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I agree. Modern Namor had tanked an Gamma Enhanced physical attack from She-Hulk and iirc caught a energy punch from Captain Marvel as well.MJF6219 said:
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Grey Hulk and Thing Revision
- Thread starter ByAsura
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Thing wasn't "unharmed" in that scan.LordTracer said:
No this is a different fight, the one where Ben gave Norrin all he had and couldn't scratch him.
The narration says Ben only overcame "enough pressure to flatten a concrete fortress".
Colossus wasn't trying to kill him pretty explicitly in this storyline.
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He was unharmed, nothing at all implies he was damaged by that hit.
It came immediately after, it's from the same issue.
And...? He was still able to break out of Power Cosmic Doom's grip and send him flying with a punch.
Based on... what exactly?
It came immediately after, it's from the same issue.
And...? He was still able to break out of Power Cosmic Doom's grip and send him flying with a punch.
Based on... what exactly?
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That is not the face of someone who tanked a punch.LordTracer said:
Doom was pretty explicitly toying with Ben out of sadism.
https://i.imgur.com/zX6Lx0W.jpg
Colossus in this same storyline refuses to kill even while made mentally unstable by being a host of the Phoenix Force.
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You mean the completely neutral expression on his face? Also Ben basically said Surfer wasn't doing much.
Doom's dialogue doesn't imply toying in the slightest. It basically all but states he's trying to kill Ben.
That is Phoenix Five Colossus. Not Unstoppable Colossus. So again I ask, what implies Unstoppable Colossus wasn't tryin' to kill Ben?
Doom's dialogue doesn't imply toying in the slightest. It basically all but states he's trying to kill Ben.
That is Phoenix Five Colossus. Not Unstoppable Colossus. So again I ask, what implies Unstoppable Colossus wasn't tryin' to kill Ben?
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That's not a neutral expression dude, Ben is clearly not no-selling the punch.LordTracer said:
He's literally asking Ben to beg for his life.
They're the same character, with Phoenix Five Colossus being mentally unwell as shown in AvX, if Colossus wouldn't kill Spider-Man in that situation, he definitely wouldn't kill Ben.
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It really is a neutral expression, I don't know what you're getting from it. And he pretty much is, immediately after that hit Ben says; "If that's the best ya can do, whitey - ferget it!" Ben wasn't harmed.
Doom also says; "Let me drink in the sounds of your final, helpless whimpering!" Final. As in, he's attempting to kill Ben.
Except this is not the same situation. One was Phoenix Five Colossus, the other is Unstoppable Colossus. I'm going to need evidence that shows Colossus in that situation wasn't trying to kill Ben.
Doom also says; "Let me drink in the sounds of your final, helpless whimpering!" Final. As in, he's attempting to kill Ben.
Except this is not the same situation. One was Phoenix Five Colossus, the other is Unstoppable Colossus. I'm going to need evidence that shows Colossus in that situation wasn't trying to kill Ben.
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His face is scrunched up and his arm is flailing around, he's clearly not unharmed, Ben is just acting tough like he usually does.
Doom clearly wants Ben to beg for mercy before he kills him, if he was really trying to kill him he would just be blasting him into space where he can't breathe.
This Colossus has literally the same personality but is less mentally unstable, what are you talking about.
Doom clearly wants Ben to beg for mercy before he kills him, if he was really trying to kill him he would just be blasting him into space where he can't breathe.
This Colossus has literally the same personality but is less mentally unstable, what are you talking about.
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The Thing's face looks like it normally does, even to the point of having literally no expression, also his arm is flailing because he's on a hoverbike. You're looking way too far into the simple art style of comic. If they wanted to imply he was lying, there would probably be an internal monologue.
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Asura basically said what I would've responded.
And why exactly would that one very specific method be the only thing Doom was doing if he was trying to kill him? Especially when Doom made it quite clear he was going to kill Ben, yet Ben was still able to break out of his grip.
Based on what in that storyline? Can you not simply give something that shows Colossus' personality is the exact same?
And why exactly would that one very specific method be the only thing Doom was doing if he was trying to kill him? Especially when Doom made it quite clear he was going to kill Ben, yet Ben was still able to break out of his grip.
Based on what in that storyline? Can you not simply give something that shows Colossus' personality is the exact same?
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Doom also says he's only applying a ton per square inch of force, lol.
Colossus after he became a Phoenix host literally helped take over the world and gave whales legs with matter manipulation just to see what would happen, whereas when he was the Juggernaut he was acting completely normal.
Colossus after he became a Phoenix host literally helped take over the world and gave whales legs with matter manipulation just to see what would happen, whereas when he was the Juggernaut he was acting completely normal.
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>Solar System level Thing and Cyclops
Jesus Christ people maybe at some point you need to recognize the scaling is out of wack and that you need to take a step down?
Jesus Christ people maybe at some point you need to recognize the scaling is out of wack and that you need to take a step down?
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I said specifically I don't believe that Cyclops and Colossus are 4-B. Colossus is consistently weaker than The Thing and has only matched him twice, while Cyclops has no real feats placing him in this tier.
What's wrong with The Thing being 4-B? He's fought the Hulk and other 4-Bs on multiple occasions. Maybe you should recognize that your scaling system for all these characters just doesn't work.
Anyway, I'm willing to compromise, as I said before. There's also some Star level feats coming in.
