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Has The Great ZZ's post been addressed?

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LephyrTheRevanchist said:
"- Characters should not scale to full Triforce wielders unless the full Triforce is actually used.
Not debunked. The full Triforce is a one-use wish granter, so unless the wielder asked for a wish during the fight, it's not been used and therefore nobody scales. For example, ALTTP Link won't scale to the full Triforce because Ganon never used it during their fight (it was too far away)."

I've forgotten about that. I support this, though I would love to see what do you guys think. Is important since ALttP-Link and Ganon are scaled to the full triforce.
Click to expand...
Sigh... this has been argued in two previous 700+ comment threads. The triforce provides power to it's owner, ex the Royal Family using the power of the ToW to rule Hyrule/bring prosperity to it, the ToC preventing Link from being turned into a spirit by the twilight, and the ToP preventing the sages from killing Ganon in Twilight Princess.

The Triforce does scale to the Fierce Diety Mask and by extension Majora. Since there is no possible way what was described as a "ritual mask" is stronger than an "omnipotent" relic handed down from creation by the Goddesses who created the Zelda multi-verse.
 
I agree with Lina regarding the time manipulation.

However, I also agree with DocAnimeTheory about that the full Triforce should be more powerful than a ritual mask.
 
Don't misunderstand me. Obviously the full triforce is stronger than Majora or Fierce Deity. Key word here is "full". Majora soul-haxed Link while having the ToC.

What I'm agreeing is that the full triforce doesn't give it's owner more power , as it:

1. Never been used in combat

2. Is a wish granting relic

So scaling characters to it is, in my opinion, wrong. (ALttP Link, Ganon and Zelda II's Link)
 
Don't worry. xP

And talking about Majora... It sealed the Four Giants using Odolwa, Gyorg, Goht and Twinmold. Wouldn't they be at least equal to the giants to keep them confined? Since they could only be freed by Link's intervention, you'd figured they at least tried escaping or something. Even more when they said to the people of Termina to call them in times of distress. Though this would be problematic, because it would mean Link from Majora is a potential Multi-Continent Level...
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
Don't misunderstand me. Obviously the full triforce is stronger than Majora or Fierce Deity. Key word here is "full". Majora soul-haxed Link while having the ToC.
What I'm agreeing is that the full triforce doesn't give it's owner more power , as it:

1. Never been used in combat

2. Is a wish granting relic

So scaling characters to it is, in my opinion, wrong. (ALttP Link, Ganon and Zelda II's Link)
Click to expand...
This is simply wrong... as i explained above the Triforce does give power to it's owner. It was heavily implied that Link does not have the ToC in Majoras Mask.
 
ToC and ToW don't give power as in AP. That's what I meant.

Edit: And continuing the explanation, having the full triforce just gives you a single wish. A one time thing, basically. Proved by Skyward Link, King Daphnes and in a Link Between Worlds.

Edit II: I've already showed that Link does have the ToC in Majora as stated by the Hyrule Historia.
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
@Doc

Hyrule Historia:

"The Hero of Time is victorious. Link is returned to the time before the Sacred Realm was opened. He met Zelda again as a child and told her what would happen in the future. Zelda gave Link the Ocarina of Time and instructed him to leave Hyrule. Link's hand shone with the proof of the Triforce of Courage and so he carried the burden of his secret journey. Since Ganondorf was sealed away with the Triforce of Power, the other pieces remained with the chosen ones. Link borrowed Epona from Lon Lon Ranch and got lost in a mysterious forest with a way to a parallel universe called Termina."

Source
Click to expand...
 
In Wind Waker just before setting out to awaken the Sages, the KoRL tells Link how the Hero of Time "was called to embark on another journey and was separated from the elements that made him a hero". In reference to Zelda sending Link on a journey to Termina. Hence Link does not have the ToC in Majoras Mask.
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
DocAnimeTheory said:
You really should watch the failed execution of Ganon. When you say the ToP doesn't give Ganon attack potency.
Click to expand...
Amm, I didn't mentioned the ToP tho'... And in this thread, actually, I used that scene and the one at the end of Ocarina as proof that only the ToP gives actual AP/Dura.
Click to expand...
You said the Triforce doesn't give it's owner any power/ap, yet a single piece does? That's nonsensical and downplay.
 
I said the triforce, the full one, doesn't give a thing because, when gathered, it comes out of the wielder's hand and you have to touch it and state you're wish. That is what the full triforce does. From Skyward Sword to Wind Waker, is a fact. So, anyone who have gathered it should not recieve a boost from it. Why? Because they either didn't used the wish mid-battle, wasn't really accesible to them in-battle. If you show proof that a user of the Full Triforce can use it's wish granting properties mid-battle, then we can start applying scaling.

Hyrule Historia has stated otherwise about the ToC. Don't have anything more to add to that.

Edit: Zelda didn't send Link to Termina. Link got there by accident while searching for Navi (Skull Kid stole the OoT, blah blah blah).

Edit II: By "boost" I mean giving them, for example, Tier Low 2-C because they wished the Triforce to create a whole universe. If they do that mid-battle, then they would have that "boost" because they can use a pretty devastating thing, being the full power of the most powerful object in Zelda. But even then, that would only scale to the Triforce itself, not it's user.
 
Lina Shields said:
Now, about that Faron flooding the Faron Province,
Click to expand...
If it helps the original blog post I posted about (the reason for this thread) has the following to say about that very calc:

"Now, the calc itself is already pretty iffy. It assumes that the sandship galleons must sail across bodies of water comparable to the Gulf of California, and that Hyrule must be continent sized, both are pretty big assumptions."

"We aren't given a time frame, she could have taken days, considering the amount of time it takes for Link to return to Faron Provence. We don't know whether she moved two petatons worth of water all at once. (And it's still debatable whether it was 2 petatons to begin with due to the shaky size scaling)."
 
