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Goten, Trunks, and Gotenks 2-C Upgrade

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DesuGoten

DesuGoten

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Important: Krillin, despite being implied to be weaker than Goten and Trunks' Super Saiyan forms and potentially their base forms, is listed as 2-C. Therefore, I believe Goten, Trunks, and Gotenks are more than qualified to be upgraded to 2-C.

Base Goten and Trunks could stop Cell Max's attacks with their ki blasts, making him shield his face, showing their blasts were strong enough to affect Cell Max and stop his mouth blast. Goten also pushed him back with a Kamehameha wave.




The boys were able to dodge Cell Max's melee strikes effectively, avoiding multiple swings from his body parts.

Goten and Trunks in base were quick enough to match the speed of Super Saiyan Gohan, Piccolo with Unleashed Potential, Android 18, Krillin, Gamma 1, and Gamma 2. They were all attacking Cell Max with ki blasts and melee attacks.



Base Goten and Trunks were quick enough to dodge Cell Max's Disaster Rays, which were being fired in all directions at a long distance.


When Goten and Trunks accidentally fused into Fat Gotenks, the base failed fusion had enough strength to break Cell Max's skull, cracking his weak point after being launched by Android 18 and Gamma 2. Even Potential Unleashed Piccolo's point-blank energy wave failed to damage him. It's confirmed that failed fusions are weaker than the individual fusees. Base Fat Gotenks had enough strength to headbutt Cell Max in the chin, making him recoil backward in pain from the impact.



Base Fat Gotenks showed enough durability to withstand direct blows from Cell Max's attacks. This suggests that the fusees would also be strong enough to endure similar brutal damage.
Bulma specifically brought Goten and Trunks, along with Android 18 and Krillin, as the "mightiest warriors on Earth," with Krillin mentioned as an add on.

I also want to create keys to differentiate their tiers from the Buu Saga and the Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero film.

Their pages are in desperate need of a proper upgrade due to the movie.

Administrator Agree: DarkDragonMedeus (?) LordGriffin1000
Agree: Ghengiroo115 Greatsage13th LuffyRuffy46307 The_2nd_Existential_Seed Omegas03 Ednaxel2 Fastestthingalive50 Reiner04
Neutral:
Disagree:
 
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So I’m not sure if Gotenks’ feats can be used to upgrade Goten and Trunks since that implies base Goten and Trunks > Power Awakeing Piccolo, which obviously doesn’t make much sense. Plus considering the gag nature of the feat it makes it worse. I also may be wrong, but don’t failed fusions (at least the fat ones) have way higher Durability than AP? I know Fusion Reborn isn’t canon, but iirc both that movie and Super Hero treat fat fusions as being tanks. I think Gotenks taking hits from Cell Max would more just be a feat towards proper Gotenks than for Goten or Trunks.

I do think the upgrade makes sense though, at the very least a possibly or likely rating. While Cell Max scaling is a bit inconsistent we do have Bulma’s jab towards Krillin to consider as well. At the absolute least I feel they should be scaling to ToP Tien and Roshi who are High 4-C.
 
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Ghengiroo115 said:
So I’m not sure if Gotenks’ feats can be used to upgrade Goten and Trunks since that implies base Goten and Trunks > Power Awakeing Piccolo, which obviously doesn’t make much sense. Plus considering the gag nature of the feat it makes it worse. I also may be wrong, but don’t failed fusions (at least the fat ones) have way higher Durability than AP? I know Fusion Reborn isn’t canon, but iirc both that movie and Super Hero treat fat fusions as being tanks. I think Gotenks taking hits from Cell Max would more just be a feat towards proper Gotenks than for Goten or Trunks.

