Goku vs Mori REDUX • (14-9-0) • [Winner: GOATKU]

[DavidTPPM]

Another problem that i realized is unless mori has a higher speed value outside of speed equal with all his amps this match can't be added at all if they're a significant factor to his win.

Manga Goku scales below 110 quadrillion c, Mori massively upscales above 197 octillion c.

Those are lesser from of durability negation the durability of his innerds are still relative if vastly below his body. Sense he's 2-C vs 3-B and is infinitely stronger it dosen't apply

Is there any evidence of that? I don't think we assume your organs are relative to your body unless it's specified in some way. I mean by that logic we should also assume your LS should be relative and yet Goku is several infinities above baseline 2-C with the very finite class M LS

 

[DavidTPPM]

That only applies if one of those things could give them a win.

Which they could. Goku has the range and power to just nuke Mori, it's just not in-character for him to blast a universe/multiverse away and it's in-character for Mori to get rid of dangerous opponents as quickly as possible.

No matter what this is going to end with there is no way for this character to win the other wins 100% of the time aka a stomp

That kinda makes it sound like every fight ever will either end as inconclusive or a stomp.

I mean, I agree a match up between weaker keys that are closer in overall hax and AP would be far better but idk about calling it a stomp

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Is there any evidence of that? I don't think we assume your organs are relative to your body unless it's specified in some way. I mean by that logic we should also assume your LS should be relative and yet Goku is several infinities above baseline 2-C with the very finite class M LS

Well I think LS should work that way but
Yes. Goku's orgins have been hit by attacks before. And sense they didn't immediately evaporate into nothingness, they have durability somewhat relative to his body (besides that just being how this works but your apprently not going to take my word on that)

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Which they could. Goku has the range and power to just nuke Mori, it's just not in-character for him to blast a universe/multiverse away and it's in-character for Mori to get rid of dangerous opponents as quickly as possible.

If that is what would always happen yes it's a stomp.

Usually a character has a variety of starters and time to break out there finishing move. Allowing "most fights" not to be inconclusive or stomps. This one is just a stomp

 

[DavidTPPM]

Well I think LS should work that way

Well then Goku wouldn't be 2-C but like 8-B

Yes. Goku's orgins have been hit by attacks before. And sense they didn't immediately evaporate into nothingness, they have durability somewhat relative to his body

Were those internal attacks relative to his AP/durability? Because if so that sounds like he should have resistance to this type of durability negation which he doesn't have in his profile.

(besides that just being how this works but your apprently not going to take my word on that)

Well if you show me something proving so I wouldn't have anything against the idea. But you have to understand that "trust me bro frfr" doesn't sound super convincing by itself

 

[MichaelCalistro]

.......

 

[MichaelCalistro]

......

 

[DavidTPPM]

.......

......

Please don't spam the thread like this.
In case of inactivity you can bump it after 8 hours since the last comment, but you shouldn't do so before that

 

[Ryu-Strongest-Fighter-in-Universe]

Voting Goku

 

[MichaelCalistro]

Voting Goku

(1-3-0)​

 

[MichaelCalistro]

Please don't spam the thread like this.
In case of inactivity you can bump it after 8 hours since the last comment, but you shouldn't do so before that

I do apologize for the spamming.

 

[M2u12]

I think I'll vote Mori for now, unless Goku supporter arguments change my mind.

 

[MichaelCalistro]

I think I'll vote Mori for now, unless Goku supporter arguments change my mind.

(1-4-0)​

 

[MichaelCalistro]

it's not your fault, and as I said, don't take what I said seriously, it was just a joke.

God gracious, this thread has reached the third page, so I don't want you to feel bad, you just had a poor choice of characters in your thread.

 

[M2u12]

God gracious, this thread has reached the third page, so I don't want you to feel bad,

I'm not serious about it at all lol, I find it amusing. No need to overthink it.

you just had a poor choice of characters in your thread.

"poor choice of characters" ? characters I choose to make matchup are fair and debatable, so how is it a poor choice of characters?

