Gotta Revise 'Em All, Part 2: Getting to work

[y3p_owo]

We meant for the origin form that's higher because the origin form is stronger than their uh...base form?

Ah, my bad. I thought you mean their Origin Form when you said true form.

Anyways, if we are giving the avatars Low 1-C, then yes their true forms should be given it as well.

 

[Ego]

Ah, my bad. I thought you mean their Origin Form when you said true form.

Anyways, if we are giving the avatars Low 1-C, then yes their true forms should be given it as well.

Ok cool

Would this give them a 5D physiology as well?

 

[Omegabronic]

Ok cool

Would this give them a 5D physiology as well?

no, the only one who physiolically 5D/6D is the original spirit/true form arceus

 

[TheGreatMaster12]

How do we know it's the same meteor that Eternatus arrived on, for example?

Because there's not other meteor impact described on the entire game, also read my full comment please, and Calyrex also have that unique Blue Dynamax thingy



And while Dynamax is a thing that every Pokémon can do and shouldn't be special.... but Calyrex is the exception as it has a purposely made different type of Dynamax, being blue instead of red, and the game story already says that Eternatus is the origin of the Dynamax phenomenon, and everyone affected by it always displays it with red color, but Calyrex don't, meaning that there's a CONNECTION between them

 

[CloverDragon03]

Because there's not other meteor impact described on the entire game, also read my full comment please, and Calyrex also have that unique Blue Dynamax thingy



And while Dynamax is a thing that every Pokémon can do and shouldn't be special.... but Calyrex is the exception as it has a purposely made different type of Dynamax, being blue instead of red, and the game story already says that Eternatus is the origin of the Dynamax phenomenon, and everyone affected by it always displays it with red color, but Calyrex don't, meaning that there's a CONNECTION between them

This entire blue Dynamax thing you’re describing is quite literally theory crafting. How does it being blue mean there’s a connection?

 

[TheGreatMaster12]

This entire blue Dynamax thing you’re describing is quite literally theory crafting. How does it being blue mean there’s a connection?

Because as we all know Eternatus is the ORIGIN of Dynamax, all related to the Dynamax phenomenon comes from Eternatus, but we see that all the affected always have a red aura and coloration, but isn't interesting how there's lore that says that Calyrex fought Eternatus and Calyrex is literally the only Pokémon in existence with its own variation of Dynamax, also the Creation Trio being just avatars and having their own ''True Forms'' is also just theory crafting but you still take it as a fact, a little hypocrite I have to say...

 

[CloverDragon03]

Because as we all know Eternatus is the ORIGIN of Dynamax, all related to the Dynamax phenomenon comes from Eternatus, but we see that all the affected always have a red aura and coloration

None of this actually means anything about its AP itself

but isn't interesting how there's lore that says that Calyrex fought Eternatus and Calyrex is literally the only Pokémon in existence with its own variation of Dynamax

I have been looking into this to see if there's a concrete explanation on why Calyrex has a blue Dynamax. I have seen no concrete explanation so far

also the Creation Trio being just avatars and having their own ''True Forms'' is also just theory crafting but you still take it as a fact, a little hypocrite I have to say...

It is a fact, supported several times by the lore. This is not the own you think it is, and thus actually contributes nothing to the discussion

 

[Ego]

It is a fact, supported several times by the lore. This is not the own you think it is, and thus actually contributes nothing to the discussion

This I agree with

 

[CloverDragon03]

Currently looking into Calyrex lore to figure this out. Will update you all on my findings

 

[TheGreatMaster12]

None of this actually means anything about its AP itself

I have been looking into this to see if there's a concrete explanation on why Calyrex has a blue Dynamax. I have seen no concrete explanation so far

It is a fact, supported several times by the lore. This is not the own you think it is, and thus actually contributes nothing to the discussion

And Calyrex fighting and defeating Eternatus is also a fact made by the lore, but you don't want to take it because hypocrisy I guess, like, please show me ACTUAL and EXPLICIT information where is said that the Creation Trio that we know are just avatars of their ''True Form'', and I don't want to see ''vague'' lore as you call it, I want explicit statements

 

[CloverDragon03]

And Calyrex fighting and defeating Eternatus is also a fact made by the lore, but you don't want to take it because hypocrisy I guess

In everything I’ve looked into so far, Calyrex has never defeated Eternatus. At best, it assisted in the battle with it. Do remember that the lore of Sword and Shield dictates that it was Zacian and Zamazenta who did so. That’s the whole point of the Darkest Day plot

You’re trying to use something else as an attempt at a “gotcha.” Please stay on topic

 

[TheGreatMaster12]

