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(GRACE) All Might vs Monkey D. Garp

NecroVoi said:
All might has a much better AP, has Garp a wincon?
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Whats the AP difference? Garp's just a brawler honestly so he doesn't do well if he's physically outmatched, though if the AP gap isn't too significant he can still win.
 
Epsilon R said:
Iirc Garp is above 3 Gigatons
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Actually Garp scale above 1 Gigatons due of the recent downgrade.

Still, the gap shouldn't be so massive to make this an AP stomp.
 
All Might wins, Garp doesn't really have any advantage here since all he can really do is punch (Until more is shown).
 
NecroVoi said:
How many tons has AM?
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All Might scale above 2.41 Gigatons of TNT, with his Storm Smash's feat.

Garp scale above 1.132 Gigatons of TNT, via scaling from Gear 4th Luffy (Dressrosa Arc).

While All Might seen to have greater high AP, Garp's scaling should nullify the gap since he is supposed to be stronger than admirals like Akainu, which are stronger than Top Yonko Commanders, who are comparable to Gear 4th Luffy.
 
Purgy said:
All Might wins, Garp doesn't really have any advantage here since all he can really do is punch (Until more is shown).
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Isn't the same with All Might? He also rely on punches and kicks only, with occasionally air pressure as range attacks, but that's it.

And what about Stamina, Current Garp should still have greater stamina than fodder from East Blue who can fight for days.
 
Stefano4444 said:
Purgy said:
All Might wins, Garp doesn't really have any advantage here since all he can really do is punch (Until more is shown).
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Isn't the same with All Might? He also rely on punches and kicks only, with occasionally air pressure as range attacks, but that's it.
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Yes but All Might has higher AP, this fight solely comes down to that honestly, Garp has nothing else to offer.

Why would he have higher Stamina than anybody? He's super old and if he's anything like Rayleigh, his Stamina should actually be pretty bad given how Rayleigh fought Kizaru.
 
Purgy said:
Yes but All Might has higher AP, this fight solely comes down to that honestly, Garp has nothing else to offer.
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What about Haki, he is supposed to be a proficient Busoshoku and Kenbunshoku Haki user.

And there also the fact that Current Garp older would have more Combat Experience than Prime All Might.

Purgy said:
Why would he have higher Stamina than anybody? He's super old and if he's anything like Rayleigh, his Stamina should actually be pretty bad given how Rayleigh fought Kizaru.
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What are you talking about? Rayleigh didn't show any sign of fatigue while fighting Kizaru.

And yes he should, if characters like Mohji and Cabaji, who are physically inferior to Current Garp in anyway, could fought each other for days, then i don't see why Garp shouldn't be able to do the same.

And is not like they are they are the only ones in the verse, Ace and Jinbe fought for many days just like Aokiji and Akainu, so yes Garp definitively have better Stamina.
 
1. No idea why you're scaling AP to Stamina, doesn't work like that, infact scaling Stamina from one character to another is already shaky at best.

2. "Suppose to be", and his CoA is already applied to his AP since his AP comes from defeating Akainu, something he can't do without CoA. CoO shouldn't even be mentioned given he has exactly zero feats or statements with it.

3. Yes he did though... Read his profile, "Such as when he got tired in his fight against Kizaru". Their fight lasted minutes at absolute best, this Garp should be comparable to that Rayleigh in terms of Stamina.

4. You're disregarding that Garp is old and hasn't demonstrated that he's actively in combat meaning there's absolutely no reason to assume his Stamina is great and comparable to other characters. Also, I just noticed Garp's Stamina is listed as "Extremely High" for the reasons you're using, which is just illogical especially given we know that age effects Stamina in One Piece, I'll be sure to make a CRT about it when the forum move is over.

5. Ace, Jinbe, Aokiji and Akainu aren't extremely old like Garp is, I mean Garp is literally 78 years old, they also regularly fight, maintaining peak performance whereas there's no evidence Garp does.
 
Purgy said:
1. No idea why you're scaling AP to Stamina, doesn't work like that, infact scaling Stamina from one character to another is already shaky at best.
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And yet right after say that you're comparing Garp to Rayleigh to prove that his Stamina isn't impressive, while ignoring the characters that should be physically inferior to Garp in everyway, including Stamina, have show more impressive feats.

Purgy said:
2. "Suppose to be", and his CoA is already applied to his AP since his AP comes from defeating Akainu, something he can't do without CoA. CoO shouldn't even be mentioned given he has exactly zero feats or statements with it.
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Yes it would be mentioned since it was stated that all vice-admirals are capable to use Haki.
 
I'm comparing Garp to Rayleigh for your benefit lol, otherwise he has zero Stamina feats since the best he's done is fight people for less than a minute. AP inferiority doesn't correlate to less Stamina, and again you're ignoring that Garp is 78 years old.

