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If the victim is already caught in the genjutsu then what would their speed matter? That interpretation seems unlikely
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Happy New Year From Kishimoto
- Thread starter Testarossa002
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Exactly; it wouldn't matter. Just like how it wouldn't matter if they were made out of iron.
Godernet
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Agree
Kirin being faster than regular lightning shouldn’t be controversial with earlier lightning statement by much slower
characters.
Honestly Raikage statement makes the Kirin stuff more consistent since he is “near light speed” in V1. With the V2 Raikage being similar in speed to KCM Naruto and a Itachi that could already react to Kirin.
then you have other smaller supporting cases from relative characters thoughout the war. Mifune statement attacking at light speed, Daruis Laser Circus having light like properties, the Raikage body being stated and shown to be durable enough to move at light speed, Light fang much later on.
Relativistic+ to Light Speed Sannin/War Arc Kage Tier is pretty consistent with statements and scaling. More consistent than any assumptions that would need to be made for them not to be.
Are there any actual anti feats rather than people just saying they disagree?
Kirin being faster than regular lightning shouldn’t be controversial with earlier lightning statement by much slower
characters.
Honestly Raikage statement makes the Kirin stuff more consistent since he is “near light speed” in V1. With the V2 Raikage being similar in speed to KCM Naruto and a Itachi that could already react to Kirin.
then you have other smaller supporting cases from relative characters thoughout the war. Mifune statement attacking at light speed, Daruis Laser Circus having light like properties, the Raikage body being stated and shown to be durable enough to move at light speed, Light fang much later on.
Relativistic+ to Light Speed Sannin/War Arc Kage Tier is pretty consistent with statements and scaling. More consistent than any assumptions that would need to be made for them not to be.
Are there any actual anti feats rather than people just saying they disagree?
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I'm so tired of hearing debunked arguments bruh
We already discussed the raikage. The statement was figurative language, AKA not literal.
Don't bring up the Raikage.
Same for why it brings up a body of iron. It's not like saying it penetrates iron or something, or that someone durable enough can block it or sum.
We already discussed the raikage. The statement was figurative language, AKA not literal.
Don't bring up the Raikage.
It never says he can tag someone moving at the speed of light. It says even if you move at the speed of light, this jutsu is powerless against you.
Same for why it brings up a body of iron. It's not like saying it penetrates iron or something, or that someone durable enough can block it or sum.
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Absolutely same.
We're now in the year 2023, and I'm seeing years-old debunked arguments still.
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The "body of iron" and "the speed of light" is in relation to the fact that when you're caught within Tsukuyomi, regardless of how strong, durable or fast one may be, you're still under the complete control and mercy of the user behind Tsukuyomi, the text supports this interpretation as well.
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Idk I can’t articulate why I don’t fully agree so I’ll just let it go, unless testarossa has anything else to add I’m curious how you guys feel about the new era stuff
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Itachi should have FTL reactions for a different reason imo but that is just for the fact that once you are trapped in Tsukuyomi, your speed is meaningless, so disagree with that.
I would agree with Possibly light speed for Kirin
I agree with everything else here
I would agree with Possibly light speed for Kirin
I agree with everything else here
Godernet
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mf this was a year and a half ago. Why are we acting like this was last week.
besides looking at this thread no one actually debunked anything.
Mifune was rated as possibly speed of light attack speed due to nothing being able to fully disapprove it and the Raikage statement was just ignored in favor of another interpretation that was felt to be more consistent at the time.
But there are several light-speed statements that are consistent with how the characters are scaled and no anti-feats for the characters have been mentioned I don't see why it's being written off so quickly.
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This happened before?
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Wouldn't karin being unavoidable cap the verse at lightening speed or something, since he's collected info since his mom?
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Hence why the statement is pretty important.
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If I'm not mistaken, the first one about Tsukuyomi actually says speed of lightning and not speed of light as it uses 稲妻 (lightning) and 光 (light) isn't mentioned anywhere, but if I'm wrong then feel free to correct me.
But regardless, you should definitely include the original scan and Japanese text when trying to get something accepted instead of just posting an unsourced unofficial translation imo.
