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Guns ap and pircing damage

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JustANormalLemon

JustANormalLemon

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Pretty simple, Guns have 9-C AP, but their pircing damage makes them able to damage characters around tier 8-B (I don't remenber the exactly tier you need to be bullet proof), but here is the problem... we don't have this writen anywhere in the wiki, beingh basically a knoladge menbers of the wiki need to pass one to the other only. I propose we make a page in the wiki only to give "The real world" exemples of pircing damage and up to how tiers they can damage


They main diference betwing this type of damage to standar AP is the fact they can't do high are of damage into the tagert, only making holes into them, a gun for exemple can damage a 8-C character, but would need to hit a weak spot to actually kill, like a heart or the brain, or make them bleed out

While standard AP battles they don't need to hit wiki spots or vital organs to actually kill a oponent necessaraly
 
Bullets, along with fall damage, is the most inconsistent thing that exists in fiction. Characters like Homelander, who is 9-A, is invulnerable against bullets, but characters like Makima, who is High 8-C, is completely vulnerable to bullets and needs immortality to survive

It's too inconsistent to create a standard
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
Bullets, along with fall damage, is the most inconsistent thing that exists in fiction. Characters like Homelander, who is 9-A, is invulnerable against bullets, but characters like Makima, who is High 8-C, is completely vulnerable to bullets and needs immortality to survive

It's too inconsistent to create a standard
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It's a diferent situation as bullets are based on pircing damage and work like this in real Life as wel, beingh able to damage even rock like surfaces
Propellus said:
We already have this.
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Yes, we have, but It's not expecific, especially whem we talk about guns and how they can theorically let a character kill aanother around 4 tiers above the gun registered AP
 
The point is, it has to depend on piercing damage resistance
 
As Propellus mentioned, Surface area already explains details. In addition to that, some characters are more durable to specific types of attacks due to being armored or just naturally having a hard outer body which makes them stronger against sharper or pointier attacks while being more vulnerable to certain types of smashing attacks such as giant hammers.

Though, in more extreme examples such as characters who are consistently comparable to various characters ranging from planetary to cosmic tier fighters, it's more so prone to PIS similar to freefall damage.
 
I mean, like for an example, I can have bedbugs bite me due to piercing damage, and yet they're unremarkable in strength
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
As Propellus mentioned, Surface area already explains details. In addition to that, some characters are more durable to specific types of attacks due to being armored or just naturally having a hard outer body which makes them stronger against sharper or pointier attacks while being more vulnerable to certain types of smashing attacks such as giant hammers.

Though, in more extreme examples such as characters who are consistently comparable to various characters ranging from planetary to cosmic tier fighters, it's more so prone to PIS similar to freefall damage.
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I agree, but the fact guns are so common makes me belive we should have in deep exemples of that, and as I showed above there are people that don't understand that a 9-C atack could damage a 8-B character for exemple, so a exemple for characters eith no special gun resistence but high ap seens needed
 
I just think giving people a easier time to unserstand that a gun with 9-C atack could theorically one shoot a 8-B character, sinse It's a really high AP diference. So making a page to show exemples of that would help a lot of threads with characters that use guns
 
Either way, I'm happy with what we currently have, because piercing damage is way too inconsistent for a standard like what you're suggesting
 
Propellus said:
Either way, I'm happy with what we currently have, because piercing damage is way too inconsistent for a standard like what you're suggesting
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As I said we should at least have some exemples with numbers so It's not a so impossible concept at It seens for some
 
Yeah, naw, who let him cook

Let's start with the elephant in the room, to damage a High 8-C at all with a bullet you need 50 BMG rounds at bare minimum, something with a lot of Unga bunga, a lot of speed, and a lot of piercing damage. Things not present in the usual .22 Long Rifle, 9mm, or a .45 ACP. If you're not using borderline or straight up Anti-Air rounds, you aren't damaging even an 8-C with anything short of sniper caliber.

It should depend on the character and their piercing damage resistance, as well as the round and their tier.
 
DaReaperMan said:
Yeah, naw, who let him cook

Let's start with the elephant in the room, to damage a High 8-C at all with a bullet you need 50 BMG rounds at bare minimum, something with a lot of Unga bunga, a lot of speed, and a lot of piercing damage. Things not present in the usual .22 Long Rifle, 9mm, or a .45 ACP. If you're not using borderline or straight up Anti-Air rounds, you aren't damaging even an 8-C with anything short of sniper caliber.

It should depend on the character and their piercing damage resistance, as well as the round and their tier.
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Yee, that's what I mean, It's not a simple question. So making a list of how they would affect... a wall of various duras, no extra pircing damage resistence

As for exemple the thread I linked above, as we can see, he doubted a 9-C gun could harm a 9-B human character
 
JustANormalLemon said:
Yee, that's what I mean, It's not a simple question. So making a list of how they would affect... a wall of various duras, no extra pircing damage resistence

As for exemple the thread I linked above, as we can see, he doubted a 9-C gun could harm a 9-B human character
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You'd need a lot of gun video watching- or to own a **** ton of guns- to do that. That's where your suggestion is impractical.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
As Propellus mentioned, Surface area already explains details. In addition to that, some characters are more durable to specific types of attacks due to being armored or just naturally having a hard outer body which makes them stronger against sharper or pointier attacks while being more vulnerable to certain types of smashing attacks such as giant hammers.

