Goku vs Mori REDUX • (14-8-0) • [Grace]

[DavidTPPM]

ok but at the same time someone's organs wouldn't be several levels of infinity weaker than the outside of their body otherwise any punch to something like the torso would instantly kill them from the force passing through, it's not like all the force just dissipates at the skin (see: liver shots)
the fact that goku can be punched in the stomach or the head by people on his own level would mean that stuff like his brain or his organs (while more vulnerable than the rest of him due to not being designed for taking impacts) aren't several levels of infinity weaker

I mean sure but realistically, your lifting strength also wouldn't be several levels of infinite weaker. Neither would be your speed. And yet we don't assume every uni+ character has immeasurable LS and infinite-immeasurable speed.
So why would we assume it's the case with organs?


Also like I said it's Mori has plenty other win cons so it's not like it matters that much. This is just the simplest one

 

[MichaelCalistro]

I'm voting Goku.

Mori might be more hax than Goku, but literally any attack Goku throw at Mori, will kill Mori, Even if you think Mori can somehow block a 4D attack, all 4D characters doesn't have the same potency remember that, typically varies in a sense that the characters who scales to how amount of universes varies, as there are infinite gap between the amount of universes that a character's potency occupies. Typically scaling to more universes gives more infinite levels of power than the previous one, and Mori here, in this key, has only solar system level of durability. So literally any attack that Goku has, one shot Mori jin,.. And also level for dura neg Ability, you need to provide evidence that Mori can dura neg that type of level, if not, then that's No limit fallacy for you, Plus true ultra instinct and MUI Goku isn't his final arsenal, he still has access to his Giant Avatar form which is superior than both MUI and TUI... The only problem is the hax, however Goku also has arsenal of his own, like Deconstruction, Soul destruction, Existence erasure, etc.. Via Hakai, If Mori doesn't have resistance to this, Goku could swept and win with this, but obviously he wouldn't use this in character every time, tho also.. Granolah using his information analysis can't sense any weakness and no vital points on Goku at his MUI form... Also Goku could use Kiai which he just glares, and creates a damaging shockwaves to his opponent, which would one shot Mori jin.

Also Mori Targeting Goku's organ is a terrible argument, SINCE Ki itself gives defense to the user's physical body, mind, spirit and alike.. One's nature is imbued by ki. it's shown AGAIN and AGAIN in the series, example are Buuhan vs Vegito, He targeted Vegito's inside, trying to blow his organs and all.. But Vegito is so strong that anything Buuhan do doesn't work on him, also Supported by the fact that even user's Ki can protect their clothing as well, if they don't have such control over their Ki, or rather not learned to use it at will, we will have a lot destroyed clothes in the series, the only thing if someone damages Goku with a physical attack, if Goku is off guard and if he immensely reduce his power level..

(5-6-0)​

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

I mean sure but realistically, your lifting strength also wouldn't be several levels of infinite weaker. Neither would be your speed. And yet we don't assume every uni+ character has immeasurable LS and infinite-immeasurable speed.
So why would we assume it's the case with organs?


Also like I said it's Mori has plenty other win cons so it's not like it matters that much. This is just the simplest one

Because we know it explicitly isn't the case with organs.

 

[SeijiSetto]

I mean sure but realistically, your lifting strength also wouldn't be several levels of infinite weaker. Neither would be your speed. And yet we don't assume every uni+ character has immeasurable LS and infinite-immeasurable speed.
So why would we assume it's the case with organs?

those other ones are (admittedly) kinda arbitrarily done just because fiction OFTEN portrays them as being unrelated, you could have 2-C characters who are only like supersonic or MHS (my mind goes to JRPG characters)
i don't think there's any such """"standard"""" implication on the difference between organs and the strength of the body containing them so we should just go with what makes sense, which, as you admitted, is what i said

 

[M2u12]

Can Mori lift the entire Cell Area? Yes, in this match, the Cell Area can't be destroyed, but that doesn't mean it can't be lifted.