You misunderstand, I wasn't saying Garp can't use CoO, I said it shouldn't be mentioned because his actual proficiency with it is completely unknown.

Btw why did you ignore half my post lol...
 
Purgy said:
I'm comparing Garp to Rayleigh for your benefit lol, otherwise he has zero Stamina feats since the best he's done is fight people for less than a minute. AP inferiority doesn't correlate to less Stamina, and again you're ignoring that Garp is 78 years old.
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While Garp is old there is no indication that he is so old that he would get tired in just a few minutes, there is no indication that his age had affect him with such extend.

And yes Garp doesn't have Stamina feats, but we can still scale him to other characters, especially if are well know fodders who should be physically inferior to Garp, unless you think that charactes like Cabaji and Mohji can capable to potentially outlast Garp in a fight.

And if we are really going to only compare characters with similar age, then Garp should be comparable to Old Whitebeard, who could get half of his face melted and a hole in his chest and still beat the crap out of Akainu, and this along side the fact that he was ill and he was slice in the belly.

Purgy said:
You misunderstand, I wasn't saying Garp can't use CoO, I said it shouldn't be mentioned because his actual proficiency with it is completely unknown.
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Considering that characters much younger and less skilled like Doflamingo or Fujitora were able to become proficient haki user, it should be more than reasonable to assume that Garp should at very least be on a similar level, since basically any big name of the New World is show to be a proficient haki user.
 
Garp's Haki isn't taken into account for his AP.

He's High 7-A because he's superior to Akainu AND because he's stronger than Marco.

His pain tolerance is also monstruous. He took an axe slash to the chest, bleed from it, and not even then he woke up from his nap. He literally got a Mortal wound while sleeping and he didn't care.

Garp's scaling and Haki enhancements should do for the AP difference. Not to mention he's a military trained soldier with decades of experience fighting with people way deadlier than All Might, namely Xebec, Roger, Shiki and Shirohige as the most notable individuals. Whereas All Might, at this point, didn't have too many rivals until All For One.

Garp's Strength has decreased with age, but it's not like he's an useless old geezer. You use Rayleigh as an anti-feat, well, Rayleigh wasn't exactly exhausted from fighting Kizaru. Instead, he said he couldn't help the Strawhats and Kizaru at the same time now that he's old.

In the other hand, we have Shirohige to prove that no matter how old you are. If you are resilient enough, you can take almost anything.

All Might has AP and range, but the former is cancelled by Garp's scaling and Haki, and range gets nulled because All Might doesn't play range game too often. Garp has formal training and experience (and we can see the effects of it in Koby and Helmeppo, for example).

Also the AP difference isn't massive.

Garp takes this.
 
While Garp is old there is no indication that he is so old that he would get tired in just a few minutes, there is no indication that his age had affect him with such extend.

I mean, unless you're arguing Prime Rayleigh has Stamina that lasts a minute or two, I don't see why not.

And yes Garp doesn't have Stamina feats, but we can still scale him to other characters, especially if are well know fodders who should be physically inferior to Garp, unless you think that charactes like Cabaji and Mohji can capable to potentially outlast Garp in a fight.

Both of those characters you listed would be one shot by Garp, but again, AP doesn't correlate to Stamina, especially when we're comparing a 78 year old man with people that are in their 20's.

And if we are really going to only compare characters with similar age, then Garp should be comparable to an Old Whitebeard, who could get half of his face melted and a hole in his chest and still beat the crap out of Akainu, and this along side the fact that he was ill and he was slice in the belly.

Actually, no. Garp shouldn't be comparable to Whitebeard in terms of Stamina, especially given the only thing connecting them is their power relation in their Primes. Whitebeard is a Yonko who are constantly targetted by other pirates who want to challenge a Yonko, and we've seen that Whitebeard himself probably faces these challengers given how he accepted Ace's challenge. Garp does nothing but train fodder, escort people and that's it, he doesn't fight tough opponents nor is he ever shown to exert himself in any way shape or form. The only person Garp should scale to is Rayleigh when he fought Kizaru since they both don't train, they both don't fight tough opponents and neither of them are really targetted by tough opponents. Also, Whitebeard's insane endurance in the War can be attributed to his ridiculous willpower and his desire to save Ace whilst also protecting his crew. Lastly, even if you really want to push it, the best I'm accepting is that All Might and old man Garp are on similar levels of Stamina.

Considering that characters much younger and less skilled like Doflamingo or Fujitora were able to become proficient haki user, it should be more than reasonable to assume that Garp should at very least be on a similar level, since basically any big name of the New World is show to be a proficient haki user.

I like how you used the words, "Much younger", it illustrates my point nicely. Also, where are the feats saying Garp is more skilled in CoO than Fujitora? That's a pretty bold claim, and I bet your argument would be that Garp fought Roger like 20 something years ago.
 
