(7-6-0) Heavy Weapons Guy... It was nice to meet you. Goodbye. | Asgore vs. Heavy

[FantaRin_The_First]

Asgore Dreemurr vs. Heavy

• Fighting Location: The Barrier
• Starting Distance: 8 meters
• Both in-character, and are willing-to-kill
• Speed Equalized
• Asgore scales to 0.024 tons, Heavy scales to 0.007 tons
• First Key Heavy (9-A) Key is used
• Heavy has the Stock Minigun, Family Business, and Gloves of Running Urgently

Asgore: 7 (@rawXDglomp, @God900, @Psychomaster35, @Lugh_Tuathe_Dé, @Acer__, @Mariogoods, @Originlima)

Heavy: 6 (@Shmooply, @Popted2, @FarerPurple, @TheGatememer, @FinePoint, @Johnboy)

They give up and have sandviches and golden flower tea:

---

Fun Fact: I created this match because I came across this match, and was reminded that the Undertale-and-Team Fortress 2 AU called Overtime existed: which had placed Heavy in Asgore's role, and this is the sole reason why I created this match in the first place!

Note: Undertale's Soul does not one-shot people, but serves as a method of bypassing normal durability. This thread serves as proof in this matter. Should mention that Asgore technically has soul absorption but it will not be relevant since it only applies after he defeats a human... I think.

Story:
Thanks, @Peppersalt43!

During the human and monster wars, vast developments of technology were developed on both sides as they try to gain an advantage over one another. One such development was the creation of soulless humans. Free of the shackles of mortality, these "humans" could take more attacks from monsters whose magic relied on harming the soul. Wherever these creatures go, monsters will perish and whole armies desecrated by only a few men. Our king had the unfortunate experience of meeting one such human.

Asgore walked through the battlefield, having heard of a call for reinforcements. He didn't think it would be this bad. Dust coated the land, indicating the massacre that had happened. Many of his men were disgusted or frightened yet the king marched on, despite the sound of gunfire up ahead. In the fields he could see a big man wielding a large weapon, seemingly firing large amounts of projectiles.

At the sight of this genocide, this human is... laughing? What creature would laugh at the death of others!?

"Ahahahahaha! Cry some more puny monsters! Thank you Medic!" said Heavy, mowing down the last monsters in battle. Asgore clutched his trident in anger, what was wrong with this human? The mercenary walked to a corner to chomp down on a sandwich, giving the king time to strike. A fireball struck Heavy's hand, burning the sandwich and causing him to clutch his hand in pain.

"Human, no... A demon, I will kill you" he said.
"Nobody gets to destroy Heavy's sandvich and live!" replied the mercenary, pulling out his minigun.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Alright so uh, there's a problem. You see, Heavy is not acrobatic in the slightest, making it hard for him to dodge Danmaku. So in other words, this is a battle of who can outdamage the other. While Asgore's danmaku isn't a constant stream of damage like Heavy's minigun, it does ignore durability so Heavy's usual advantage of tankiness is nullified

I'm leaning to Incon for now but lets wait

Also I'll make a story for this below if you don't feel like it

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Alright so uh, there's a problem. You see, Heavy is not acrobatic in the slightest, making it hard for him to dodge Danmaku. So in other words, this is a battle of who can outdamage the other. While Asgore's danmaku isn't a constant stream of damage like Heavy's minigun, it does ignore durability so Heavy's usual advantage of tankiness is nullified

I'm leaning to Incon for now but lets wait

Also I'll make a story for this below if you don't feel like it

For your offer of making a story for this... Feel free to do so if you want~ I'm not the best story maker, so any help would be welcomed by me!

Going to the main topic... Darn, I suppose Heavy's not being acrobatic in the slightest is a problem. Do you think me switching to Heavy's other key, y'know the one without a soul, would give him a fighting chance? I'm vaguely aware that Undertale's magic still able to affect 'soulless things' i.e Flowey and objects, I think, and Asgore's durability ignoring can be ignored... Although, am not sure how stronger Robot War/Australium Chase! Heavy would be when compared to Gravel War! Heavy, so meh.