So, Mori can lift the entire Cell Area to space to suffocate Goku.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Goku doesn't have 9-C organs.

Never said he does.

This is a false comparison.

It's not even a comparison to begin with, it's at best an example.

Assuming 3D dura neg can harm 4D durability is NLF.

No, assuming 4D durability somehow grants resistance to 3D duraneg is a baseless assumption or asserting baseless limits.

It's equally a non sequitor as saying "I have 4D AP so I also have 4D LS".

Goku starting in MUI doesn't affect my arguement. The form itself would still give him that level of reaction time, which far eclipses 250k. That comes with the form. The enchanced perceptions came before and existed the Super Saiyan multipliers.

That's not how speed equalization works. Yeah he has that level of reaction time as his base reaction speed.

Just because you equalized speed doesn't mean MUI Goku isn't 25.6 billion times stronger or faster than base Goku,

He is. Except Mori is equalized to his MUI speed level, not his base level. So both Mori and Goku are 25.6 billion times superior to base Goku, Mori just goes (far more than) 250,000x higher than this starting point.

that just means his speed in MUI has been equalized to Mori's.

No, it means Moris speed was equalized to his.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I don't think Mori Jin's dura neg is going to work here due to Goku's feats against Granolah as well as things like Broly surviving 4D Ki explosions inside of his body from Gogeta (I know that isn't listed on the profile but seriously, I'm not going to just ignore that) and even the concept of Mori Jin's dura neg working on someone with 4D power when he's 3D is just silly. Goku resists Time Stop. Vibration hax seems meh given Goku produced universe destroying shockwaves as well as Goku's aura alone being capable of destroying Mori and probably disrupting his vibrations. And absorption is also not really useful here when Goku is familiar with opponents using it, can vaporise with Ki and absorbing a 4D being with 3D power would be NLF unless Mori Jin has feats of absorbing characters as strong as Goku. Same deal with LS, doesn't matter if Goku just lightly explodes his Ki.

That's just my take. Not gonna argue it further. I'm voting Goku FRA.

 

[DavidTPPM]

i don't think there's any such """"standard"""" implication on the difference between organs and the strength of the body containing them so we should just go with what makes sense, which, as you admitted, is what i said

I mean, the sheer existence of the "internal attacks" type durability negation seems to prove there is such a standard. Because this doesn't apply to just levels of infinity but generally, using your argument, a character with 5-B durability should have organs in a similar range and if not any gut punch of that level would pulverize them inside of him.

And yet we consider internal attacks as a form of durability negation. If what you're saying was true, it should be considered at best a weird form of damage amplification as it wouldn't actually bypass durability but just enhance the damage you do.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Never said he does.

It's not even a comparison to begin with, it's at best an example.

No, assuming 4D durability somehow grants resistance to 3D duraneg is a baseless assumption or asserting baseless limits.

It's equally a non sequitor as saying "I have 4D AP so I also have 4D LS".

That's not how speed equalization works. Yeah he has that level of reaction time as his base reaction speed.

He is. Except Mori is equalized to his MUI speed level, not his base level. So both Mori and Goku are 25.6 billion times superior to base Goku, Mori just goes (far more than) 250,000x higher than this starting point.

No, it means Moris speed was equalized to his.

No dude, assuming 3D dura neg can affect 4D dura is NLF. You are the one making the baseless asssertion, just going 'no you' isn't an arguement, it's dishonest, so is being weasely after your comaprisons got shot down and they magically became examples.

Reaction speed and movement speed are two different things. Travel vs combat, etc, etc, the post said nothing about equalized reactions.

So, Goku, being in MUI, would still have perceptions 25.6 billions times his base self, because that enchanced perception literally comes with the form.

I never said Mori was equalized to Goku's base level, I said him being equalized to MUI Goku doesnt mean Goku doesn't upscale his own fcking feats lmfao.

