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Can you link the feats/calcs that the birds have?
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Gotta Revise 'Em All, Part 2: Getting to work
- Thread starter Ayewale
- Start date
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I'm unsure.
From what I've seen so far, I think so.
Outside of the manga? No. (Also personally, I don't think Mega Rayquaza should have that Necrozma scaling, but that's just me.)
Zygarde likely is going to stay the same in the manga.
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I think so, in the games and manga at least
Same tier but different scaling chain
Mewtwo (strongest Pokémon statement go brr) > Eternatus ~ Leon’s Base Charizard
No
Only in the manga
Game Zygarde should be High 6-A. Anime Zygarde should be Low 5-B to 5-B depending on the percentage
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The issue is where to put the cap on the strongest/ultimate sort of statements considering Legendaries include Event Pokemon from those like Groudon/Kyogre, to Avatar Arceus. Would it be safer to just put At least [Safe Assumption], possibly [High-End Assumption] for the tier ?
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Groudon and Kyogre aren’t event Pokemon though, they’re just very late post-game, since you can only catch them after you beat Red.
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It is not "becoming stronger" it is just the birds who live in sinoh are stronger since they have higher feats
Well, moltres scorging the sky, i would need to go over the earlier pages to show it to you
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Well, we kinda need it for the birds‘ AP justification lol
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So? They have feats do they not? So they scale, they are legendaries still, they face the protag after they dealt with the creation trio, no reaso for them not to scale, they are really clear cut
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Once i go to my pc i will check the earlier pages, but clover was the one who did it iirc
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It's an outlier compared to literally all their other showings, also I don't think there's been any support to making separate keys for each region
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the sinoh birds only have this showing, it is their only feat
well i am just suggesting
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But it being "their only showing" relies on the acceptance of this splitting into multiple keys. Can't speak for others, but I don't agree with it. These are species profiles so it really doesn't make sense
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some individuals of the species can be stronger then others, we already do that with some species like bewear and pikachu's
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Those are special cases like the Bewear taking care of Team Rocket and Ash's Pikachu, we don't just make special cases for any Pokemon that doesn't follow the standard. Outliers exist
And unlike the examples you gave, these birds in Sinnoh aren't intended to be extremely powerful compared to how they are normally.
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that is an even simpler solution then, just ignore the sinoh birds since they are not worthy of having anything really, problem solved, mewtwo is the exact same and doesn't have contradictions, so he can safely scale to gen 6
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Or we can just scale Mewtwo to his own statement of being the strongest in HG/SS.
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LordTracer/Legendary Scaling (Games)
vsbattles.fandom.com
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i mean, that would be true regardless with what i proposed wouldn't it?
edit: nevermind, see the weather trio scaling, yeah what i proposed is irrelevant now sorry, that would upgrade gen 6 post game protags tho, but i don't think that they have a profile yet so, meh
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btw, what is the source for lugia being the "trio master" of the legendary birds in the games?
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in the games i mean
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Zygarde's percentages should scale linearly and 50% Zygarde is comparable to Xerneas and Yveltal, so 10% is 1/5 as strong and 100% is 2x strongerI filled out Mewtwo, Lugia, Ho-Oh, Kyogre, Groudon, Regigigas, Xerneas and Yveltal’s justifications, y’all feel free to fill out other justifications that are agreed upon.LordTracer/Legendary Scaling (Games)
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It originated from the anime but it's an accepted part of the lore nowadays, I mean look at Bulbapedia
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And what would be the justification for that? Is it just that he’s part of the Tao Trio with them, or is there something else?
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bulbapedia is a fan site, if we were to put that in the profiles we need to find the source in the games, or game conected media, and then use it
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It's mainly it being a part of the trio, back when only its 50% form existed. The members of these trios are always depicted as at least relative to one another, so it'd take more assumptions to claim it's significantly weaker than Xerneas and Yveltal. Supporting this is also the fact that promotional material for 100% Zygarde states it surpasses Xerneas and Yveltal
Iirc it's accepted on this wiki too, imo it just makes sense for Lugia to be the trio master of the birds
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I'm only fine with upscaling
99% of the time small percentage increases in fiction result in massive physical differences in power
So I'd rather just scale 10% Zygarde to whatever we scale the weakest legendries too or if he has a feat in that form scale it to that
2x increase for his 100% form seems good though
However that's just my opinion
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it is accepted, but based on what? with the cannon split the movie can't be used to justify it, we need some evidence if we are going to use that as a justification
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It’s really not a huge deal, Lugia scales from its own feat.
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In my opinion, this is pretty unsupported. What other series do is pretty irrelevant, especially in this case where it only has its 10%, 50%, and 100% forms, which are noticeable differences in power
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You misunderstand. The canon split only disallows cross-scaling, but general information like this is fair game
Also Lugia has a calc that would place it way above the birds anyway, so it's not as if this affects anything
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I get that but trends in fiction are trends for a reason
It's because a large amount of fictional verses do the same so it's worth asking the question "Does 10% Zygarde actually have any statements/lore/etc backing up him being stronger than a large majority of other legendaries?"
If there's no anti-feats then it's fine, but what I'm asking is if there is any
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There doesn't seem to be any. The only thing you could remotely try to argue is 10% Zygarde's base stats but we've already established that base stats are never to be used for scaling.
Hell, even in the anime where it's most prevalent, it's consistently been fodderizing fully evolved Pokemon casually. Its 50% form is only matched by Alain's Charizard, with Alain being Elite Four to Champion tier
Hell, even in the anime where it's most prevalent, it's consistently been fodderizing fully evolved Pokemon casually. Its 50% form is only matched by Alain's Charizard, with Alain being Elite Four to Champion tier
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Then it seems in this case it should be fine to use
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but why?
i know i know, i just want to be sure on the information side of things
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Don't ask me, I wasn't there for the initial thread
I could also be wrong on this, who knows
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Definitely should be
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