I wonder how will this affect my planned Undyne the Undying vs. Gravel War! Demoknight in the future

 

[Peppersalt43]

Spoiler: Story

During the human and monster wars, vast developments of technology were developed on both sides as they try to gain the advantage over one another. One such development was the creation of soulless humans. Free of the shackles of mortality, these "humans" could take more attacks from monsters whose magic relied on harming the soul. Wherever these creatures go, monsters will perish and whole armies desecrated by only a few men. Our king had the unfortunate experience of meeting one such human.

Asgore walked through the battlefield, having heard of a call for reinforcements. He didn't think it would be this bad. Dust coated the land, indicating the massacre that had happened. Many of his men were disgusted or frightened yet the king marched on, despite the sound of gunfire up ahead. In the fields he could see a big man wielding a large weapon, seemingly firing large amounts of projectiles.

At the sight of this genocide, this human is... laughing? What creature would laugh at the death of others!?

"Ahahahahaha! Cry some more puny monsters! Thank you Medic!" said Heavy, mowing down the last monsters in battle. Asgore clutched his trident in anger, what was wrong with this human? The mercenary walked to a corner to chomp down on a sandwich, giving the king a time to strike. A fireball struck Heavy's hand, burning sandwich and causing him to clutch his hand in pain.

"Human, no.... A demon, I will kill you" he said.
"Nobody gets to destroy Heavy's sandvich and live!" replied the mercenary, pulling out his minigun

There ya go.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Darn, I suppose Heavy's not being acrobatic in the slightest is a problem. Do you think me switching to Heavy's other key, y'know the one without a soul, would give him a fighting chance?

Nah that kinda makes it a stomp. He's around 0.066 tons there so Heavy will have an AP advantage and Asgore's attacks will affect him less (Also he can function normally under afterburn so fire doesn't do too much to his cognition)

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Darn x2... Although this is starting to convince me that Robot War/Australium Chase! Demoknight vs Undyne the Undying might be fun and fair to debate since they are equal and Undyne in that key doesn't have that pesky murderous intent weaknesses that other monsters have.

Future stuff, I supoose~

Humor me, Pepper. Who wins in the skill department between Asgore and Heavy? Asgore isn't fighting a small child i.e what happened in canon, so he might actually try in this fight seriously, but meh, but meh.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Darn x2... Although this is starting to convince me that Robot War/Australium Chase! Demoknight vs Undyne the Undying might be fun and fair to debate since they are equal and Undyne in that key doesn't have that pesky murderous intent weaknesses that other monsters have.

Technically it will if you give Undyne prior knowledge. They'll just end up duking it out in melee with physical attacks

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

That would be glorious! Will have to wait and see how this match will turn out first before I make it tho.

 

[TheGatememer]

What can Asgore do about being hit with over 166 bullets per second? I don’t think the AP difference is high enough for Asgore to be able to tank all of that.

 

[Peppersalt43]

What can Asgore do about being hit with over 166 bullets per second? I don’t think the AP difference is high enough for Asgore to be able to tank all of that.

In this key he kinda has a 3x AP advantage

 

[TheGatememer]

In this key he kinda has a 3x AP advantage

Yea, but I doubt that’s enough for him to be able to tank all the bullets. Could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure Asgore is weak against people with murderous intentions, and, well yeah. Heavy has murderous intentions to say the least. Not sure if that same weakness applies here.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Yea, but I doubt that’s enough for him to be able to tank all the bullets. Could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure Asgore is weak against people with murderous intentions, and, well yeah. Heavy has murderous intentions to say the least. Not sure if that same weakness applies here.

Ye, every monster with the exception of Undyne in her Undying Form and Flowey (I think) has that weakness. But in Asgore's case, this should lessen slightly due to the fact that, well... he's fighting a grown human instead of a child, thus, his defenses shouldn't weaken all that much due to him thinking he's doing something that isn't right.

... 'Sides, Asgore should be capable of dodging to some degree, this should natural since Heavy and Asgore aren't limited to an RPG-style fight after all and he won't just stand around and take it... I think.

BTW, doesn't Heavy need to do some revving before he can fire any of his miniguns, tho? That should be enough time for Asgore to start throwing fire danmaku at him.