Though, in more extreme examples such as characters who are consistently comparable to various characters ranging from planetary to cosmic tier fighters, it's more so prone to PIS similar to freefall damage.
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Yep, also not to mention even if we get solid numbers, the issue now is whatever it should chalk up as a PIS, inconsistency, or just being a anti feat (assuming they have any feats that is pretty much consistent going against their higher ratings if anything).

Also DaReaper is correct given how many guns are out there in the world.

Ranging from your regular trusty pistols to sniper rifles to a ******* machine gun, it is gonna create a mess.

I usually treat the guns ranging from 9C to 9A.

For sniper rifles, they ain’t 8C by default unless you want to talk about the 50 Cal Barrett Sniper Rifle.
 
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I wouldn't assume anything above the energy yield of the actual cartridge used against them. Like Propellus and DDM said, Piercing damage is insanely inconsistent and there is no reliable way to convert pressure to joules without having a displacement and an impact area at hand which is highly complicated to do without some good equipment and even then there are issues.
 
As far as AP is concerned, we just use the KE calculation. But we acknowledge that they can hurt characters higher than that via penetration.
 
I’d say the best way to calculate AP in general from damaging a larger surface through piercing is to just compare the frontal surface area of the piercing object to the frontal surface area of the object/person they are affecting like we do with giants punching bodies smaller than their fists or humans surviving waves larger than themselves.
 
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DarkDragonMedeus said:
As far as AP is concerned, we just use the KE calculation. But we acknowledge that they can hurt characters higher than that via penetration.
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That I am aware. Also this should technically apply to scientific fiction guns like the Assault Rifle from the Halo series as pretty much most if not all sc fi weaponry technically have penetration to said the least.
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
That I am aware. Also this should technically apply to scientific fiction guns like the Assault Rifle from the Halo series as pretty much most if not all sc fi weaponry technically have penetration to said the least.
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More so any gun that behaves similarly to most RL guns and are basically just ordinary bullets made of typical ammunition technology. Of course Adamantium bullets or Magic/UES bullets are different though.
 
Psychomaster35 said:
I’d say the best way to calculate AP in general from damaging a larger surface through piercing is to just compare the frontal surface area of the piercing object to the frontal surface area of the object/person they are affecting like we do with giants punching bodies smaller than their fists or humans surviving waves larger than themselves.
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There is also Aliens as well, but we don’t usually take their biology into consideration since that tends to varied as well.

DarkDragonMedeus said:
More so any gun that behaves similarly to most RL guns and are basically just ordinary bullets made of typical ammunition technology. Of course Adamantium bullets or Magic/UES bullets are different though.
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Yeah, I still not disagreeing with you for that matter. Just doing some clarification as I still agree that piercing damage is such a tricky matter when it comes to fiction.

The matter does get more complicated if we considered fictional railguns, Magnetic Acceleration Cannons, and other ones, but that is just from the sc fi genre.

Edit: Also plasma weaponry, but they don’t actually penetrate typically IIRC.
 
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Everythig said above seens to make sense, so how about we just add a addendo about guns specifically in the dura page sinse It's the most common use of pircing damage to damage comsoderable higher duras
 
Psychomaster35 said:
I’d say the best way to calculate AP in general from damaging a larger surface through piercing is to just compare the frontal surface area of the piercing object to the frontal surface area of the object/person they are affecting like we do with giants punching bodies smaller than their fists or humans surviving waves larger than themselves.
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Nope. Can't do that for bullets. It was tried already (wielded 8A energy or so), and was rejected by DontTalkDT.
 
KLOL506 said:
Nope. Can't do that for bullets. It was tried already (wielded 8A energy or so), and was rejected by DontTalkDT.
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Kill me.

I get behind 8C sniper caliber if we take into account the 50 Cal ones (I honestly don’t recall the other ones necessarily having 8C energy for that matter), but 8A, oh HELL NO.
 
Blades and Teeth…

Blades are concentrated on a smaller area to penetrate while Teeths tend to varied since again, we humans don’t have pointy sharp tooths obviously
 
How about we just put "Higher trough pircing damage" to all the gun profiles like we do for animal with sharp claws and teeth?
 
KLOL506 said:
Nope. Not even that.
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Yeah plus it wouldn’t really make sense to get a unrealistic insanely high energy yield from blade and teeth on top of that.

JustANormalLemon said:
How about we just put "Higher trough pircing damage" to all the gun profiles like we do for animal with sharp claws and teeth?
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This has been done before on profiles, but is more optional rather than mandatory as I have see it done on the Meta from Red vs Blue profile before it got edited into something else.
 
JustANormalLemon said:
Or "much higher" sinse It can let guns damage some tiers above their normal AP
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No on this though as piercing damage does have limitations especially if they don’t have any feats on that level.

I will get if the bullets are enhanced by specific means, but by themselves, I will say no to that
 
JustANormalLemon said:
I didn't understoody anything

Neat
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The point is much higher through penetration shouldn’t been used since as far as I am aware, it is only because the bullets never actually harm higher than what they usually deal with as in ie. A few tiers above when really it is more or less higher in the same tier.


After all, bullets don’t usually kill those since they more or less still survive the bullets and ain’t game changers or anything.
 
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