 

[MichaelCalistro]

I don't think Mori Jin's dura neg is going to work here due to Goku's feats against Granolah as well as things like Broly surviving 4D Ki explosions inside of his body from Gogeta (I know that isn't listed on the profile but seriously, I'm not going to just ignore that) and even the concept of Mori Jin's dura neg working on someone with 4D power when he's 3D is just silly. Goku resists Time Stop. Vibration hax seems meh given Goku produced universe destroying shockwaves as well as Goku's aura alone being capable of destroying Mori and probably disrupting his vibrations. And absorption is also not really useful here when Goku is familiar with opponents using it, can vaporise with Ki and absorbing a 4D being with 3D power would be NLF unless Mori Jin has feats of absorbing characters as strong as Goku. Same deal with LS, doesn't matter if Goku just lightly explodes his Ki.

That's just my take. Not gonna argue it further. I'm voting Goku FRA.

(6-6-0)​

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

I mean, the sheer existence of the "internal attacks" type durability negation seems to prove there is such a standard. Because this doesn't apply to just levels of infinity but generally, using your argument, a character with 5-B durability should have organs in a similar range and if not any gut punch of that level would pulverize them inside of him.

And yet we consider internal attacks as a form of durability negation. If what you're saying was true, it should be considered at best a weird form of damage amplification as it wouldn't actually bypass durability but just enhance the damage you do.

This is a moot point. Goku resists internal damage scaling to Broly.

 

[DavidTPPM]

No dude, assuming 3D dura neg can affect 4D dura is NLF.

Then you don't know what NLF is.

You are the one making the baseless asssertion, just going 'no you' isn't an arguement, it's dishonest, so is being weasely after your comaprisons got shot down and they magically became examples.

What baseless assertions did I make? You're the one claiming Goku has resistance to durability negation type which is nowhere in his profile. The only "weasely and dishonest" thing here is trying to make a claim with no evidence and then slap NLF on anyone that calls you out.

By your logic durability negation wouldn't even exist as a concept.

Reaction speed and movement speed are two different things. Travel vs combat, etc, etc, the post said nothing about equalized reactions.

So, Goku, being in MUI, would still have perceptions 25.6 billions times his base self, because that enchanced perception literally comes with the form.

Again I never denied it, you just don't understand speed equalization.
Mori isn't equalized to base Goku but to MUI Goku so the difference between base Goku and MUI Goku is irrelevant

I never said Mori was equalized to his base level, I said him being equalized to MUI Goku doesnt mean Goku doesnt upscale his own fcking feats lmfao

I never said Goku doesn't upscale from his own feats. I said base Goku is irrelevant to this equation.

Forget base Goku. He doesn't matter here. He's not in the match up and the only way he could become relevant is if MUI ran out of juice. What matters isn't MUI Goku reactions vs base Goku reactions, but MUI Gokus physical speed vs MUI Gokus reaction speed.

 

[DavidTPPM]

This is a moot point. Goku resists internal damage scaling to Broly.

Not in the profile, not relevant.

And idk why do you keep ignoring every other win con I mentioned several times already.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Then you don't know what NLF is.

What baseless assertions did I make? You're the one claiming Goku has resistance to durability negation type which is nowhere in his profile. The only "weasely and dishonest" thing here is trying to make a claim with no evidence and then slap NLF on anyone that calls you out.

By your logic durability negation wouldn't even exist as a concept.

Again I never denied it, you just don't understand speed equalization.
Mori isn't equalized to base Goku but to MUI Goku so the difference between base Goku and MUI Goku is irrelevant

I never said Goku doesn't upscale from his own feats. I said base Goku is irrelevant to this equation.

Forget base Goku. He doesn't matter here. He's not in the match up and the only way he could become relevant is if MUI ran out of juice. What matters isn't MUI Goku reactions vs base Goku reactions, but MUI Gokus physical speed vs MUI Gokus reaction speed.