DocAnimeTheory said:
It seems you have never played Skyward Sword...
Click to expand...
The game where Link completes the Triforce and uses its wish to destroy the Imprisoned? Doesn't seem to contradict anything Lephyr said.
 
LoudCloud said:
DocAnimeTheory said:
It seems you have never played Skyward Sword...
Click to expand...
The game where Link completes the Triforce and uses its wish to destroy the Imprisoned? Doesn't seem to contradict anything Lephyr said.
Click to expand...
You realize that Link is still in possession of the Triforce at the end of the game...
 
If it helps the original blog post I posted about (the reason for this thread) has the following to say about that very calc:

"Now, the calc itself is already pretty iffy. It assumes that the sandship galleons must sail across bodies of water comparable to the Gulf of California, and that Hyrule must be continent sized, both are pretty big assumptions."

"We aren't given a time frame, she could have taken days, considering the amount of time it takes for Link to return to Faron Provence. We don't know whether she moved two petatons worth of water all at once. (And it's still debatable whether it was 2 petatons to begin with due to the shaky size scaling)."

This is simply wrong.
 
Please avoid quoting long posts. Use "@" instead. For example "@LoudCloud".
 
DocAnimeTheory said:
You realize that Link is still in possession of the Triforce at the end of the game...
Click to expand...
I don't remember anyting like that in the game. From what I see he defeats the Imprisoned with it, it goes away and then he goes to defeat Demise.
 
video

1:01:13 He doesn't have the triforce

1:03:35 He still doesn't have the triforce

1:04:58 He leaves without the triforce

After that, Ghirahim proceeds to kidnap Zelda and take her to the past, Link following (the game gives you the option of going back to skyloft to do preparations, but do you truly think Link would've wasted time doing that?)
 
Holy shit, that is a major upgrade for Calamity Ganon if we ever saw one. It seems that Chaos got a value ranging from high-end Moon level to high end Large Planet level?
 
Finally it's time to rescale:

5-A: Demise, Calamity Ganon, Triforce Ganon, Triforce Link, Four Swords Vaati (High-end of this calc)

5-B: Majora, Fierce Deity Link (3ds Majora feat)

5-C: Ganondorf, Link, Malladus, Vaati, Bellum and etc. (Low-end of this calc, plus Wind Waker Ganon feat)
 
Triforce Ganon and Link needs a note in the profile that states that they can only use that power as a single wish.

Vaati I don't know since I've never played Minish Cap and the Four Swords game.

Edit: Just saw Vaati's profile, and is the same case as Triforce Link and Ganon. So no, Vaati doesn't get it.
 
IM begging to begin performing the changes.

Anyway:

5-A: Calamity Ganon, Demise, SS Link, Composite Link, BoTW Link

5-B: Majora, FD Link

5-C: Anyone else worth their salt

I'd like to say something about the triforce though. Even without its wish granting, didn't one, just Ganon having it created the Dark World (and he never lost it. The full triforce is still in his possession), and two, Lorule destroying theirs put their world int ruin? If this can't be disproved, then as Dark said, full triforce wielded get 5-A.
 
Hyrule Historia stated that the Dark World was the Sacred Realm, twisted by Ganondorf's evil heart opun entering it. Of course, I will search the HH for the exact quote.
 
@Lephyr. I believe you. Though, that's still a Planetary feat iirc and not solely granted by wish granting, considering it didn't Dragon Ball itself outta there.
 
"The Sacred Realm (Golden Land) became the Dark World once Ganondorf touched the Triforce and claimed the Triforce of Power."

"The Sacred Realm is a mirror of one's heart. If someone with an evil heart steps into it, it turns into a demonic world. But if someone with a pure heart enters it, it turns into a paradise."

Hyrule Historia
 
No, because it wasn't created by Ganondorf having the Triforce. It was created because of his heart (this is becoming a captain planet thread ovo) and the nature of the Sacred Realm itself. Just having it isn't enough. You have to either destroy it (as with Lorule) or wish with it.
 
No wish granting (That thing should apply only in the Wind Waker Timeline because in the other timelines it seems to have different effects). Everyone, who was empowered by the Triforce is 5-A, so to be precise.

1) 5-A

Demise (Stated to easily destroy the Planet and was called as the root of all evil and a God Tier of the Verse).

Calamity Ganon (Sacrificed the ability to reincarnate in order to become more powerful, comparable to Demise and performed a 5-A feat).

Downfall Timeline Full Triforce Ganon/Link (The most powerful artifact in the verse should empower Ganon and Link to this degree).

Full Power Master Sword Link (Possessed by Skysword Link, which was able to defeat Demise)

Four Swords Anniversary Vaati (Fought against the Four Links, who possessed the three pieces of the Triforce)

Four Swords Anniversary Links (Possessed all three pieces and defeated Vaati)

2) At least 5-C. Possibly up to 5-A

Final Form Ghirahim (Far superior to Levias and is possibly as powerful on his own as the True Master Sword itself)

3) 5-B

Majora (Obliterated the planet in the 3ds version, possessed the moon at the end of the game and was sustained by the four giants)

Fiercy Deity Link (Fought and defeated Majora, which also disappeared the moon along with it)

Two Triforce Pieces Yuga Ganon (With two pieces of the Triforce, Yuga Ganon should be here)

4) 5-C

Ganondorf (Should scale to the low-end of the calc. Caused the endless night [A 5-C feat] and fought Link with the Master Sword).

All the other Links and Final Bosses, like Light Empowered Vaati, Malladus, Bellum and etc.

Note: Breath of The Wild Link is 5-C because he fought with a Calamity Ganon, which was weakened by the Four Beasts Planetary Beams and Zelda.
 
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