 

[TheGatememer]

Yea Heavy needs to rev, but it doesn't take that long, maybe around a second. Asgore can try to outmanuver, but considering that he is pretty massive, it's going to be pretty hard since Heavy's Minigun is sustained fire and not burst fire, not to mention the hundreds of bullets being shot at him.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Yea Heavy needs to rev, but it doesn't take that long, maybe around a second. Asgore can try to outmanuver, but considering that he is pretty massive, it's going to be pretty hard since Heavy's Minigun is sustained fire and not burst fire, not to mention the hundreds of bullets being shot at him.

Err... Have to object to Asgore being massive. He's as built as a buff adult human yes, but... He only appears very big because Frisk/'Chara'/whatever is a child and is extremely small when compared to them or Sans, heck, Asgore, and Toriel are pretty similar in height. So Asgore's height is neither an advantage nor a disadvantage for either party.

Plus! I believe a second is more than enough for Asgore to start attacking Heavy with fire danmaku and they should continue to rocket towards Heavy even if Asgore is being pelted by Heavy's minigun bullets. Remember, Asgore has a 3x advantage over Heavy, so he needs to be hit by quite a lot of bullets to be put down, at the very least, and unlike RPG Battles, Asgore can still attack even when he is under attack!

With VSBW Logic, I think Asgore can tank quite a number of bullets before they really start to screw him over. I think.

... Although, I do wonder... If Asgore charges towards Heavy with his trident, would Heavy engage him in a melee battle? I vaguely recall there being a moment or two in which Heavy engages in h2h with someone, but meh. It probs has context that isn't known by me. I, Fanta, think.

Keke, I am not sure if I should argue for one side's victory or stay natural, but... since I am the only one present who is capable of arguing for one side in this thread, I suppose it is fine until somebody else comes along to lend a hand. Hopefully, with your presence, Gate, more people will come out of the woodwork and throw in their two cents.

 

[Comiphorous]

this makes me want to do a jevil vs scout match.

they weirdly have the same exact ap

 

[Peppersalt43]

this makes me want to do a jevil vs scout match.

they weirdly have the same exact ap

Jevil discovers where Mad Milk comes from

 

[Comiphorous]

Jevil discovers where Mad Milk comes from

perfect.

you bastard dont steal my idea

 

[TheGatememer]

By massive, I mean a large target. Not Godzilla size, but a big enough target that Heavy can reliably hit. Sure, I don’t doubt that Asgore can survive some bullets, but when there are over 166 of them coming towards him per second, even if that somehow doesn’t kill him, it will definitely overwhelm him, since Asgore doesn’t have pain resistance.

Looking at Asgore’s fight, the fireballs don’t really seem to be that fast, so Heavy can probably fire his gun before the fireballs start coming towards him. Also, I looked up the exact time it takes to rev up, and it’s 0.87 seconds.

The only real H2H fight Heavy had with someone was with TFC Heavy.

 

[Comiphorous]

Just to throw a towel towards asgore, i must say his ability to dodge danmaku is great, only ever being beat by undyne herself once she trained herself assumably for years under a monster who survived the human monster war, will that keep him in this fight? i would say yes. but will it keep him in a fight with danmaku of 166 per second? i would say for a minimum of time before he's ovewhelmed.

his skill is overwhelmingly superior to Heavy, but the fact is that 166 bullets firing at him every second is going to be his down fall.

 

[rawXDglomp]

Heavies guns are mostly inaccurate as ****, he literally doesn't need to dodge them since heavy can barely move while shooting so the instant he shoots its not speed equal (essentially he has a speed un-amp active whenever he uses his main guns) so asgore can literally just casually walk away to the point 90% of what heavy can do won't hit even if he stands still in 1 spot.
His healing is slow as **** and has him stand still.

Yes, heavies gun takes just under a second to rev up. V a guy apparently faster than lightning. That's too slow. By the time he's fired a single bullet, asgore is already out of effective range.