In everything I’ve looked into so far, Calyrex has never defeated Eternatus. At best, it assisted in the battle with it. Do remember that the lore of Sword and Shield dictates that it was Zacian and Zamazenta who did so. That’s the whole point of the Darkest Day plot

You’re trying to use something else as an attempt at a “gotcha.” Please stay on topic

So we're all going to pretend that in the gap of time between 20000 years in the past to 3000 years in the past Eternatus did nothing after fighting Calyrex? We see in the game that Eternatus is an evil and chaotic creature that only cares about destruction (and if the theory of Eternatus being one of the Ancient Giants that Arceus defeated in the past comes true, then it would make even less sense that it did nothing in that gap of time)

 

[Omegabronic]

We see in the game that Eternatus is an evil and chaotic creature that only cares about destruction (and if the theory of Eternatus being one of the Ancient Giants that Arceus defeated in the past comes true, then it would make even less sense that it did nothing in that gap of time)

do we tho? from what i remember in game, eternatus doesn't seem to have much of an personality

 

[Ego]

So we're all going to pretend that in the gap of time between 20000 years in the past to 3000 years in the past Eternatus did nothing after fighting Calyrex? We see in the game that Eternatus is an evil and chaotic creature that only cares about destruction (and if the theory of Eternatus being one of the Ancient Giants that Arceus defeated in the past comes true, then it would make even less sense that it did nothing in that gap of time)

That Arceus and Eternatus is a good theory ngl

 

[TheGreatMaster12]

do we tho? from what i remember in game, eternatus doesn't seem to have much of an personality

Of course Eternatus don't have a personality, is just a creature that destroys everything on its path

 

[Omegabronic]

Of course Eternatus don't have a personality, is just a creature that destroys everything on its path

okay, but how do we know this?

 

[Ego]

Maybe Ultra Necrozma and Eternatus are 2 of the giants Arceus defeated in the lore

Ultra necrozma the beings light, Eternatus brings the darkness

 

[y3p_owo]

Bump

 

[Sniper670]

Bump.

Is this accurate?

Tinkaton

Tier: Low 7-B | 7-B | High 7-A Key: Tinkatink | Tinkatuff | Tinkaton Name: Tinkatink, Tinkatuff, Tinkaton Origin: Pokémon Gender: Female Age: Varies Classification: Metalsmith Pokémon, Hammer Pokémon Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Size Manipulation, Weapon Mastery...

vsbattles.fandom.com

If so we use this as a basis for the non legendary Pokémon.

 

[Omegabronic]

Bump.

Is this accurate?

Tinkaton

Tier: Low 7-B | 7-B | High 7-A Key: Tinkatink | Tinkatuff | Tinkaton Name: Tinkatink, Tinkatuff, Tinkaton Origin: Pokémon Gender: Female Age: Varies Classification: Metalsmith Pokémon, Hammer Pokémon Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Size Manipulation, Weapon Mastery...

vsbattles.fandom.com

If so we use this as a basis for the non legendary Pokémon.

Only the speed that is not since it uses anime

 

[Sniper670]

Alright

BTW I want to confirm something since I didn't see a crt for Tinkaton profile addition

Can you add profiles without crt?

 

[Omegabronic]

Alright

BTW I want to confirm something since I didn't see a crt for Tinkaton profile addition

Can you add profiles without crt?

Yeah acctually, jusy needs to use acceptep stuff

 

[Sniper670]

Cool.

I'm not sure what else needs to be addressed here. Mainline Game calcs are done. So anime?

 

[Omegabronic]

Cool.

I'm not sure what else needs to be addressed here. Mainline Game calcs are done. So anime?

There is still the matter of what featless legendaries will scale to, there was a discussion about them scaling to the protagonism in the earliest they fight them, but idk if it was accepted

 

[Sniper670]

it's safe to put them at the level of Last Stage Pokémon.

But Legendary Pokémon are meant to be stronger than the average Pokémon so stronger to an unknown degree. I. Dunno

 

[Omegabronic]

it's safe to put them at the level of Last Stage Pokémon.

But Legendary Pokémon are meant to be stronger than the average Pokémon so stronger to an unknown degree. I. Dunno

i mean, not really? a legendary being is only legendary because of the legends it has surrounding it, like, outside of time travel powers celebi has nothing cited about his raw power in any entry

 

[CloverDragon03]

Bump.

Is this accurate?

Tinkaton

Tier: Low 7-B | 7-B | High 7-A Key: Tinkatink | Tinkatuff | Tinkaton Name: Tinkatink, Tinkatuff, Tinkaton Origin: Pokémon Gender: Female Age: Varies Classification: Metalsmith Pokémon, Hammer Pokémon Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Size Manipulation, Weapon Mastery...

vsbattles.fandom.com

If so we use this as a basis for the non legendary Pokémon.

