Heracles (RoR) vs Saitama

[Rockymountainjammer]

Both are 5-B: Saitama is baseline, Heracles scales above baseline in his Godhood key (Please correct me if I am wrong)
Speed is NOT equal for now (Will equalize if necessary), Saitama scales above 4.35c, Heracles scales above 1.67439168867c (Please correct me if I am wrong)
No prior knowledge on either side
Battle takes place in the location where Saitama & Genos sparred
Starting distance is 5 meters

Heracles (Godhood Key):
Saitama:
Incon: 1 ( @XVII )

Please let me know if there is anything that should be changed about this match.

 

[XVII]

saitama is about 2.3x faster

but huh, i wonder if saitama can hurt him
since gods in ror can only be hurt by volund (raiden's muscles were his volund in his fight)

if saitama can't hurt him i think i will vote incon since heracles wouldn't be able to hurt him (saitama massively upscales to his dura feats, and also saitama is faster)

 

[Rockymountainjammer]

saitama is about 2.3x faster

but huh, i wonder if saitama can hurt him
since gods in ror can only be hurt by volund (raiden's muscles were his volund in his fight)

if saitama can't hurt him i think i will vote incon since heracles wouldn't be able to hurt him (saitama massively upscales to his dura feats, and also saitama is faster)

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I believe that the majority of humans in RoR cannot physically harm Gods (with strikes) just due to a severe discrepancy in power. I'm not sure if there are any instances of humans with Volund (except Raiden) harming Gods with their own hands, or even attempting to. And the only time I remember a human other than Raiden outright matching a God in raw strength is Lu Bu, who is also clearly made out to be much stronger than the average human. I haven't read it since Buddha's fight though.

Gods cannot be harmed by conventional human weaponry, yes, but the normal human is not as strong as a God to begin with. So if a typical human tried punching a God results probably wouldn't differ. In Saitama's case this is different, he is powerful enough on his own, without a Volund, to physically match a God in strength. I don't see why Gods being invulnerable to human weaponry would make them invulnerable to someone who is physically as powerful as they are punching them in the face.

Volund itself is specifically meant to create weapons that can match the divine weapons of the gods, since normal human weapons would be broken almost instantly by a God's divine weapon. I don't think humans are meant to be strong enough to face Gods on their own, they are just given the weaponry that has the power to do so in most cases by Volund. Even Lu Bu was still so far behind Thor after Volund that one full power strike from him broke both of Lu Bu's legs when he tried to block it. Raiden is an exception due to how his Volund works.
Divine weapons are called the God's "cheat" by Brunhilde, and are treated as the biggest reason that humans would never be able to defeat a God. When Zeus and Hermes speak about Volund, Hermes says that humans are given the "power of a god" simply by obtaining the weapon created through Volund. The weapon is their only chance at defeating a God, they still lack the strength to do it otherwise. None of the human fighters would beat their God opponent in a straight up fist fight without the use of their Volund, even after getting whatever boost the general process of Volund gives them. Shiva didn't even use a divine weapon against Raiden, nor did Zeus against Adam.

Although in Heracles fight with Jack the Ripper, when Jack pierced his hands through Heracles' body, Ares expressed surprise at the fact that a human's bare hands were capable of piercing divine flesh. Despite this, there was no surprise from the Gods (including Ares) when Adam harmed Zeus with punches (and his divine weapon is only on one hand), only shock at the moves being copied. I think this implies that human weapons are incapable of harming Gods because they cannot pierce their bodies, while divine weapons can. However that should mean someone with sufficient strength can harm Gods with physical blows, just not pierce their bodies.

If Saitama really can't harm Heracles here, then he still has a wincon via outlasting him. If Saitama's durability really is so high that Heracles can't hurt him (which I admittedly have my doubts on), that combined with Saitama's speed advantage over Heracles will likely push Heracles into the later stages of the 12 Labors as the fight goes on, until he finally reaches #12 and eventually succumbs to the effects of it which will cause him to die once the tattoo spreads over his body.
That said it takes a bit of time for that to happen, Heracles began using the 12 Labors somewhat early on in the match, and it lasted just under 27 minutes total, so he probably has at the least 20 minutes to take down Saitama after beginning to use the 12 Labors, longer if he waits to go through the stages.