Heavies best bet is to use shotguns, in which case he keeps his (equalized) speed, and has faster (but still slower than asgores speed pretty sure) projectiles. But those fire in bursts. If he shoots you, its gonna hurt. He's bigger, fa-

Anyways asgore FRA, heavy can't do shit with such a massive skill gap likely trumping his relatively slow shotguns and his main guns just kind of sucking beyond super close range.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

By massive, I mean a large target. Not Godzilla size, but a big enough target that Heavy can reliably hit. Sure, I don’t doubt that Asgore can survive some bullets, but when there are over 166 of them coming towards him per second, even if that somehow doesn’t kill him, it will definitely overwhelm him, since Asgore doesn’t have pain resistance.

Looking at Asgore’s fight, the fireballs don’t really seem to be that fast, so Heavy can probably fire his gun before the fireballs start coming towards him. Also, I looked up the exact time it takes to rev up, and it’s 0.87 seconds.

The only real H2H fight Heavy had with someone was with TFC Heavy.

Huh, I thought stamina also equals pain resistance around these parts? Like resistance to pain more or less equals resistance towards pain manipulation or am I mixing up resistance to heat & cold not equalling resistance to fire & ice and vice versa? Meh. I might need help in this regard.

The speed of the fireballs... honestly, I am not sure how to tackle this. TBH. As we all know, gameplay speed doesn't equal vsbw speed. Have no idea how the heck Speed Equal treats projectile speed. So I have to give this point to you until I find something to argue against it.

And that was the thing I was remembering!

Just to throw a towel towards asgore, i must say his ability to dodge danmaku is great, only ever being beat by undyne herself once she trained herself assumably for years under a monster who survived the human monster war, will that keep him in this fight? i would say yes. but will it keep him in a fight with danmaku of 166 per second? i would say for a minimum of time before he's ovewhelmed.

his skill is overwhelmingly superior to Heavy, but the fact is that 166 bullets firing at him every second is going to be his down fall.

I'll throw a towel for Heavy in return. First, I will point out that Heavy's attacks are 3x weaker than Asgore, so he is going to need to pop a lot of bullets into him. Although murderous intent weakness and the weakness of Asgore's own personality kinda reduces the AP gap to a degree, I think. Also, a stated weakness of Asgore is that he often holds back... so that might bite him in the ass as well.

 

[Comiphorous]

Heavies guns are mostly inaccurate as ****, he literally doesn't need to dodge them since heavy can barely move while shooting so the instant he shoots its not speed equal (essentially he has a speed un-amp active whenever he uses his main guns) so asgore can literally just casually walk away to the point 90% of what heavy can do won't hit even if he stands still in 1 spot.
His healing is slow as **** and has him stand still.

Yes, heavies gun takes just under a second to rev up. V a guy apparently faster than lightning. That's too slow. By the time he's fired a single bullet, asgore is already out of effective range.

Heavies best bet is to use shotguns, in which case he keeps his (equalized) speed, and has faster (but still slower than asgores speed pretty sure) projectiles. But those fire in bursts. If he shoots you, its gonna hurt. He's bigger, fa-

Anyways asgore FRA, heavy can't do shit with such a massive skill gap likely trumping his relatively slow shotguns and his main guns just kind of sucking beyond super close range.

The distance is 10 meters. even at long range his weapon does 48-95 a second. here they're roughly at mid distance which makes his damage around... 48-285 a second.

i'd still say he gets a good amount of shots in with his minigun.

 

[Comiphorous]

I'll throw a towel for Heavy in return. First, I will point out that Heavy's attacks are 3x weaker than Asgore, so he is going to need to pop a lot of bullets into him. Although murderous intent weakness and the weakness of Asgore's own personality kinda reduces the AP gap to a degree, I think. Also, a stated weakness of Asgore is that he often holds back... so that might bite him in the ass as well.

His holding back weakness only applies when he thinks he's doing something wrong, here he wont since he isn't fighting a child for example.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

The distance is 10 meters. even at long range his weapon does 48-95 a second. here they're roughly at mid distance which makes his damage around... 48-285 a second.

i'd still say he gets a good amount of shots in with his minigun.

His holding back weakness only applies when he thinks he's doing something wrong, here he wont since he isn't fighting a child for example.