Tinkatuff is 7-A, as Girafarig is considered a middle stage and Farigiraf is stated to be 10x stronger than it

Edit: The 7-B feat comes from a manga feat anyway

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

So uh question. I've been theorizing. The girl who fought Cynthia only used a few Unown. Molly had essentially all of them. Is there a way to quanitfy how much of a gap of what they can do between the few we saw the girl in Journeys use and the literal ant colony Molly had under her disposal. Because honestly I don't know what else to put for this sandbox other than 'Far stronger than [ ] , who did [ ]'

 

[CloverDragon03]

So uh question. I've been theorizing. The girl who fought Cynthia only used a few Unown. Molly had essentially all of them. Is there a way to quanitfy how much of a gap of what they can do between the few we saw the girl in Journeys use and the literal ant colony Molly had under her disposal. Because honestly I don't know what else to put for this sandbox other than 'Far stronger than [ ] , who did [ ]'

I know exactly what Journeys episode you're talking about and this can't work at all. Those Unown fought Ash, Goh, and Cynthia by creating replicas of their Pikachu, Cinderace, and Garchomp. That's not something that really scales to them. Seems more like a Varies tier

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Um.
1: I know they don't automatically have that level as a pure Tier 2 rating just normally. I'm saying that it makes sense for them to at least be capable of doing together what they can do with a few of them, especially when they did that essentially alone. It's a Creation Feat. Especially when the whole point is they get stronger with what they can do by how many are with them, so naturally since Molly had the entire race of Unknown under her beck and call, and the girl only had a few, she should logically be capable of creating at least comparable pokemon to Cynthia's Garchomp, if not create pokemon stronger to an Unknown extent because of how many Unown would be backing up the feat.
2: They also tank a hit from Cynthia's Garchomp BTW. I just rewatched the episode a few days ago. It was the same attack she used to beat the duplicate Garchomp.

 

[Omegabronic]

Tinkatuff is 7-A, as Girafarig is considered a middle stage and Farigiraf is stated to be 10x stronger than it

btw why is jirafarig considered a middle stage? what is the evidence for it?

 

[CloverDragon03]

btw why is jirafarig considered a middle stage? what is the evidence for it?

Pokemon like Girafarig are treated as mid-stages already, for one, and also it is always first found and battled during a time where the player has mid-stages

 

[Omegabronic]

Pokemon like Girafarig are treated as mid-stages already, for one

which is why i asked why in the first place

and also it is always first found and battled during a time where the player has mid-stages

so? pidgeys and spearrows can also be found in late game when the players have fully evolved pokemon, also jangmo-o can only be found when the player has fully evolved pokemon by the time they are close to the end of the game, this doesn't seem to be a good standard

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

this doesn't seem to be a good standard

That would require a different thread altogether. This is the standard currently accepted and applied.

 

[CloverDragon03]

so? pidgeys and spearrows can also be found in late game when the players have fully evolved pokemon

That's not when they're first found though

also jangmo-o can only be found when the player has fully evolved pokemon by the time they are close to the end of the game, this doesn't seem to be a good standard

Pseudo-legendaries are a weird case, because they're meant to be late game units

Also I think Girafarig is treated this way especially now because it was a fully evolved Pokemon for a long time but then got an evolution, making it no longer one, but its status as being one for a while means it's much stronger than first stages

 

[Omegabronic]

Also I think Girafarig is treated this way especially now because it was a fully evolved Pokemon for a long time but then got an evolution, making it no longer one, but its status as being one for a while means it's much stronger than first stages

that feels really weird not gonna lie, for me one could just make girafarig a first stage level pokemon and make second stages 10x first stages via Farigiraf, however this is apparently an topic for another thread, but idk

 

[CloverDragon03]

that feels really weird not gonna lie, for me one could just make girafarig a first stage level pokemon and make second stages 10x first stages via Farigiraf, however this is apparently an topic for another thread, but idk

This would just be incorrect though, as Farigiraf is a final evo

 

[Omegabronic]

This would just be incorrect though, as Farigiraf is a final evo

says who?

 

[CloverDragon03]

says who?

Says the literal evolution chart

 

[Omegabronic]

Says the literal evolution chart

it is the final evolution of girafarig yes, but what is to say that it is on the same level of, say tyranitar? or alakazam? if we consider farigiraf a final evo level just because it is a final evo, then why can't we consider girafarig as a first stage when it is a first stage?