 

[Rockymountainjammer]

Bump

 

[XVII]

If Saitama's durability really is so high that Heracles can't hurt him (which I admittedly have my doubts on)

that's more because saitama never takes damage at all so while he does upscale from his AP, it's unknown just how much he can take

however he does massively upscale from that low 5-B feat, enough that he was scaled to baseline 5-B, so i believe he is massively stronger than what was shown right now

However that should mean someone with sufficient strength can harm Gods with physical blows, just not pierce their bodies.

if that is the case then saitama would just talk to him while taking hits since he doesnt kill/hurt until he gets annoyed

if anything they just won't fight until heracles say something like "this is a fight to death" or "i'm going to kill you"

and then, if saitama takes damage he will be in shock and will get excited and will fight all out, most likely using his strongest punch and possibly killing heracles in one blow, he basically gets bloodlusted

if he doesn't take damage he will not go all out and will just try to incap him

but as of now i believe this is incon

 

[Rockymountainjammer]

that's more because saitama never takes damage at all so while he does upscale from his AP, it's unknown just how much he can take

however he does massively upscale from that low 5-B feat, enough that he was scaled to baseline 5-B, so i believe he is massively stronger than what was shown right now

IIRC, I heard that the difference between the Low 5-B feat's value and the value of baseline 5-B is higher than what would normally be accepted to upscale someone to the next tier, but Saitama was accepted to upscale anyway due to him never taking any damage. I don't really know how the rules on this work but I don't imagine that Saitama should be scaling so high above baseline 5-B that Heracles can't harm him. Please do correct me if I'm wrong though.

Heracles himself scales above baseline, he was stated to have the strength of Zeus (wiki says that it's "rivaling" him) which put him at baseline 5-B as a Demigod, maybe even already scaling above it since Zeus scales above Shiva, who is baseline. After becoming a fully-fledged God Heracles became stronger, Ares fought him equally when Heracles was a Demigod, but he's stated to not hold a candle to God Heracles. On top of that, the 12th Labor boosts Heracles power even further.
So I believe Heracles should be high enough above baseline to harm Saitama.

Still gonna count your vote for the time being.

 

[XVII]

IIRC, I heard that the difference between the Low 5-B feat's value and the value of baseline 5-B is higher than what would normally be accepted to upscale someone to the next tier, but Saitama was accepted to upscale anyway due to him never taking any damage. I don't really know how the rules on this work but I don't imagine that Saitama should be scaling so high above baseline 5-B that Heracles can't harm him. Please do correct me if I'm wrong though.

Heracles himself scales above baseline, he was stated to have the strength of Zeus (wiki says that it's "rivaling" him) which put him at baseline 5-B as a Demigod, maybe even already scaling above it since Zeus scales above Shiva, who is baseline. After becoming a fully-fledged God Heracles became stronger, Ares fought him equally when Heracles was a Demigod, but he's stated to not hold a candle to God Heracles. On top of that, the 12th Labor boosts Heracles power even further.
So I believe Heracles should be high enough above baseline to harm Saitama.

Still gonna count your vote for the time being.

yknow, saitama is most likely gonna get downscaled to 5-C since the chapter was retconned

so yeah, this thread wont make sense anymore

also your arguments are cool and concise

 

[Rockymountainjammer]

yknow, saitama is most likely gonna get downscaled to 5-C since the chapter was retconned

so yeah, this thread wont make sense anymore

also your arguments are cool and concise

Yeah I saw but hey it's a way better chapter so, I'll take it. My fingers are crossed that Murata just forgot to submit the page or something, though, since it's still mentioned that the distortion and stuff happened. It's strange that they would just remove that part. But that's not relevant to this, I digress.

Until the downgrade is made I'd still be open to discussing this if you or anyone else are interested.

And thanks! I appreciate you saying that.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Since Saitama has a 5B key now, can this be revived?

 

[XVII]

Since Saitama has a 5B key now, can this be revived?

saitama is 4-A bruh

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

saitama is 4-A bruh

Guess not then