OH YEAH! ... I think I had a brain fart for a second, my b. While I am not sure how well game damage would translate here, I think the main problem of this match is deciding on how will be able to kill the other first. Heavy's bullet barrages with his minigun + his own initial murderous intent which screws Monsters like Asgore over and reducing the AP & Durability the fluffy king has over HWG or Asgore's danmaku and greater skill. Personally, I am on the side on Asgore, myself, but I am willing to hear out others and want to understand their opinions about this match.

 

[Comiphorous]

OH YEAH! ... I think I had a brain fart for a second, my b. While I am not sure how well game damage would translate here, I think the main problem of this match is deciding on how will be able to kill the other first. Heavy's bullet barrages with his minigun + his own initial murderous intent which screws Monsters like Asgore over and reducing the AP & Durability the fluffy king has over HWG or Asgore's danmaku and greater skill. Personally, I am on the side on Asgore, myself, but I am willing to hear out others and want to understand their opinions about this match.

i was mentioning numbers to show that his minigun gun isn't completely useless at longer range, and they aren't even at long range, but they're at mid range roughly i would say. i wasn't there to try and bust game mechanics in there, that would be silly. i think that asgore could win this through sheer skill, and lets say you put the two at oh i dont know 3 meters forcing heavy to use his melee, i think asgore would take it low-diff.

but i think at long range, that minigun is testing asgore's limit. i think at best i can push it to maybe Asgore-high diff to incon in asgore's favor.

 

[Popted2]

Asgore FRA

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

i was mentioning numbers to show that his minigun gun isn't completely useless at longer range, and they aren't even at long range, but they're at mid range roughly i would say. i wasn't there to try and bust game mechanics in there, that would be silly. i think that asgore could win this through sheer skill, and lets say you put the two at oh i dont know 3 meters forcing heavy to use his melee, i think asgore would take it low-diff.

but i think at long range, that minigun is testing asgore's limit. i think at best i can push it to maybe Asgore-high diff to incon in asgore's favor.

Hmm... First off, thank you for contributing to this thread, dude! Honestly, I have been thinking of reducing the distance between Asgore and Heavy to either exactly 8 meters or exactly 6 meters to make things less incon-ish for both sides. Since ten meters isn't doing Asgore any good and tips the scales slightly to Heavy's side. Am looking for other people's opinions before doing so, tbh, am the thread maker so I gotta be impartial after all.

 

[Comiphorous]

Hmm... First off, thank you for contributing to this thread, dude! Honestly, I have been thinking of reducing the distance between Asgore and Heavy to either exactly 8 meters or exactly 6 meters to make things less incon-ish for both sides. Since ten meters isn't doing Asgore any good and tips the scales slightly to Heavy's side. Am looking for other people's opinions before doing so, tbh, am the thread maker so I gotta be impartial after all.

i would say 8 meters is good. it still makes heavy's minigun impractical in this situation and would reasonably switch to his slower firing shotgun and gives asgore the ability to not only use his trident in this situation but also his magic to keep the assault on heavy. it makes it less on asgore's side with the range and makes heavy's advantages more apparent.

it almost makes me want to vote incon.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

And done.

 

[TheGatememer]

The claims that Heavy's minigun is incredibly inaccurate mostly comes from gameplay, especially considering the gun in gameplay fires nowhere near as fast in canon. His gun, while not exactly precise, is by no means inaccurate to the point where he can barely hit his target, as seen here, where he can hit soldiers several meters away just fine. Obviously, not every bullet will connect, but if even half connect, that's still 83 bullets hitting Asgore per second. Hell, even if only a 4th of the bullets connect, that's still over 40 bullets per second.

There is also random crits, which, while somewhat rare, could triple Heavy's already devastating damage output.

 

[Comiphorous]

The claims that Heavy's minigun is incredibly inaccurate mostly comes from gameplay, especially considering the gun in gameplay fires nowhere near as fast in canon. His gun, while not exactly precise, is by no means inaccurate to the point where he can barely hit his target, as seen here, where he can hit soldiers several meters away just fine. Obviously, not every bullet will connect, but if even half connect, that's still 83 bullets hitting Asgore per second.

i think that evidence is a bit flawed due to the fact that they're grouped together, if they're grouped together its a bit hard to miss the targets (And the fact that Saxton hale considers the game a documentary, meaning his gun is indeed that inaccurate) and they appear to be a lot closer than they actually seem, as not a few seconds after he's already walking by said bodies when he was walking the entire time.