'You don't know what NLF is'

doesnt include definition or elaborate

Stunning argument. Still haven't proved why 3D dura neg can affect 4D dura.

you made the arguement, you got called out, and now your projecting and going 'nuh uh' instead of actually backing up your claim.

Goku scales to people who has resist to internal damage, you've been told three times now and ignored it. Thats not on me.

'The difference between Base Goku and MUI Goku is irrelevant because speed is equalized'

Uh. No.

MUI Goku is still stronger than base Goku. He still upscales base Goku. Base Goku is still very much relevant here. I dont even think you understand my arguement.

MUI Goku is being used. His speed is equalized to Mori's. This doesn't stop MUI Goku from up scaling from his base form, that just means his speed is equalzed to Mori's. Not any of his other stats, which still upscale from base Goku, including perceptions.

This is an absolutely ridiculous arguement

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Not in the profile, not relevant.

And idk why do you keep ignoring every other win con I mentioned several times already.

Not how that works. Something can yet to be added, but Broly LN is accepted as canon to anime and manga. This is irrelevant atp, you've been told several times it is a thing.

I'm not ignoring them, I just think Goku's are more simple and reliable. Which is why I, you know, voted Goku.

(The ki manip page includes ki being used to damage internals, and the fcking example is of a character surviving said internal damage)

 

[DavidTPPM]

'You don't know what NLF is'

doesnt include definition or elaborate

You claimed it's NLF. You have to explain why that fallacy is true. Simply name dropping a fallacy is equal to me saying "Mori wins because you're wrong"

Stunning argument. Still haven't proved why 3D dura neg can affect 4D dura.

See that's called a "loaded question fallacy". You're writing the question with an underlying claim. Like how asking someone "why did you rob my house" inherently implies you robbed my house, your sentence implies high (4D) durability somehow negates durability negation.

That's a claim you have to prove first. I don't have to prove why your claim that high durability negates duraneg is wrong until you prove it's right first.

you made the arguement, you got called out, and now your projecting and going 'nuh uh' instead of actually backing up your claim.

I made the claim Mori will negate Gokus durability with durability negating hax which I provided evidence for.

You then claimed Gokus high durability somehow negates durability negation. That's your claim which you have to prove.

Goku scales to people who has resist to internal damage, you've been told three times now and ignored it. Thats not on me.

Scaling to people with a certain resistance doesn't automatically grant you said resistance.

'The difference between Base Goku and MUI Goku is irrelevant because speed is equalized'

Uh. No.

MUI Goku is still stronger than base Goku. He still upscales base Goku. Base Goku is still very much relevant here. I dont even think you understand my arguement.

MUI Goku is being used. His speed is equalized to Mori's. This doesn't stop MUI Goku from up scaling from his base form,

Oh my god for the last time
I UNDERSTAND THAT GOKU SCALES BAJILLION TIMES ABOVE HIS BASE. The reason it's irrelevant is that SO DOES MORI. THEY ARE EQUALLY ABOVE BASE GOKU.

The difference between base and MUI doesn't matter because Mori is as much above base Goku as MUI is.

that just means his speed is equalzed to Mori's.

NO it doesn't, Moris speed is equalized to Gokus, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. I already told you this multiple times.

Not any of his other stats, which still upscale from base Goku, including perceptions.

Please just read the speed equalization section here, I beg you…

• The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight, etc.
  • Speed Amplification techniques are assumed to grant the same percentile of increase to a character's equalized speeds, as they would to their usual speeds.

Not how that works. Something can yet to be added, but Broly LN is accepted as canon to anime and manga. This is irrelevant atp, you've been told several times it is a thing.

I don’t care about Broly in his LN. I care about Goku in the manga.

I'm not ignoring them, I just think Goku's are more simple and reliable. Which is why I, you know, voted Goku.

Saying that isn't really an argument against them.

