Goku vs. Vegeta: The Rematch Redux (6-2-0).

[Mickey1940]

if I can find it...

 

[Eminiteable]

And?

 

[Omegas03]

this fight has been done before, Vegeta won

It got removed due to the statement that had both SSBE and SSBKKx20 equal.

 

[Mickey1940]

welp I can't find it

oh well

 

[ShivaShakti]

Man I wish Vegeta could got atleast one win over Goku qwq

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Vegeta wasn't even a hero until the end of the Buu Saga, arguably, and the literal only time he ever used it was against Cui and a Saibaman, both considerably weaker than him.

Why didn't Vegeta just detonate Goku, Krillin or Gohan? Why not Frieza? Why not the Ginyu Force? the Androids? Cell? Dabura? Buu? Black? Zamasu?

It's clear he can't use it on opponent's close to his power.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Anyways, before the stamina argument comes in hasn't Goku mastered SSBKK? I don't recall ToP Goku getting exhausted by using the Kaioken.

'mastered' Kaio-Ken has never, ever, happened. Goku only used X20 VERY briefly in the Namek saga and only used X20 Blue for a few seconds in-universe, at most.

We even see that SSBKK Goku is stronger than SS Kefla, but quickly runs out of stamina and gets KO'd by Kefla. It's clear that maintaining Kaio-Ken is pretty intensive on Goku in general. This is even arguably depicted when Vegeta uses SSBE constantly on Jiren, but Goku uses Kaio-Ken in short bursts. If Vegeta can use SSBE constantly, whereas Goku needs to use KK in bursts, then Vegeta has the obvious advantage, especially in beam clashes.

To add further, Goku using the Kaio-Ken was considered incredibly risky, against Kefla, yet Vegeta could use SSBE after Final Explosion with zero difficulty.

There is overall zero doubt that Vegeta has a big stamina advantage in this matchup.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Also the stamina argument isn't valid, Goku show no strain while using SSJBKK20 even while almost exhausted during the TOP.

Is that why SSBKK Goku blitzed Kefla, but then got one-shot due to lacking stamina? I lack a Youtube link to the subtitled version, but Beerus even says Goku only had enough stamina for one more attack after a few seconds of Kaio-Ken. Claiming Goku suddenly has no issues maintaining SSBKK, when the Kaio-Ken has always been an incredibly straining technique is absurdity at best.

Again, every episode in the ToP is a singular minute in-universe. Goku mostly used SSBKK in bursts in what could easily be milliseconds upwards to seconds at most. In the few seconds Goku used KK on Kefla, he went from overwhelming her to being KO'd due to the stamina drain.

 

[Mickey1940]

Vegeta wasn't even a hero until the end of the Buu Saga, arguably, and the literal only time he ever used it was against Cui and a Saibaman, both considerably weaker than him.
Why didn't Vegeta just detonate Goku, Krillin or Gohan? Why not Frieza? Why not the Ginyu Force? the Androids? Cell? Dabura? Buu? Black? Zamasu?

It's clear he can't use it on opponent's close to his power.

Vegeta was only 1.2 times stronger than Cui last I remember. According to their power levels, at least.

He didn't use it against the Ginyu Force cause he was too busy getting his ass whupped to do anything else

He didn't use it against the Androids because of cockiness, and the same reason above

He didn't use it agianst Cell or Buu or Zamasu for obvious reasons

He didn't use it against Dabura cause he never fought him, if I remember correctly

For Black, he didn't have much of an excuse NOT to use it, so i do see your point


The way Dirty Fireworks works is making an explosion inside the opponent's body, causing internal damage. There's no reason why it WOULDN'T work on anyone, even if they were as strong or stronger than him. I mean, I don't think anyone's organs will do well after an internal explosion, even if the organs themselves are too strong to break.

 

[Eminiteable]

Maybe having a stronger ki field prevents it

 

[Purgy]

Vegeta would never use that move here anyway, no matter what reasons you want to conjure to explain why it wasn't used.

 

[Dragomer]

Also the stamina argument isn't valid, Goku show no strain while using SSJBKK20 even while almost exhausted during the TOP.

Is that why SSBKK Goku blitzed Kefla, but then got one-shot due to lacking stamina? I lack a Youtube link to the subtitled version, but Beerus even says Goku only had enough stamina for one more attack after a few seconds of Kaio-Ken. Claiming Goku suddenly has no issues maintaining SSBKK, when the Kaio-Ken has always been an incredibly straining technique is absurdity at best.
Again, every episode in the ToP is a singular minute in-universe. Goku mostly used SSBKK in bursts in what could easily be milliseconds upwards to seconds at most. In the few seconds Goku used KK on Kefla, he went from overwhelming her to being KO'd due to the stamina drain.

Goku was litteraly dead tired and Kefla was stronger than all of his form, he was in KK20 at multiple other points with no issue, Kefla could have one shotted him in any of his other form at that point.

Except it wasn't presented as all that draining (SSJ was MORE draining before the Cell training) and SSJBKK was portrayed as straining once, by the next fight, Goku was fine with it.

Kefla kicking his ass so hard he goes UI isn't stamina drain and Vegeta didn't maintain SSJBE any longer than Goku did SSJBKK.

 

[Dragomer]

A 1.2 different in power level is big because power levels aren't linear.

Yeah and having an instant kill would have helped his ass not get whooped.

I'm sure if he had an instant kill attack no one can resist, he would have used it after he got his arm broken.

There is no reason EE or time stop wouldn't work on anyone yet it can be resisted in DB.

Trying to imply dirty fireworks work on anyone other than fodders is ridiculous TBH.

 

[Mickey1940]

again, I still don't think that Dirty Fireworks is going to do jack shit against someone of equal power levels. I mean, if someone created an explosion INSIDE YOU, it wouldn't exactly be a love tap, would it?

 

[Eminiteable]

nah but neither would an intangible instant kill move, but... turns out that shit can be blocked.

 

[Dragomer]

again, I still don't think that Dirty Fireworks is going to do jack shit against someone of equal power levels. I mean, if someone created an explosion INSIDE YOU, it wouldn't exactly be a love tap, would it?

Hit's phasing kill move was blockled by Ki, dirty fire work is using ki to make an explosion in your opponents, why wouldn't ki also be able to block that ? that's clearly what the franchise is going for TBH, the show get really freaking weird if we assume Vegeta just had a 'i win' button this whole time.

 

[Omegas03]

Debating this without voting is bad

 

[Dragomer]

Debating this without voting is bad

I already voted for Goku.

 

[Omegas03]

Bump

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Goku FRA.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Vegeta FRA from what Zamasu and LordTracer said

 

[Lord_JJJ]

Goku FRA

 

[AwkguyDB]

Goku FRA

 

[Omegas03]

Bump

 

[Jimboydejuan12]

welp im going voted Goku Fra.

 

[Dragomer]

Grace i guesse.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Vegeta FRA.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Goku FRA