But regardless, you should definitely include the original scan and Japanese text when trying to get something accepted instead of just posting an unsourced unofficial translation imo.
Godernet
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Kirin being lightning speed is contradicted by previous Kakashi statements and others feats. Zetsu also calls Amaterasu unavoidable an arc before the Raikage dodges it. If anything it more so shows Zetsu is unreliable for information.
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I can fact check that if someone got the raws
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I'll give you something raw
MinatoSparkle
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Me too, via the power of Google Translate scanning
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Me too, via the power of Google Translate scanning
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Yeah I don’t see the kanji for light and the use of “如き” would indicate a phrase like “lightning-like speed”. Aka a lightning fast simile. But Gahdamn that’s a blurry ass scan.
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Testarossa002
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Zetsu notes that Kirin would be the speed of CTG lightning
Meaning it would be in the same ball park of speed as the lightning Kakashi cut
How does something Teen Kakashi could react to be considered impossible to react to for a god tier at that point?
Zetsu's claim is looking flawed is the point here
Testarossa002
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A timeframe by a character who has no idea on the jutsu?
Zetsu saw Sasuke make clouds and stuffs then concluded that it was the speed of a naturally occuring lightning
Which is already contradicted by kirin not being a naturally occuring lightning
Supernatural energy was involved in the process of it's creation
Testarossa002
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- #65
It can also mean that, no matter how fast you move, you can still get caught
Testarossa002
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Alright then
That can be crossed out
Testarossa002
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What about the stuffs for the new era characters?
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Panache_x
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This is an Obvious metaphor, given it says people with a body of iron. it just means even super strong and super fast people can be caught in a Genjutsu
Panache_x
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This is a drag but I don't get the opposition to this.
A calc can't take precedence over the Databooks.
Zets's statement has be addressed to be in reference to a normal Lighting Bolt and not one that has been infused with Sasuke's Chakra
He's in no way a reliable source to determine the speed of a Jutsu he has Never witnessed.
Fan calcs are not 3rd, 4th or 5th Canon Materials
A calc can't take precedence over the Databooks.
Zets's statement has be addressed to be in reference to a normal Lighting Bolt and not one that has been infused with Sasuke's Chakra
He's in no way a reliable source to determine the speed of a Jutsu he has Never witnessed.
Fan calcs are not 3rd, 4th or 5th Canon Materials
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No it says at the speed of a flash, which is common figurative tool used to emphasize someones speed.
The_Alxhemist
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2025 is gonna hit and we'd still see Universal Madara talks
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The Kakashi cutting lightning feat was debunked years ago, and doesn't affect the Kirin.
That's also not an act of dodging if he's just cutting it. So the statement remains valid.
The_Alxhemist
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Was just about to point this out.
The Konohamaru calc was accepted and added to the profiles before iirc but removed for some weird reason?. If this gets accepted then a shitload of characters like Ku, Jugo and other anime canon characters that scale to Team 7 will get upgraded too
Testarossa002
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The point is that he can take action against said Lightning
It makes no sense for Teen 3T Kakashi to take action against something moving at a particular speed and MS Itachi was considered to be a siting duck against the same speed
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That's because they're not both treated as the same speed.... I already explained this to you.
Testarossa002
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Baffles me too
The calc has been there since 2020
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ill try and mention it in my Boruto CRT, but im pretty sure there's going to be a Naruto speed CRT at some point
Testarossa002
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You did not
You only talked about the various raitons which are assumed to be the speed of lightning
Zetsu considered kirin to be the speed of CTG lightning in Narutoverse
The one involving Kakashi was an actual CTG lightning i.e not involving any chakra shenanigans
Why are both not the same speed?
Zetsu supposedly has an idea on what the speed of CTG lightning is
That aside
Kirin is only 2.7 times faster than the movement speed of 3T Shippuden Kakashi
Apart from the fact that it doesn't seem enough to completely blitz a mangekyo wielding itachi, A 30% capacity itachi was able to keep up just fine with 3T Kakashi as at the beginning of Shippuden
The more you look at it, the more holes you find in both the calc and zetsu's claim
Which again, is completely based on speculations as he has no prior knowledge on the jutsu nor it's mechanics
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