(The ki manip page includes ki being used to damage internals, and the fcking example is of a character surviving said internal damage)

Can you point me towards that section because I tried ctrl F and it didn't show anything for words "organs", "durability negation" or "internal"

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

You claimed it's NLF. You have to explain why that fallacy is true. Simply name dropping a fallacy is equal to me saying "Mori wins because you're wrong"

See that's called a "loaded question fallacy". You're writing the question with an underlying claim. Like how asking someone "why did you rob my house" inherently implies you robbed my house, your sentence implies high (4D) durability somehow negates durability negation.

That's a claim you have to prove first. I don't have to prove why your claim that high durability negates duraneg is wrong until you prove it's right first.

I made the claim Mori will negate Gokus durability with durability negating hax which I provided evidence for.

You then claimed Gokus high durability somehow negates durability negation. That's your claim which you have to prove.

Scaling to people with a certain resistance doesn't automatically grant you said resistance.

Oh my god for the last time
I UNDERSTAND THAT GOKU SCALES BAJILLION TIMES ABOVE HIS BASE. The reason it's irrelevant is that SO DOES MORI. THEY ARE EQUALLY ABOVE BASE GOKU.

The difference between base and MUI doesn't matter because Mori is as much above base Goku as MUI is.

NO it doesn't, Moris speed is equalized to Gokus, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. I already told you this multiple times.

Please just read the speed equalization section here, I beg you…


I don’t care about Broly in his LN. I care about Goku in the manga.

Saying that isn't really an argument against them.

Can you point me towards that section because I tried ctrl F and it didn't show anything for words "organs", "durability negation" or "internal"

None of this is providing evidence for 3D dura neg working on 4D dura. This is more mental gymnastics and yap.

Why is Mori's dura neg potent enough to bypass the dura of someone infinitely more durable? That's the evidence you need to provide, which you haven't, and you've spent your last few posts dancing around twisting yourself into knots to somehow shift the burden of proof onto me.

It's not on me. It's on you.

I know for a fact that dura neg via internal damage is a type of dura neg that can only circumvent durability to a limit extent, it's on the ******* durability neg page.

So you are still doing everything you can to provide evidence for your claim.

'Oh my god for the last time
I UNDERSTAND THAT GOKU SCALES BAJILLION TIMES ABOVE HIS BASE. The reason it's irrelevant is that SO DOES MORI. THEY ARE EQUALLY ABOVE BASE GOKU.'

Irrelevant. Mori doesn't have MUI, which is the special technique that grants Goku those perceptions.

Who is lowered or raised to who is irrelevant. You are still misunderstanding the argument, despite you yelling that you do.

The enchanced perceptions comes from the technique UI, which manifests as a transformation but those enchanced perceptions can exist without it. It isn't affect by speed equalization because it's a technique or skill that can manifest itself regardless of a transformation.

So even bare minimum, it can give base Goku 50x his perception that's already good enough to keep track of SSG (160k) tier Hit.

So MUI would still give Goku perceptions far above 250k.

Broly LN is accepted as supplemental material for the movie, and is considered canon for both anime and manga. It would apply here.

We have no reason to assume only Broly can resist internal damage. It's the same as scaling people to Gotenks screaming his way out of the RoST, they didn't perform it but they scale above in AP, or in this case, dura.

The example for ki being used for internal damage is under explosion manip.

 

[SeijiSetto]

I mean, the sheer existence of the "internal attacks" type durability negation seems to prove there is such a standard. Because this doesn't apply to just levels of infinity but generally, using your argument, a character with 5-B durability should have organs in a similar range and if not any gut punch of that level would pulverize them inside of him.

And yet we consider internal attacks as a form of durability negation. If what you're saying was true, it should be considered at best a weird form of damage amplification as it wouldn't actually bypass durability but just enhance the damage you do.

it's LIMITED durability negation, because you're literally just bypassing their tougher outsides to hit their weaker organs.
even the page clarifies that it's considered dura neg because those parts are "easier to injure or otherwise damage", it's not something that will work regardless of the gap in stats.
A 9-B with internal attack dura neg isn't scratching a 5-B because the gap in stats is simply too big, even his weaker organs would be far stronger than the person trying to attack them and so nothing happens

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

I've said my piece atp, so I'll leave others to vote. I dont see any productive coming out of continuing to respond.