What's wrong with The Thing being 4-B? He's fought the Hulk and other 4-Bs on multiple occasions. Maybe you should recognize that your scaling system for all these characters just doesn't work.
Anyway, I'm willing to compromise, as I said before. There's also some Star level feats coming in.
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I think that the Cyclops reference is regarding another current thread.
Regardless, I agree with Matthew. The Thing and Grey Hulk are officially supposed to be far weaker than the 4-B characters. Marvel matchups are recurrently completely illogical and inconsistent, and if we scaled absolutely everybody to absolutely everybody they have fought or caused damage to, we would would likely end up with 1-A aunt May.
Please read and reread the Power-scaling Rules for Marvel and DC Comics page until you properly understand it. If we upgrade the Thing and Grey Hulk, who all the current 5-A characters are scaled to, we would have to let all of them follow suit, which is highly inappropriate.
Regardless, I agree with Matthew. The Thing and Grey Hulk are officially supposed to be far weaker than the 4-B characters. Marvel matchups are recurrently completely illogical and inconsistent, and if we scaled absolutely everybody to absolutely everybody they have fought or caused damage to, we would would likely end up with 1-A aunt May.
Please read and reread the Power-scaling Rules for Marvel and DC Comics page until you properly understand it. If we upgrade the Thing and Grey Hulk, who all the current 5-A characters are scaled to, we would have to let all of them follow suit, which is highly inappropriate.
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@Ant
Well yea they are overall treated as weaker then some of the 4-B characters, but do you truly think they should be considered like Billions of times weaker then them? Since like even if we put them as High 5-A, I'm pretty that's still a huge gap between being even baseline 4-B.
Plus The Thing has literally consistently fought more 4-Bs and even fought them much more frequently then a lot of the characters who are actually listed as being 4-B have, or at least he use to all the time back in like the 60s, 70s, and 80s. Which is why I still think that maybe Classic and Modern keys could be viable for him.
Well yea they are overall treated as weaker then some of the 4-B characters, but do you truly think they should be considered like Billions of times weaker then them? Since like even if we put them as High 5-A, I'm pretty that's still a huge gap between being even baseline 4-B.
Plus The Thing has literally consistently fought more 4-Bs and even fought them much more frequently then a lot of the characters who are actually listed as being 4-B have, or at least he use to all the time back in like the 60s, 70s, and 80s. Which is why I still think that maybe Classic and Modern keys could be viable for him.
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Spider-Man is not treated as many trillions of times weaker than the Hulk and Thor, and the Hulk and Thor are not treated as infinitely weaker than Odin. Yet they still are. Again, Marvel matchup scaling is complete schizophrenic incoherent nonsense, and hard to properly make sense of.
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Well, here's that star level thing. I'll let you all discuss whether or not that feat is legit.
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For what it's worth Havok has some planetary feats.
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Others but it is in an amped state which does not scale to Cyclops.
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I don't know.
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I do think we should do the classic and modern keys.
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I did some digging and it does seem marvel has ages in publication like DC.
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Yep, agreed. Within the Bronze Age of marvel, like a huge portion of the Brute-like characters (Thing, Hulk, Hercules, Thor, Silver Surfer, Namor, Juggernaut, Abomination, etc) used to all be treated as being comparable to each other. It seems clear that isn't really the case anymore, but at a point in time they were all undeniably treated as being quite close to each other in strength.Peter "Quicksilver" Maximoff said:
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There's a Golden, Bronze and Modern Age for Marvel.
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I do not think that scaling all of the profiles that way is realistic to achieve in a proper manner, since all of the feats for all of the pages would have to be categorised as well, and there have been no company-wide reboots.
3 keys for She-Hulk is fine though, as she explicitly grew in power in stages.
3 keys for She-Hulk is fine though, as she explicitly grew in power in stages.
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I disagree with giving all profiles keys.
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I still think that we should only insert different era keys into the profiles for characters that blatantly changed a lot in terms of relative power levels, or have different incarnations like the Hulk.
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I agree. This is just an attempt to make everyone scale to each other and get away with it.Antvasima said:
When the simpler solution is that Thing, Grey Hulk, Namor, etc simply shouldn't scale to Tier 4 stuff, and Cyclops isn't Planetary.
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I definitely wasn't trying to go for that at all matt. I was just offering an alternative solution. Namor definitely scales to 4-B, he has more 4-B feats the Captain Marvel, so i don't see why he shouldn't scale.
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@ Ant and Matt
Yea no one here Was trying to give a bunch of different profiles those keys, mainly just Thing, since out of every character I just listed in my post (8th up from this one) the Thing is the only one who doesn't have a 4-B rating, despite having an uncanny amount of consistency of fighting 4-B characters, something he used to do more commonly in the Bronze Age era of Marvel.
Yea no one here Was trying to give a bunch of different profiles those keys, mainly just Thing, since out of every character I just listed in my post (8th up from this one) the Thing is the only one who doesn't have a 4-B rating, despite having an uncanny amount of consistency of fighting 4-B characters, something he used to do more commonly in the Bronze Age era of Marvel.
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And besides we did the exact same thing for Captain Marvel, so what makes The Thing (and the characters that he scales to/characters that scale to him) so much different? Especially when considering he seems to have more consistency with fighting 4-B characters then Even Captain Marvel does her self.
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