Heaven Ascension DIO and Jotaro: Major Downgrade and Revisions

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

I'm still iffy about RO being High 3-A via erasing infinite number of Valentine. This is basically similiar to Johnny Tusk Act 4 feat which affects every single Valentine in Multiverse and we don't gobe him High 3-A rating anymore. RO itself isn't ap, but hax with many application such as Creation and Erasure and etc.

I think we shouldn't even give RO a rating at all or just slaps Unknown.

 

[DMB_1]

• Tusk Act 4 didn't really affect every universe, it just bypassed the Love Train through Spatial Manipulation.
• We do give a tier to Reality Warping though, and even if you are iffy about the High 3-A reasons (which I can see why), Dio still has High 4-C to 4-A Creation feats.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Yeah, High 4-C/4-A is fine. But maybe we should put a note that the feat was done via creation.

 

[DMB_1]

It would still be done with RO, and most people agreed that Dio erasing Valentine infinitely is more impressive and can be counted as actual AP.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

I don't think that's how it works.

Reality Warping isn't always about AP, it is about hax as well. Erasing stuff is definitely hax. While it's true that Dio erased FV through RO which is a reality warping ability, it is a different application of RO, which is erasure which is a hax based power, unlike his creation aplication of RO which can be counted as AP.

It is the same like how he brainwashed the cast, bfr them,and ressurected them, it was done through RO, but not the one which involved AP.

 

[Ogbunabali]

The rating of RO is it's potency. And it's potency is High 3-A via erasing infinite Valentines across infinite universes.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Potency of what? Hax or AP? RO is very versatile that it can be both.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Hax.

 

[The_Smashor]

I feel like a question we should ask now is if RO has 3D or 4D potency. I say 4D for countering GER, personally.

 

[DMB_1]

GER isn't High 3-A anymore, and he just nulled a hax.

 

[The_Smashor]

It nulled a 4D hax, correct?

The High 3-A was removed due to not being AP

The potency of the hax is what I'm concerned with.

 

[Ogbunabali]

GER not being High 3-A doesn't matter, it's hax is the same "potency" it's always been. It is still 4D hax.

 

[Antvasima]

Has anybody asked some knowledgeable staff members to comment yet?

 

[GojiBoyForever]

I asked Crabwhale about it, but he didn't know much about EOH.

 

[Antvasima]

There are plenty of staff members listed in the JoJo's Bizarre Adventure verse page:

• The real cal howard
• Saikou The Lewd King
• Promestei
• Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot
• SomebodyData
• Dargoo Faust
• Starter Pack
• Shadowbokunohero
• Crabwhale
• Sir Ovens
• Antoniofer

 

[GojiBoyForever]

I have contacted some of them.

 

[Starter_Pack]

I'm not entirely familiar with Eyes Over Heaven, but the justifications laid out here seems fine from the limited knowledge I have of the game.

I'll back it.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

I don't think the argument above about GER having passive willpower manip was properly refuted.

I think GER, in canon, has a passive ability to rewind actions, but that's clearly not the case here in EoH. Notice how GER was only surprised when TWOH pushed him back, and not because DIO could move in his presence? Not to mention Giorno later stated that he only used the ability upon colliding with TWOH's fist.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Also, just as icing on the cake, Valentine stated that even he cannot be sure how many realities are out there, directly contradicting his "infinite worlds" statement from the main canon. So 2-A shouldn't have even been on the table to begin with.

 

[Genericstickman]

I mean it'd still be a possibility it's infinite

 

[DMB_1]

I mean, aren't there infinite worlds in canon?

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

>tfw this also means that GER is now canonically the most OP stand there is since TWOH wouldn't be able to resist the Causality Manip

 

[Genericstickman]

Regen still says no

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

@DMB

Like I said, the statement from Funny about how he cannot know how many universes there are contradicts the main canon. IIRC the infinite worlds statement comes from Funny in canon.

 

[The_Smashor]

@ArbitratyNumbers

Joji's Beyond would like to have a word with you.

 

[DMB_1]

The way I interpreted the situation, is that Dio charged at the Jojo's in general, so GER didn't do anything because Giorno wasn't being directly attacked. Because of this, Giorno attacked Dio to actively use Zero-Reset against him (which got power-nulled).

 

[Genericstickman]

@DMB
Like I said, the statement from Funny about how he cannot know how many universes there are contradicts the main canon. IIRC the infinite worlds statement comes from Funny in canon.

Didn't he say that because he was looking through parallel worlds looking for a way to get that pesky Infinite Rotation off him

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Isn't RO's application more like EE when used against people anyway? Not sure if we should give High 3-A for that.

 

[DMB_1]

Tbf, we do give a Tier to hax like EE. Just look at Reinhard Heinrich.

Sure, giving it a High 3-A Tier because of erasing other versions of a single person from infinite timelines sounds convoluted to me, but that's what the others seem to agree on.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Unless in Reinhard case, his erasure said to be work on 1-A being.

 

[Antvasima]

I have contacted some of them.

Things seems to be moving a bit slowly here, so you can ask some more of them if you wish.

 

[DMB_1]

Just when I thought that the thread was coming to a conclusion, new issues start popping up.

Oh well, at least 4-A would still be a good lowball.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, if no other staff members are interested in responding, I suppose that the revisions seem to be accepted. I would prefer if you ask a few more of them first though.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

I think I did contact some but none responded.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Try asking the rest of the ones I listed then.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I don't have much to add here, the OP lays down the issues with the page very well, and I think the only point of contention is what his rating goes down to.

RO always came off more as hax than anything else.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

I think 4-A is fine. No to High 3-A via EE tho. Reinhard's spear actually damages 1-A beings as well iirc.

Erasing someone across infinite multiverses is just 2-A range.

Also, if i may ask, why "Power Nullification against Causality/Willpower Manipulation"? Wouldn't it just be normal power null? There's no reason to assume he can only null those.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Yeah LLT has 1-A AP as well as 1-A hax so not the best example.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Really getting off topic, but yeah Reinhard's spear is made to kill Mercurius whose a 1-A God...and something else to it but I think that's what it is for his spear and himself.

Kinda in the same way that this this guy will have Flames that have a connection to the Throne and made to kill the God of his Era LOL

That aside, I'm guessing NOW that 4-A is decided based on his creation of his personal realm and him erasing Valentine from across the whole multiverse be 2-A range range right?

 

[DMB_1]

Yeah, that's what I would agree the most, though most other users above believed High 3-A to be the best choice (which I disagree with).