 

[DavidTPPM]

it's LIMITED durability negation, because you're literally just bypassing their tougher outsides to hit their weaker organs.

Nah

even the page clarifies that it's considered dura neg because those parts are "easier to injure or otherwise damage", it's not something that will work regardless of the gap in stats.
A 9-B with internal attack dura neg isn't scratching a 5-B because the gap in stats is simply too big, even his weaker organs would be far stronger than the person trying to attack them and so nothing happens

I actually tried researching it. By standard we assume organs have human level durability and is considered hax which work regardless of tier.

 

[DavidTPPM]

None of this is providing evidence for 3D dura neg working on 4D dura. This is more mental gymnastics and yap.

That's an ad hominem, not argument.

Why is Mori's dura neg potent enough to bypass the dura of someone infinitely more durable?

The purpose of durability negation is to negate/bypass durability. Goku's durability doesn't matter because it's literally being negated/bypassed.
It's like asking what proves I'm strong enough to walk around a super durable wall.

That's the evidence you need to provide, which you haven't, and you've spent your last few posts dancing around twisting yourself into knots to somehow shift the burden of proof onto me.

I'm really tired of talking to you. Like I gave you this whole in depth explanation of why you have to prove your claims and you just go "nah debunk them first".

I know for a fact that dura neg via internal damage is a type of dura neg that can only circumvent durability to a limit extent, it's on the ******* durability neg page.

It's not, stop lying when I literally linked the page here.

'Oh my god for the last time
I UNDERSTAND THAT GOKU SCALES BAJILLION TIMES ABOVE HIS BASE. The reason it's irrelevant is that SO DOES MORI. THEY ARE EQUALLY ABOVE BASE GOKU.'

Irrelevant. Mori doesn't have MUI, which is the special technique that grants Goku those perceptions.

What? Mori doesn't need MUI to match MUIs speed he's literally equalized to that level. Mori isn't equalized to base Gokus perception speed but MUI Gokus physical speed.

Who is lowered or raised to who is irrelevant.

It's not. It decides many things.

You are still misunderstanding the argument, despite you yelling that you do.

The enchanced perceptions comes from the technique UI, which manifests as a transformation but those enchanced perceptions can exist without it. It isn't affect by speed equalization because it's a technique or skill that can manifest itself regardless of a transformation.

I'll say this one last time.
The difference between base Gokus and MUIs reaction speed does NOT matter.

Moris base speed here is as fast as MUI Goku. So the difference between Moris speed and Gokus reaction speed isn't the same as base Goku vs MUI Goku, but as MUI Gokus speed and MUI Gokus reactions.

So MUI would still give Goku perceptions far above 250k.

That's sweet and all, but giving Goku a speed boost over his base is irrelevant when Mori isn't equalized to base Goku.

MUI Gokus perception can be 96 centillion times faster than base Goku and it won't change a thing because Mori isn't as fast as base Goku so the difference between Moris speed and Gokus perception wouldn't be the same.

So for the last time. What decides Gokus reaction speed here is
MUI Gokus reaction speed vs MUI Gokus combat speed
NOT
MUI Gokus reaction speed vs other forms of Gokus reaction speed

Gokus physical and combat speed are 110 quadrillion c.
Mori will be reduced to 110 quadrillion c as well, and a 250,000x speed amp will get him to 27 sextillion c.

So Goku needs to have 27 sextillion c reactions in MUI despite only having 110 quadrillion c speed. His base doesn't matter, he needs to scale above his MUI.

We have no reason to assume only Broly can resist internal damage.

Then you don't even have the unaccepted argument…?

The example for ki being used for internal damage is under explosion manip.