 

[TauanVictor]

Goku FRA

 

[MichaelCalistro]

Goku FRA

(2-4-0)​

 

[MichaelCalistro]

.......

 

[Shar122]

Ahh yes, putting Goku against a haxlord
What a convenient match..

 

[MichaelCalistro]

Ahh yes, putting Goku against a haxlord
What a convenient match..

It's a quite bit of tragic to say to the least that Dragon Ball characters aren't as haxed as The God of High School characters are. Goku is haxed, but Mori is just a bit more haxed.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Goku FRA

Which reasons above?

 

[MichaelCalistro]

......

 

[Yeolban]

I don't see how Goku gets past Mori's insane hax. Voting for Mori.

 

[MichaelCalistro]

I don't see how Goku gets past Mori's insane hax. Voting for Mori.

(2-5-0)​

 

[Success0906]

Voting Mori if this doesn't end up in a stomp. But don't take my vote yet, Goku's supporters still have yet to show arguments against Mori's wincon. So if they are not able to bring their arguments by the time this thread has just enough votes, you can count me in as well.

Oh, I vote for Mori due to David and Mu2u12's reasons above.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

This thread reminded me we need to update Super manga Goku's BIQ, because his profile is outdated as hell on that front.

 

[ChoursDropoff]

I vote Goku

Goku also has resistance to information analysis just putting that out there.

 

[Killerdrone123]

Which form of Goku is being used is it base

 

[DavidTPPM]

I vote Goku

You have to actually give reasons for your vote.

Goku also has resistance to information analysis just putting that out there.

Gokus info analysis resistance seems to be based around not having weak points which is something fodders in early GoH already had so that won't stop Mori from realizing how strong Goku is. And even if it did, that makes little to no difference as Moris durability negation became a natural part of his martial arts so it's not like Mori wouldn't use them right away.

Which form of Goku is being used is it base

SBA state that Goku starts in his strongest form

 

[Mickey1940]

Yet a tier 6 character (people of this level can straight up KO you with their fear aura) specifically made the distinction between this sense of "awe" and fear.

"Fear? Terror? No, it's a different… more mixed feeling"

But has this been used on someone infinitely more powerful than the user tho? Cuz that's exactly what Goku is

That's them (plus the unconventional martial arts above)

Basically in GoH, the full limit of a characters power is 2500000x above what they normally display. Most people can only access this 250,000x greater power by using a limit removal technique called "jeahbongchim".

But this version of Mori has mastered control over his body to such an extent he can bring out it's full power without the need to use the limit removal.

So Mori has

a 2500000x boost in speed

yeah no that has to be restricted, like @CosmoDark38 said, if speed is the major contributing factor to why he wins, the match can't be added

In this case, it is indeed the main reason he wins. Without the speed amps, Goku just glares at him funny and Mori dies. Yes, Mori has hax, but Goku just hitting him works faster than any of it

 

[DavidTPPM]

But has this been used on someone infinitely more powerful than the user tho? Cuz that's exactly what Goku is

No but there's nothing implying the hax is restricted by power level.

Now of course the speed at which you break down is kinda based on willpower I'd say given that we see characters with no willpower instantly submit and characters with strong willpower take a second to do so, but that just prolongs the inevitable.

So Mori has

a 2500000x boost in speed

yeah no that has to be restricted, like @CosmoDark38 said, if speed is the major contributing factor to why he wins, the match can't be added

Only if the character is slower but wins through speed advantage gained by speed equalization. Mori is faster (massively above 197 octillion c vs 282 quadrillion c) so that rule doesn't make a difference here.

In this case, it is indeed the main reason he wins. Without the speed amps, Goku just glares at him funny and Mori dies. Yes, Mori has hax, but Goku just hitting him works faster than any of it

Moris main dura neg hax are activated through as little as a single kick so given Mori has a plethora of speed amps, I doubt Goku hitting Mori is faster than Mori hitting Goku.