Garp's Haki isn't taken into account for his AP.

He's High 7-A because he's superior to Akainu AND because he's stronger than Marco.

I mean, I already have issues with that scaling since Garp was essentially bloodlusted and wouldn't be thinking rationally, I don't think what he says in that condition should be taken with certainty.

His pain tolerance is also monstruous. He took an axe slash to the chest, bleed from it, and not even then he woke up from his nap. He literally got a Mortal wound while sleeping and he didn't care.

Mortal wound is pushing it, and not feeling pain doesn't equal him being able to fight for hours on end.

Garp's scaling and Haki enhancements should do for the AP difference. Not to mention he's a military trained soldier with decades of experience fighting with people way deadlier than All Might, namely Xebec, Roger, Shiki and Shirohige as the most notable individuals. Whereas All Might, at this point, didn't have too many rivals until All For One.

I agree Garp probably has significantly more experience, though I'm not sure about the AP, being unquantifiably above Marco doesn't mean he's stronger than All Might, it just means he's stronger than Marco.

Garp's Strength has decreased with age, but it's not like he's an useless old geezer. You use Rayleigh as an anti-feat, well, Rayleigh wasn't exactly exhausted from fighting Kizaru. Instead, he said he couldn't help the Strawhats and Kizaru at the same time now that he's old.

I never said he's useless, he's extremely powerful. His page literally states he grew tired from fighting Kizaru and I specifically remember reading that exact wording when I read those chapters a year or two ago.

In the other hand, we have Shirohige to prove that no matter how old you are. If you are resilient enough, you can take almost anything.

Don't really think it's fair to instantly apply that to Garp given the circumstances of what Whitebeard did. He went there fully intent on dying, has immense willpower and was fighting to save his crew. Garp may have been his rough equal in the past but that doesn't really apply to his old age and there's no evidence they're equals.

All Might has AP and range, but the former is cancelled by Garp's scaling and Haki, and range gets nulled because All Might doesn't play range game too often. Garp has formal training and experience (and we can see the effects of it in Koby and Helmeppo, for example).

It's not really cancelled though, as I said, Garp is unquantifiably above Marco, we can't say for certainty if that makes him superior to All Might or even equal.

Also the AP difference isn't massive.

You're right, but considering AP is all that matters in this particular fight, even a slight difference is enough to sway my vote in favor of All Might, though if you can convince me that Garp has superior AP through scaling then I'd be inclined to change my mind.
 
Purgy said:
Actually, no. Garp shouldn't be comparable to Whitebeard in terms of Stamina, especially given the only thing connecting them is their power relation in their Primes. Whitebeard is a Yonko who are constantly targetted by other pirates who want to challenge a Yonko, and we've seen that Whitebeard himself probably faces these challengers given how he accepted Ace's challenge. Garp does nothing but train fodder, escort people and that's it, he doesn't fight tough opponents nor is he ever shown to exert himself in any way shape or form.
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Ok, tell me one thing, how do you think Garp was able to keep his rank Vice-Admiral, if after Roger's death has done nothing but train fodder or escort people? No, even before retirement Garp was still active marine like he was in the past, he was still doing his duty as Marine Hero.

You say that Whitebeard is targetted by other pirates who want to challenge him, but most of those pirates are fodder, they were no challenge to him.

Purgy said:
Also, Whitebeard's insane endurance in the War can be attributed to his ridiculous willpower and his desire to save Ace whilst also protecting his crew.
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Are you telling me that Garp doesn't have the immense willpower as well, despire the fact that he is a member of the clan of D., even when techically Luffy's Conqueror Haki had be inherited by Garp's bloodline?

Purgy said:
I like how you used the words, "Much younger", it illustrates my point nicely. Also, where are the feats saying Garp is more skilled in CoO than Fujitora? That's a pretty bold claim, and I bet your argument would be that Garp fought Roger like 20 something years ago.
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I say that he should be on a similar level, not superior.

And no its simply logic, Garp have been around for much longer than Fujitora and unlike the latter he can only rely of his Haki since he don't have any Devil Fruit, meaning he would be very good in using his Haki.
 
Ok, tell me one thing, how do you think Garp was able to keep his rank Vice-Admiral, if after Roger's death has done nothing but train fodder or escort people? No, even before retirement Garp was still active marine like he was in the past, he was still doing his duty as Marine Hero.

I got the impression that the reason he was still a Vice Admiral was due to him being a symbol of the Marines due to the things he did in his Prime and because he's the Hero of the Marines, I'm sure his presence alone instills a lot of morale into other Marines. Can you show an example of him having prolonged fights or training? Also, two years is a long time for no combat/intensive training.

You say that Whitebeard is targetted by other pirates who want to challenge him, but most of those pirates are fodder, they were no challenge to him.