I don’t see anything like that

Explosion Manipulation: Kiais can directly make explosions

 

[Ednaxel2]

Going with Goku for reasons Cryo brought up

 

[MichaelCalistro]

Going with Goku for reasons Cryo brought up

(7-6-0)​

 

[SeijiSetto]

By standard we assume organs have human level durability

the post you quoted:

Yes or at least it treats them as notably inferior to one's regular durability. Which is why the move is explicitly treated as negating durability.

For OPM Garou word for word states that it's not possible to make your organs stronger. Meaning in the OPM universe someone like Flashy Flash would only have tier 10 internal organs with Tier 6 muscles and bones. Saitama is special for having durable organs.

qawsedf himself isn't even certain considering he gives 2 different answers and the latter half of his post clarifies he's just talking about OPM. the other answer he gives is what i've been saying - organs would obviously be weaker than parts of the body designed to withstand force but not to the point that a tier 2's organs can be harmed by someone who isn't tier 2, there's an infinite gap there.

hax which work regardless of tier.

real hax does work regardless of tier, yes, but i don't see why this is relevant.
being able to attack someone's insides is just like... a particular way of applying regular-ass AP. like the difference between a punch and a sword. a 5-B using a sword against another equal character will cut them up (compared to their punches), but that same sword won't let them harm a Low 2-C because the gap is infinite.
and of course, if your AP isn't sufficient to harm the other person regardless, hitting their insides won't make a difference, it's not dealing any damage.

mori probably does have hax that could win him the match (i haven't looked at his profile in a while though and i'm not casting any votes) but attacks that do nothing except target the opponent's internals are not hax, they could be tanked by anyone sufficiently stronger than you.

 

[Success0906]

I think this is just a stomp after looking through the arguments.

 

[SeijiSetto]

wait
i can't see resistance to mind manip anywhere on goku's profile
as early as his Post-Mori Jung key, Mori has a passive aura that makes people want to give up and submit to him
he can also strike goku with geundoowun (wouldn't do any damage) and spawn a black hole ON him
what does he have as answers to those

 

[MichaelCalistro]

wait
i can't see resistance to mind manip anywhere on goku's profile
as early as his Post-Mori Jung key, Mori has a passive aura that makes people want to give up and submit to him
he can also strike goku with geundoowun (wouldn't do any damage) and spawn a black hole ON him
what does he have as answers to those

Does this count?

 

[DavidTPPM]

the post you quoted:

qawsedf himself isn't even certain considering he gives 2 different answers and the latter half of his post clarifies he's just talking about OPM. the other answer he gives is what i've been saying - organs would obviously be weaker than parts of the body designed to withstand force but not to the point that a tier 2's organs can be harmed by someone who isn't tier 2, there's an infinite gap there.

He says yes to considering organs as human level unless proven otherwise. Saying "or at least treats them as notably inferior" doesn't change much because we frankly can't quantify what "notably inferior" means.

So human level is the most we can objectively say they scale to. Yeah they might be stronger but we don't know and can't prove that.

wait
i can't see resistance to mind manip anywhere on goku's profile

Yes that was mentioned and quickly ignored by the Goku crowd.

he can also strike goku with geundoowun (wouldn't do any damage) and spawn a black hole ON him

I also mentioned that in the previous comments, alongside stuff like absorption, crushing, shadow paralysis, and other hax that got conveniently ignored by 7 people as of now.

 

[Ebihara]

Goku FRA

 

[DavidTPPM]

Does this count?

I'm no dragon ball fan but I'm pretty sure that's Vegeta.
That hairline is impossible to not recognize

 

[MichaelCalistro]

Goku FRA

(8-6-0)​

 

[TheGreatBanana]

Goku fra.
Also, would mori even touch goku? Considering that he does have a passive ish aura that blocks weaker attacks, and even if he does, he still can use his aura to block weaker attacks.

 

[MichaelCalistro]

Goku fra.
Also, would mori even touch goku? Considering that he does have a passive ish aura that blocks weaker attacks, and even if he does, he still can use his aura to block weaker attacks.