 

[TheGatememer]

Fair enough on the first point. But Saxton Hale's statement should be ignored due to the whole can of worms that opens (like game mechanics being canon). Even ingame, where the gun fires nowhere near as fast in canon (less than a 4th of it's speed), it really isn't that inaccurate. One big reason it especially suffers at long ranges is because of damage fall-off, which is a game mechanic.

 

[Comiphorous]

Fair enough on the first point. But Saxton Hale's statement should be ignored due to the whole can of worms that opens (like game mechanics being canon). Even ingame, where the gun fires nowhere near as fast in canon, it really isn't that inaccurate.

i think we can very efficiently separate whats game mechanics and actual lore. like soldier being incapable of using his grenades on him is obvious game mechanics and in a logical situation he could. and for the minigun situation, you can clearly see he misses a lot more shots than he hits, i would recon thats about one bullet every half a second or so. not that it matters since he is not that far from asgore

 

[TheGatememer]

Yea 8 meters isn't far at all.

 

[Comiphorous]

Yea 8 meters isn't far at all.

i think its enough for his minigun to become less viable, 8 meters is as long as some dinosaurs and by that length the minigun does become less useful, which either means;

heavy would run forward a bit before revving

heavy switches to shotgun to get off quicker chip damage.

both result in heavy doing damage, but negligible damage due to being 3x weaker.

 

[TheGatememer]

8 meters is a short distance. Like this short.

If anything, this is a pretty ideal distance for Heavy to be, as it allows Heavy to be at a relatively safe distance while still being able to do lots of damage. Even if only a 4th of the bullets connect (which at this distance is being generous to Asgore), that's still over 40 bullets hitting Asgore per second. The 3x really isn't that notable since A: Asgore is weak against murderous intentions, and tends to hold back, B: Bullets do piercing damage, and C: Heavy can (albeit unreliably) occasionally triple his damage output with Random Crits.

 

[Comiphorous]

If anything, this is a pretty ideal distance for Heavy to be, as it allows Heavy to be at a relatively safe distance while still being able to do lots of damage. Even if only a 4th of the bullets connect (which at this distance is being generous to Asgore), that's still over 40 bullets hitting Asgore per second. The 3x really isn't that notable since A: Asgore is weak against murderous intentions, B: Bullets do piercing damage, and C: Heavy can (albeit unreliably) occasionally triple his damage output with Random Crits.

the weakness to murderous intent is actual quite slow, it takes the entire fight with a monster for frisk to begin doing a high amount of damage, and they're comparable to who they fight. even longer with asgore who was also unwilling to fight them, which made them weaker. despite everything against asgore, frisk still with murderous intent was not doing very good damage to him. and with that distance, asgore can dodge it. its not ooc for him to dodge, the only time he doesn't dodge is against frisk themselves who he was basically asking to be defeated and killed by. and are random crits considered canon? i didn't think they were, considering its not on his profile except for his upgrades.

 

[TheGatememer]

Frisk occasionally hits Asgore with a dagger. Heavy on the other hand rapidly shoots bullets that do piercing damage. The best Asgore can do is try to outmaneuver. He isn't dodging a Bullet, let alone over 100 of them being fired continuously, as speed is equal here.

Yes, Random Crits are canon. They should be on the profiles.

 

[Comiphorous]

Frisk occasionally hits Asgore with a dagger. Heavy on the other hand rapidly shoots bullets that do piercing damage. The best Asgore can do is try to outmaneuver. He isn't dodging a Bullet, let alone over 100 of them being fired continuously, as speed is equal here.

Yes, Random Crits are canon. They should be on the profiles.

tf2 profiles moment

 

[TheGatememer]

tf2 profiles moment

Welcome to Team Fortress 2. After nine years in development, hopefully it will have been worth the wait.​