They're fodder in comparison to Whitebeard but fighting somebody as powerful as Ace who prior to this beat Jinbe is still better than fighting nobody, and that's just one example, the fact that Whitebeard personally accepted Ace's challenge strongly implies he does so for any challenge since iirc he didn't know who Ace was at this time.

Are you telling me that Garp doesn't have the immense willpower as well, despire the fact that he is a member of the clan of D., even when techically Luffy's Conqueror Haki had be inherited by Garp's bloodline?

This isn't really an argument, I'm sure Garp does have decent willpower, but unlike Whitebeard, he doesn't have the feats to prove it in his old age.

I say that he should be on a similar level, not superior.

Okay, doesn't really change what I said though.

And no its simply logic, Garp have been around for much longer than Fujitora and unlike the latter he can only rely of his Haki since he don't have any Devil Fruit, meaning he would be very good in using his Haki.

Garp's best and only real haki showings thus far are based on CoA, which makes sense since he's a brawler. I wouldn't be surprised if Garp's CoO is pretty decent, but you can't factually say it is and you can't really use it as an argument for him winning this thread when his proficiency with it is completely unknown.
 
I mean even if we assume that Garp can only use Basic CoO, which is a disgusting lowball considering his standing in the verse and the caliber of opponents he fought, it'd still give a pretty good advantage and would allow him to dodge most attacks while landing more hits, thus slowly overcoming the AP advantage. But I think we all know there's absolutely no way in hell Garp only has basic CoO, so the advantage is likely bigger.

I'm inclined to go with Garp FRA.
 
I was fine with that kind of logic a month or two ago but staff members have told me scaling somebody above somebody else in a certain thing due to their standing in the verse is wrong so... Yeah.
 
Purgy said:
I was fine with that kind of logic a month or two ago but staff members have told me scaling somebody above somebody else in a certain thing due to their standing in the verse is wrong so... Yeah.
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Yeah that's fine, but it's not just his title in this case. We know for a fact that Garp fought Roger, Whitebeard, Shiki, and many more Yonko level pirates on equal footing, and even pushed some to the brink sometimes. He wouldn't have been able to do that without Haki, that's just a fact. So the only assumption we are gonna make here is his level of mastery, so yeah we can't assume that he's got the highest level (even though he probably does), but he's at least proficient. Again given the fights he had against the strongest pirates in history it's not much of an assumption at all.

I get that you're trying to be safe, but in this case it really isn't much of a leap at all. In fact it's the only logical conclusion we can reach without making ridiculous claim like "Garp fought Roger to a standstill without having at least proficient Haki" .. Which is frankly ridiculous lol.
 
Purgy said:
I got the impression that the reason he was still a Vice Admiral was due to him being a symbol of the Marines due to the things he did in his Prime and because he's the Hero of the Marines, I'm sure his presence alone instills a lot of morale into other Marines. Can you show an example of him having prolonged fights or training? Also, two years is a long time for no combat/intensive training.
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I seriously doubt that someone like Garp wouldn't have train just to keep in shape during the timeskip, and even i don't think two years are enough for Garp's old age to become a serious problem.

Purgy said:
Garp's best and only real haki showings thus far are based on CoA, which makes sense since he's a brawler. I wouldn't be surprised if Garp's CoO is pretty decent, but you can't factually say it is and you can't really use it as an argument for him winning this thread when his proficiency with it is completely unknown.
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I mean if Luffy, who had only two years to learn Haki, could still become a proficient Observation Haki and Armament user, then i don't see why Garp, who had decades fighting in the New World, wouldn't be at least on a similar level (and this would still be a big lowball considering everything).
 
Fair enough, I'll concede on the premise that Garp can evade most of All Might's attacks if we assume he's proficient with CoO. Though I do want to say, being extremely skilled in CoO isn't a prerequisite for being strong, Big Mom and Kaido have both also not demonstrated any CoO feats worth mentioning, and Big Mom clearly doesn't have Advanced CoO given how she acted in the WCI arc.
 
Are we sure the AP gap isn't that large?

All Mights feat is almost 3x stronger assuming Garp is baseline and that was in his weakened form after his time limit ran out, with his prime form being much stronger.
 
Garp should scale above baseline significantly so the AP difference between the two shouldn't be that bad. All Might certainly has an advantage but it shouldn't be enough to overwhelm Garp considering his insane damage soak and he can increase his AP with his own Haki. CoA for striking and CoO for dodging. Even if we assume his CoO to be on the level of someone like Zoro then he'd still have occasional precognition, enhanced senses, extra sensory precipitation amongst other abilities like Aura Sensing. Absolute Fodder in One Piece can go at it for over 12 hours fighting non stop so Garp should scale to that at the very least even with his old age.


The only thing All Might really has here is AP and range which he won't use. Garp also has a lifting strength advantage over All Might as well, so getting up close to Garp is gonna cause issues.
 
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