(9-6-0)​

Grace! Now for time and peace with God.

 

[SeijiSetto]

He says yes to considering organs as human level unless proven otherwise. Saying "or at least treats them as notably inferior" doesn't change much because we frankly can't quantify what "notably inferior" means.

So human level is the most we can objectively say they scale to. Yeah they might be stronger but we don't know and can't prove that.

i disagree, however, we both agree mori has far more viable wincons and i don't think we're gonna convince each other so i think we'll just have to agree to disagree

Yes that was mentioned and quickly ignored by the Goku crowd.

I also mentioned that in the previous comments, alongside stuff like absorption, crushing, shadow paralysis, and other hax that got conveniently ignored by 7 people as of now.

crushing won't damage him (AP too low) but will pin him (weight too high), which could allow for other shit
he resists paralysis in his first key so that won't work
he doesn't resist absorption, so that works

Goku fra.
Also, would mori even touch goku? Considering that he does have a passive ish aura that blocks weaker attacks, and even if he does, he still can use his aura to block weaker attacks.

scans?

Does this count?

that's vegeta
second of all, that's vegeta
third of all, idk why goku would get the resistance too. it's not on his profile so you'd need to make a CRT to put it on there.

hey can someone arguing for Goku explain why he doesn't just instantly get mogged by Mori's passive mind manip aura
there are 9 votes for him but i don't see how he gets around that, so Mori should instantly win

 

[BoastJr]

Technically Vegeta and Goku are "similar" enough to the point that they could scale off eachother's feat for the most part (Before Goku gained MUI and Vegeta gained UEG and they went different paths)

However if it isn't accepted on the profile then I do not see why we should use feats that aren't listed. Would need a CRT first to get it approved.

The Passive Aura thing is something Cell (can't recall if it was filler or not but probably filler) and Jiren (in the anime) did. They basically mimicked Gojo's infinity without doing anything but standing still (The Context).

But again, I do not know if we accept that in their profile for usage in Vs matches

 

[DavidTPPM]

crushing won't damage him (AP too low) but will pin him (weight too high), which could allow for other shit

Actually that kinda depends. LS is in a weird place from what I've seen. Ripping things apart and crushing things are based on and give mainly LS so surviving them should also be mainly based around LS rather than AP.

Although there isn't a standard about that so it doesn't matter. It'd still be funny if all Mori did was yank Goku across the universe over and over again

he resists paralysis in his first key so that won't work

There different kinds of paralysis so I wasn't 100% sure

that's vegeta
second of all, that's vegeta
third of all,

you wanna be vegeta but you can't be vegeta because that is vegeta

 

[DavidTPPM]

Also, would mori even touch goku?

Only with consent!

Considering that he does have a passive ish aura that blocks weaker attacks, and even if he does, he still can use his aura to block weaker attacks.

From what I've seen Goku needs to essentially activate the aura. And even then it wouldn't stop things like black holes and absorption.

 

[SeijiSetto]

i'm voting for Mori if it wasn't clear
i think his passive mind manip mogs, and even discounting that he's more skilled and has multiple haxes that can ignore the AP gap like absorption and black holes which he can do on a whim

no more grace lol

 

[Killerdrone123]

Doesn't super natural will power resist mind manipulation given how mori mind manipulation works I think it can be overcomed by it

Not to mention Vegeta literally resisted mind manipulation with pure willpower so saying Goku would be able to do same isn't a big reach

Anyway voting Goku fra based on cryo point

 

[SeijiSetto]

Doesn't super natural will power resist mind manipulation given how mori mind manipulation works I think it can be overcomed by it

not necessarily
if supernatural willpower has been SHOWN to be able to resist it then sure, otherwise you don't assume it

Not to mention Vegeta literally resisted mind manipulation with pure willpower so saying Goku would be able to do same isn't a big reach

go get it on his profile as a resistance first before trying to use it as an argument