 

[M2u12]

But has this been used on someone infinitely more powerful than the user tho? Cuz that's exactly what Goku is

No, it's mind hax. Why does Mind Manipulation have to take physical power into account?

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

I vote Goku. I don't buy dura neg via internal working on someone with several levels of infinity greater dura. UI Goku should have better reactions than base U6 Goku, who could keep track of SSG tier Hit. Goku hardens his body to tank whatever hit then glares Mori to death.

 

[MichaelCalistro]

Voting Mori if this doesn't end up in a stomp. But don't take my vote yet, Goku's supporters still have yet to show arguments against Mori's wincon. So if they are not able to bring their arguments by the time this thread has just enough votes, you can count me in as well.

Oh, I vote for Mori due to David and Mu2u12's reasons above.

I vote Goku

Goku also has resistance to information analysis just putting that out there.

I vote Goku. I don't buy dura neg via internal working on someone with several levels of infinity greater dura. UI Goku should have better reactions than base U6 Goku, who could keep track of SSG tier Hit. Goku hardens his body to tank whatever hit then glares Mori to death.

(4-6-0)​

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

To elucidate on reaction, base Goku tapping into UI had better perceptions than SSJ (50x) Vegeta.

Vegeta states that tapping into UI gets sharper when using Super Saiyan forms, and Super Saiyan forms already increases senses, and the full MUI is a blue fusion level increase, SSB x SSB, 8 mil x 8 mil, or 25.6 billion times multiplier to all stats.

Goku only tapping into UI in conjunction with just SSG alone, 160k multiplier to that 50x amp to perceptions, already puts Goku out of reach.

I don't see anyway Mori can blitz full MUI Goku.

(All this is ignoring base U6 Goku keeping pace with SSG tier hit.)

 

[Shar122]

I'm voting Goku.

Mori might be more hax than Goku, but literally any attack Goku throw at Mori, will kill Mori, Even if you think Mori can somehow block a 4D attack, all 4D characters doesn't have the same potency remember that, typically varies in a sense that the characters who scales to how amount of universes varies, as there are infinite gap between the amount of universes that a character's potency occupies. Typically scaling to more universes gives more infinite levels of power than the previous one, and Mori here, in this key, has only solar system level of durability. So literally any attack that Goku has, one shot Mori jin,.. And also level for dura neg Ability, you need to provide evidence that Mori can dura neg that type of level, if not, then that's No limit fallacy for you, Plus true ultra instinct and MUI Goku isn't his final arsenal, he still has access to his Giant Avatar form which is superior than both MUI and TUI... The only problem is the hax, however Goku also has arsenal of his own, like Deconstruction, Soul destruction, Existence erasure, etc.. Via Hakai, If Mori doesn't have resistance to this, Goku could swept and win with this, but obviously he wouldn't use this in character every time, tho also.. Granolah using his information analysis can't sense any weakness and no vital points on Goku at his MUI form... Also Goku could use Kiai which he just glares, and creates a damaging shockwaves to his opponent, which would one shot Mori jin.

Also Mori Targeting Goku's organ is a terrible argument, SINCE Ki itself gives defense to the user's physical body, mind, spirit and alike.. One's nature is imbued by ki. it's shown AGAIN and AGAIN in the series, example are Buuhan vs Vegito, He targeted Vegito's inside, trying to blow his organs and all.. But Vegito is so strong that anything Buuhan do doesn't work on him, also Supported by the fact that even user's Ki can protect their clothing as well, if they don't have such control over their Ki, or rather not learned to use it at will, we will have a lot destroyed clothes in the series, the only thing if someone damages Goku with a physical attack, if Goku is off guard and if he immensely reduce his power level..

 

[DavidTPPM]

I vote Goku. I don't buy dura neg via internal working on someone with several levels of infinity greater dura.

Goku has no resistance to it and we don't scale all stats to AP. Goku could have 2-A stats and 9-C organs same way he has 2-C AP but class M Ls

To elucidate on reaction, base Goku tapping into UI had better perceptions than SSJ (50x) Vegeta.

