shit isn't even accepted for DC.

Teezar if you don't know the thread why are you acting like you do? I already addressed this on this thread alone, you're making me repeat this.

 

[Confluctor]

Why are we going in circles with this discussion? Its not really needed. This will be the last message on the size of the universe. Any more, unless extremely relevant, will be deleted.


Almost every writer in the marvel universe treats the size of the physical universe as infinite. Some gives an at least number to it, like Aaron, and that's fine in the overall context too. The universe is infinite, and just because a few writers write it, and they don't explicitly mention that it's infinite, doesn't mean the universe is not infinite. That's not how it works. And cosmology split is obviously about conceptual entities and higher.

Now let's get back to the discussion, shall we?

 

[Hasty12345]

So the shaking feats should be considered high 3-A?

 

[Teezar]

...again. This is just straight up not what was accepted lol, you're making shit up.

It limits to cosmological characters' definitions, not even feats, and even in THAT we allowed fo cross-writer scaling if they referred to aspects of another writer's cosmology. This shit isn't even accepted for DC.

Teezar if you don't know the thread why are you acting like you do? I already addressed this on this thread alone, you're making me repeat this.

It's what accepted by splitting the cosmology by writers.

Not just the characters but cosmology itself as different writers have how the treat the cosmology as some highball while others lowball. We are allowed to and did other writers talk about the atleast 1 trillion light year statement or something comparable or it's just a 1 time something. I'm pretty sure it as you can ask firestorm when I tried to use the 60 trillion light years in half a second big bang he said if the writers are different I should stick with 93 billion light years as writers tend to ignore stuffs like that and other reasons for consistency.

I don't know the thread azin how? We can give input in any thread from our point of view all you have to do is prove us wrong.

 

[Teezar]

So the shaking feats should be considered high 3-A?

Yes if the particular writer of those books treats the universe as infinite without any contradictions then sure.

 

[Hasty12345]

I fundamentally disagree with the principle of your position, and since it's not accepted at this level of feats anyway I'm not going to continue debating with you on this topic.

 

[KLOL506]

I never said it was. That's why I said atleast throughout I even corrected someone above saying it should be far more than that the same way it's believed our unobservable universe is also trillions of Light years which means our universe could even be bigger.

Yes it's actually what done to DC and marvel.

Wait I thought you were talking about the "Holding back" and "Peak" parts.

 

[The_Impress]

It's what accepted by splitting the cosmology by writers.

...no. I made that thread, I know what I wrote. I didn't write that. Prove me where I said it extends to universal tier.

I don't know the thread azin how? We can give input in any thread from our point of view all you have to do is prove us wrong.

Not when you're saying shit like "oh this is what the accepted standard is" and using that to quell debates. It's misinformation.

 

[Confluctor]

I'm pretty sure it as you can ask firestorm when I tried to use the 60 trillion light years in half a second big bang he said if the writers are different I should stick with 93 billion light years as writers tend to ignore stuffs like that and other reasons for consistency.

That seems like a firestorm problem to me. But that shouldn't be. Just because a writer doesn't go out of his way in every issue to mention the universe is infinite in size is... Stupid. The universe is infinite, and that's practically something every writer agrees with.

Anyway, can we leave this discussion behind already? The universe is infinite, and we have at least 1 trillion statement. Don't like it? Take it up to marvel.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

So is the 4-A rating going to be accepted then, and if so who will scale to it?

 

[Hasty12345]

So is the 4-A rating going to be accepted then, and if so who will scale to it?

if the universe is infinite, wouldn't they be high 3-A feats?

 

[SuperAPM]

Then we just use 93 billion light years if no statement is given. Nop that statement is of recent.

No, one out of two statements are recent additions. The first statement came out in the 60's apparently written by Stan Lee, as you can see here:

And in a Stan Lee comic there is also a trillion statement, which Jason Aaron seems to be referencing (As he has done with other statements).

 

[SuperAPM]

Anyway, can we leave this discussion behind already? The universe is infinite, and we have at least 1 trillion statement. Don't like it? Take it up to marvel.

Well, the problem is that getting the specific size of the universe is important since we're talking about feats that specifically involve the entire universe. If the MU is consistently portrayed as being Infinite in size as you say, then we're talking about High 3-A upgrades instead of what's being proposed.

Granted, I'd prefer having Surfer's Black Hole feat fully calced to see what that gets, but I'm perfectly fine with wahtever end is accepted.

 

[The_Impress]

A trillion thought-year sounds extremely underwhelming though

 

[Confluctor]

So is the 4-A rating going to be accepted then, and if so who will scale to it?

We need to discuss that, but everyone's basically going in other directions.


Anyway, here is my proposal for the said scaling chain and changes;

Upscaling heavily from these values:

• Thanos
• Warlock
• Sentry
• Destroyer
• Magus
• Galactus
• Mephisto
• Omega
• Anti-Man

Scale to this value: Not naming those listed

• Doc Doom
• Sphinx - for now
• Clea and ancient one and Strange (Does he still have 4-B? Maybe they should upscale at peak)
• Ultron - possibly upscaled - still thinking
• Hulk
• Maleketh with magic
• Other herlads
• Impossible Man
• Jormungand
• Gladiator
• Hyperion
• Starbrand
• Beyonder Drones
• Drax
• Black Bolt
• HE
• Hercules

Downscaling from these values:

• Nova
• Quasar
• Wolverine and his lot
• Groot
• Cosmo and Lockjaw (?)

Just the ones I can think of at the top of my head.

 

[LuciferDC099]

Anyway, can we leave this discussion behind already? The universe is infinite, and we have at least 1 trillion statement. Don't like it? Take it up to marvel.

So, universe-shaking feats in Marvel are High 3-A?

 

[Confluctor]

Well... yeah