I do think the upgrade makes sense though, at the very least a “possibly” rating. While Cell Max scaling is a bit inconsistent we do have Bulma’s jab towards Krillin to consider as well. At the absolute least they should be scaling to ToP Tien and Roshi who are High 4-C.
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I’ll change my stance on Gotenks’ feats being used for Goten and Trunks. But the “gag” still dealt permanent damage to Cell Max’s weak point, and the action itself was praised. I don’t recall failed fusions being known to having more higher durability than AP. And yeah, that feat was specifically meant for proper Gotenks, since the actual Gotenks doesn’t appear in the movie.

I do believe Base Goten and Trunks at the bare minimum scale in similar levels to Android 18, Krillin, Base Piccolo and Base Gohan given that they were all dealing damage to Cell Max and out pacing him while landing blows. I can’t really put them on the same level as Tien and Roshi from the ToP, since neither of them have provided any feats since the ToP in comparison to current Goten and Trunks. Goten and Trunks’ Super Saiyan forms were already implied to be above them in the anime. I’d scale Goten and Trunks relatively to the rest of the active fighters, putting them at 2-C. If Tien and Roshi were on Goten and Trunks’ level, they would’ve been brought to fight Cell Max alongside the rest of them in my opinion.

I take your current standing is neutral?
 
DesuGoten said:
I’ll change my stance on Gotenks’ feats being used for Goten and Trunks. But the “gag” still dealt permanent damage to Cell Max’s weak point, and the action itself was praised. I don’t recall failed fusions being known to having more higher durability than AP. And yeah, that feat was specifically meant for proper Gotenks, since the actual Gotenks doesn’t appear in the movie.
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I think if fat Gotenks scales above Goten and Trunks then it might be fine (at least the Durability feats), since fusions give so big of a power amp that a weakened fusion could still be pretty significantly above their fusees. But if failed fusions being weaker than their fusees is a significant enough bit of lore (admittedly I don’t know where that statement comes from) then idk.

DesuGoten said:
I do believe Base Goten and Trunks at the bare minimum scale in similar levels to Android 18, Krillin, Base Piccolo and Base Gohan given that they were all dealing damage to Cell Max and out pacing him while landing blows. I can’t really put them on the same level as Tien and Roshi from the ToP, since neither of them have provided any feats since the ToP in comparison to current Goten and Trunks. Goten and Trunks’ Super Saiyan forms were already implied to be above them in the anime. I’d scale Goten and Trunks relatively to the rest of the active fighters, putting them at 2-C. If Tien and Roshi were on Goten and Trunks’ level, they would’ve been brought to fight Cell Max alongside the rest of them in my opinion.

I take your current standing is neutral?
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Nah you can put me down as agree, since I had pretty much the same thoughts as you did here. I mainly just mentioned the other things as suggestions in case anyone disagreed with full 2-C.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
I think if fat Gotenks scales above Goten and Trunks then it might be fine (at least the Durability feats), since fusions give so big of a power amp that a weakened fusion could still be pretty significantly above their fusees. But if failed fusions being weaker than their fusees is a significant enough bit of lore (admittedly I don’t know where that statement comes from) then idk.


Nah you can put me down as agree, since I had pretty much the same thoughts as you did here. I mainly just mentioned the other things as suggestions in case anyone disagreed with full 2-C.
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Thanks, you definitely helped me out there.
 
I'm pretty split because on one hand, I never agreed with upgrading Krillin to 2-C in the first place and feel like keeping up with held back SSB level fighters was outlierish. And his contributions to Cell Max were minimal at best. But I do agree that Trunks, Goten, and especially Gotenks would all be stronger than Krillin.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I'm pretty split because on one hand, I never agreed with upgrading Krillin to 2-C in the first place and feel like keeping up with held back SSB level fighters was outlierish. And his contributions to Cell Max were minimal at best. But I do agree that Trunks, Goten, and especially Gotenks would all be stronger than Krillin.
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So I take it you agree, for the reason specifically of Goten, Trunks, and Gotenks being higher than Krillin? Which I also agree with or neutral do the scaling being iffy?
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I'm pretty split because on one hand, I never agreed with upgrading Krillin to 2-C in the first place and feel like keeping up with held back SSB level fighters was outlierish. And his contributions to Cell Max were minimal at best. But I do agree that Trunks, Goten, and especially Gotenks would all be stronger than Krillin.
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I share the same thoughts
 
Isn't there promotional material implying Goten and Trunks are above the Humans by the ToP

This alone would grant them 2-C, let alone Super Hero which actually implies Goten and Trunks to be above pre Ultimate Piccolo who is solidly 2-C anyways.