Vegeta states that tapping into UI gets sharper when using Super Saiyan forms, and Super Saiyan forms already increases senses, and the full MUI is a blue fusion level increase, SSB x SSB, 8 mil x 8 mil, or 25.6 billion times multiplier to all stats.

Goku only tapping into UI in conjunction with just SSG alone, 160k multiplier to that 50x amp to perceptions, already puts Goku out of reach.

Goku starts in MUI so it's multipliers don't matter. They're the speed that gets equalized.

I don't see anyway Mori can blitz full MUI Goku.

Both are equal speed but Mori uses several amps to get more than 250,000x faster.

 

[SeijiSetto]

Goku has no resistance to it and we don't scale all stats to AP. Goku could have 2-A stats and 9-C organs same way he has 2-C AP but class M Ls

ok but at the same time someone's organs wouldn't be several levels of infinity weaker than the outside of their body otherwise any punch to something like the torso would instantly kill them from the force passing through, it's not like all the force just dissipates at the skin (see: liver shots)
the fact that goku can be punched in the stomach or the head by people on his own level would mean that stuff like his brain or his organs (while more vulnerable than the rest of him due to not being designed for taking impacts) aren't several levels of infinity weaker

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Goku has no resistance to it and we don't scale all stats to AP. Goku could have 2-A stats and 9-C organs same way he has 2-C AP but class M Ls

Goku starts in MUI so it's multipliers don't matter. They're the speed that gets equalized.

Both are equal speed but Mori uses several amps to get more than 250,000x faster.

Goku doesn't have 9-C organs. This is a false comparison. Ki strengthens the body in and out, and in the Broly LN Broly survives getting ki detonated in his insides.

Assuming 3D dura neg can harm 4D durability is NLF.

Goku starting in MUI doesn't affect my arguement. The form itself would still give him that level of reaction time, which far eclipses 250k. That comes with the form. The enchanced perceptions came before and existed without the Super Saiyan multipliers.

Just because you equalized speed doesn't mean MUI Goku isn't 25.6 billion times stronger or faster than base Goku, that just means his speed in MUI has been equalized to Mori's.

So my points stands.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Mori might be more hax than Goku, but literally any attack Goku throw at Mori, will kill Mori,

They would have to land for that. Mori moves in a way that's invisible to people of his level and is 2500000x faster even without speed mode and step technique both of which are further speed amps.

Even if you think Mori can somehow block a 4D attack, all 4D characters doesn't have the same potency remember that, typically varies in a sense that the characters who scales to how amount of universes varies, as there are infinite gap between the amount of universes that a character's potency occupies. Typically scaling to more universes gives more infinite levels of power than the previous one, and Mori here, in this key, has only solar system level of durability. So literally any attack that Goku has, one shot Mori jin,..

Any attack that Goku could use before getting blitzed would just get redirected back at him.

And there's also level for dura neg Ability, you need to provide evidence that Mori can dura neg that type of level, if not, then that's No limit fallacy for you,

I did give a scan stating recoiless splits you in half from the inside.

Plus true ultra instinct Goku isn't his final arsenal, he still has access to his Giant Avatar form which is arguably superior than TUI... The only problem is the hax, however Goku also has arsenal of his own, like Deconstruction, Soul destruction, Existence erasure, etc.. Via Hakai, If Mori doesn't have resistance to this, Goku could swept and win with this, but obviously he wouldn't use this in character every time, tho also.. Granolah using his information analysis can't sense any weakness and no vital points on Goku at his MUI form... Also Goku could use Kiai which he just glares, and creates a damaging shockwaves to his opponent, which would one shot Mori jin.

All meaningless if it gets dodged or redirected

Also Mori Targeting Goku's organ is a terrible argument, SINCE Ki itself gives defense to the user's physical body, mind, spirit and alike.

He has no such resistances on his profile.

And like I said Mori has other win cons as well. There's time hax, vibration hax, absorption hax, crushing with ridiculously higher LS, etc.