Gravity Falls downgrade summary

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Huh, I guessd "definition of insanity" was an actually fitting title.

First Thread


So, to the meat of it: The thread is about downgrading Time Baby and Bill both.

Time Baby: Has no Low 2-C feats, governing something doesn't give AP.

It should be downgraded to simply High 3-A (Described as a "time eating baby", a futuristic civilization was helpless against it)


Bill Cipher: He never fused dimensions or universes, he doesn't have absolute control over the nightmare realm and it is described as making portals in between realities, not encompassing them.

It should be downgraded to At least High 3-A (One-shot time baby, has complete control over space and time in gravity falls), Low 2-C with Environmental Destruction (The connection between the nightmare realm and the universe caused it's laws to fall apart, and was stated tohat it would eventually destroy it if not stopped)

Oh, and the whole "reality falls apart" due to the lack of laws is not aplicable to AP, let alone striking streanght, it is merely Environmental Destruction.

 

[DMB_1]

IMO, it should be "Low 2-C over time", as environmental destruction is usually outright not usable in combat, while destroying spacetime is, he just needs time to do so (though this would not scale to striking strength or durability).

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I guess that would work too. Though, anybody who doesn't rely on space and time would be unafected by it.

 

[Antvasima]

You should check the Knowledgeable Members List and the Gravity Falls verse page for staff members to ask to comment here.

 

[MrBreakout]

I see

 

[Totallynotchewbacca]

Well since he has accelerated development he should be

"At least High 3-A, Low 2-C over time via accelerated development"

because of fords whole he gets stronger every minute thing

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

No, thay is absolutly unfounded. He was being restricted, and there is no proof it would grow that dtrong, and claiming he would needs actual backing up, as low 2-C tends to be infinitly above High 3-A.

 

[Totallynotchewbacca]

i thought this since DMB 1's statement made sense to you and ford went out and said that he is growing stronger but ok

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

DMB is talking about how time baby said reality would fall aprt. Bill himself has nothing to do with that beyond makin the portal.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

"As low 2-C tends to be infinity above High 3-A"

Limited 4-D high 3-A isn't, infinite 3-D high 3-A is.

And I think it was agreed enviromental destruction is treated as non combat applicable too often when it's done through direct abilities

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Although... I'm not entirely sure.


If bill is high 3-A, he would be "at least high 3-A", I think.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Exept that an universe can be made out of infinite time and such, not that it matters, as assuming he can grow that much has no backing.

It isn't done through a direct ability.

 

[Elizhaa]

Time Wish could be a Low 2-C device, inferior to Time Baby.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Uh... That doesen't look Low 2-C, just causality manipulation, but I'm not entirely sure.

 

[Elizhaa]

Uh... That doesen't look Low 2-C, just causality manipulation, but I'm not entirely sure.

With it, one could make a wish that alters spacetime without causing time paradox.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

I don't think that's Universe level+ in AP, just causality manipulation with Universe level+ range. I could be wrong, however.

 

[Elizhaa]

Uh... That doesen't look Low 2-C, just causality manipulation, but I'm not entirely sure.

With it, one could make a wish that alters spacetime without causing time paradox.

I think you are right about it being possibly Causality Manipulation, @ZacharyGrossman273.

Another possibility is the instant rewriting of a whole reality, by making Reality X (the current reality) the cause of Reality Y (a tailor-made one).
	~ Causality Manipulation​

Either way, this device looks to have a solid Low 2-C feat.

Edit: Moreover, Rewriting/warping the universe is Low 2-C feat as proven by characters like Jean Grey (Marvel Comics), Shulk, and many others.

So, the Low 2-C rating looks legits for both Bill Cipher and Time Baby. A profile for the Time Wish could be used as supporting evidence.

 

[Totallynotchewbacca]

if time baby used this stuff multiple times would that be 2-C or just low 2-C repeated?

 

[Elizhaa]

if time baby used this stuff multiple times would that be 2-C or just low 2-C repeated?

Time Baby's power logically would be better or at least equal to the Time Wish since he is the ruler of Space-Time

 

[Totallynotchewbacca]

yes but would that be Low 2-C or 2-C if he used it multiple times?

 

[Elizhaa]

yes but would that be Low 2-C or 2-C if he used it multiple times?

Upon the further review from the episode, it looks the Time Wish, given from the trial, is made from Time Baby's power and it is not just a device like I thought. @Totallynotchewbacca, Time Baby would be Low 2-C to 2-C.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Being able to change space-time without paradixes is only acasuality and casuality manipulation, it is in no way AP.

Being able to use it multiple times doesn't make him 2-C either.

 

[Elizhaa]

It is a case by case basis, not a rule about AP, @Risci-viragosi,

What is the Time Wish can do is warping the universe to essentially create a new timeline from a wish which a Low 2-C feat.

Universe level+: ("Low 2-C") This is for characters who can destroy and/or create the entire 4-dimensional space-time of a single universe, not just the physical matter within one. For example, an entire timeline.
	~ Tiering System​

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Wait, where is the new timeline part stated again?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

And those characters get low 2-C for erasing and recreating a new timeline in it's place.

 

[Elizhaa]

And those characters get low 2-C for erasing and recreating a new timeline in it's place.

@Ricsi-viragosi, this was my point about the Time Wish work.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

So you assume it destroys the timeline and creates a new one, instwad of it being caauality manip? Unless there is proof, that isn't gonna work.

 

[Elizhaa]

So you assume it destroys the timeline and creates a new one, instwad of it being caauality manip? Unless there is proof, that isn't gonna work.

From Causality Manipulation, "another possibility is the instant rewriting of a whole reality, by making Reality X (the current reality) the cause of Reality Y (a tailor-made one)",- which is how the Time Wish work.

Rewriting timeline, would changing the original timeline to a new one, hence like the Low 2-C characters above, erasing the old timeline and creating a timeline.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

But you cannot assume it does that. You have to use stuff that is actually proven, not just an assumption.

There is nothing implying it is destroying the old reality and creating a new one. It is simply changin the past without paradoxes.

 

[Elizhaa]

Rewriting reality, in this case, involved changing the timeline (past, future, present) which would be a Low 2-C feat.

 

[Elizhaa]

@Ricsi-viragosi, either way, I think it better to wait for more inputs from other regarding the Time Wish's point.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

No.

Ypu completly ignored what I said. Changing the past like that is hax, and not aplicable to AP. Don't want to be an asshole, but you are trying to inflate changin the past to being able to destroy all of time and space

Give proof, or stop.

 

[TheArsenal1212]

So are we moving him to High 3A now or do we still need more discussion

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The only argument for tier 2 is time baby changin the past withouttime paradoxes, which isn't gonna fly with the proof it has

 

[Elizhaa]

The only argument for tier 2 is time baby changin the past withouttime paradoxes, which isn't gonna fly with the proof it has

Time Wish could be a to be exact for now

 

[Elizhaa]

So are we moving him to High 3A now or do we still need more discussion

We need more inputs from others members such as staffs

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

No. Again.

You need to prove the stuff you claim. That is litirally equated to time traveling without paradoxes, it is not an AP feat until you prove it is.

 

[Elizhaa]

Just in case, a casual High 3-A feat for Bill is Mabelband: Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot, in this Thread stated that "It contains an infinite amount of energy which allows your desires to be completely and utterly fulfilled."

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Containing infinite energy is below the High 3-A we would rate him litirally infinitly due to being 3D.

Seriously tough, being able to alter time is not a low 2-C feat.

 

[TheArsenal1212]

Isn't altering time like Time Baby's more like decent time manipulation ?