(Not that I agree w Krillin being 2-C in the first place, but it is what it is)

Count me on agree.
 
DesuGoten said:
Goten can also be considered as 2-C with GT. But I feel like that's an entirely different discussion.
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He's already accepted for being 2-C since he upscales from baby who is >> Kid Buu who is >>> Buuhan's 2-C feat, no need for a CRT for that.

Also if this gets accepted they should be 6 universes right?
 
A thread about this topic was made in the past, no? (I think it was this one?) I think it was considered an Outlier or something for Goten and Trunks because of the inconsistency of that battle. I wasn't there for that discussion and I really don't have much of an opinion when it comes to this scaling.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
A thread about this topic was made in the past, no? (I think it was this one?) I think it was considered an Outlier or something for Goten and Trunks because of the inconsistency of that battle. I wasn't there for that discussion and I really don't have much of an opinion when it comes to this scaling.
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While reasonable, this was before Krillin got upgraded to 2-C, a revision I never agreed with and most definitely seems outlierish. But I do think Goten, Trunks, and especially Gotenks are easily stronger than Krillin IMO. So I either agree with upgrading them, or downgrading Krillin.

What are your thoughts on that?
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
While reasonable, this was before Krillin got upgraded to 2-C, a revision I never agreed with and most definitely seems outlierish. But I do think Goten, Trunks, and especially Gotenks are easily stronger than Krillin IMO. So I either agree with upgrading them, or downgrading Krillin.

What are your thoughts on that?
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Well, I'm not really up to date on the scaling for Dragon Ball so I can't say much regarding Krillin but I do agree that Goten, Trunks, and Gotanks would be above him so unless that's changed, I really don't have much against scaling them to 2-C.
 
CBslayeR said:
Tbh the DBS Manga also adds evidence for 2-C, they can both fight Gohan and Broly
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I was gonna bring that up, however since it’s a different continuity I didn’t know if “This other version of the story handles the scaling the same way” would fly as an argument.

They did also beat that one Android that iirc was called the strongest Android by Dr. Hedo, but idk if this would count 17, 18 or Seven-Three or if Hedo was just referring to Cell.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
I was gonna bring that up, however since it’s a different continuity I didn’t know if “This other version of the story handles the scaling the same way” would fly as an argument.

They did also beat that one Android that iirc was called the strongest Android by Dr. Hedo, but idk if this would count 17, 18 or Seven-Three or if Hedo was just referring to Cell.
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We'd probably need a separate profile or key since I'd assume we'd be following the anime continuity here, DBS Manga scales to only 3 universes compared to the anime's 6


But then again we give Blessed from the DBS manga to early DB Goku
 
CBslayeR said:
But then again we give Blessed from the DBS manga to early DB Goku
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When I was making the OGDB Toei Profile for Goku this really confused me lmao, and they also include a social influencing ability using scans from the anime, so which is canon??
 
I understand if they just don't feel like separating them is necessary for anything before Z since they are both their own canon continuations
 
Reiner04 said:
Since Krillin already scales, this is particularly a minor revision, so 2 staff votes are enough. Should have been otherway around if Krillin wasn't 2-C.
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Yeah, I wanted to do this. So I'll ask staff permission before I change the page. Everyone so far is an agreement. So I'll wait until I get a direct response before messing with Goten, Trunks, and Gotenks' pages and add in the keys
 
So what are the conclusions here? Should Krillin be downgraded, Goten and Trunks be upgraded, or both in combination?
 
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