Goku vs. Garou (Martial Arts Battle)

[Kachon123]

OPM fandom seems to like to shit on DB the most, considering it as what OPM would become if it went wrong.

What are you talking about

So i get why it's hard to admit a mainstream character like Goku would beat a character like Garou who is notably high in the ranks of the wiki when it comes to top skilled martial artist.

"Hard to admit." Bro I'm convinced that you're speaking out of your ass. Goku in no universe or continuity is more skilled than Garou and you have no feats to back it up.

 

[Gumball_Ushiromiya]

(and because we don't count omega hax cultivator martial arts shit and fate series infinity transcending skill feats at face value)

Intense confusion​

 

[Quantu]

Oh boy, 6 pages. This is wayy to subjective a topic for my liking and I'll likely miss loads of things but Goku wins this Low-Mid Difficulty imo.

Yes Garou can copy Goku but Goku has copied stuff too. Garou has an understanding of the flow of all energy in the universe but likely won't be able to mimic UI or just straight up combust, like Moro. Garou can neg his durability too with his Fa Jin but Goku's pressure points, automatic hardening with UI and the fact that he has no vital areas (no openings - stated by Granolah iirc) will make it hard for Garou to touch him. Not to mention the insane skill scaling chain we get all the way from DB until DBS. He didn't suddenly stop gaining skill. Goku also beats Hits Time Manipulation via pure analytical skill because Immeasurable speed is not accepted. Garou has never done anything close to this

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

honestly, there kinda is to a pretty great extent to objectively discern skill. But sure, if you want to play that card, fine by me.

Infact your logic only applies to those that are relatively close in skill. UI ***** on Garou to the point where you can’t play this card

I was referring to wacky impossible skill feats that are difficult to quantify or characters that are relatively close, yes. Ikki for example is obviously more skilled than a drunken caveman, but how would you compare manipulating reality through sheer skill to performing advanced ki techniques if they’re both simply impossible by real world standards?

 

[Gumball_Ushiromiya]

OPM fans and DB fans really don't like each other
Not opm fans raging cause Saitama can't beat Goku though XD
(Please don't hurt me)

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Oh boy, 6 pages. This is wayy to subjective a topic for my liking and I'll likely miss loads of things but Goku wins this Low-Mid Difficulty imo.

Yes Garou can copy Goku but Goku has copied stuff too. Garou has an understanding of the flow of all energy in the universe but likely won't be able to mimic UI or just straight up combust, like Moro. Garou can neg his durability too with his Fa Jin but Goku's pressure points, automatic hardening with UI and the fact that he has no vital areas (no openings - stated by Granolah iirc) will make it hard for Garou to touch him. Not to mention the insane skill scaling chain we get all the way from DB until DBS. He didn't suddenly stop gaining skill. Goku also beats Hits Time Manipulation via pure analytical skill because Immeasurable speed is not accepted. Garou has never done anything close to this

Honestly you’ve said every single thing. Watch them still disagree with some fallaciously argument

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I was referring to wacky impossible skill feats that are difficult to quantify or characters that are relatively close, yes. Ikki for example is obviously more skilled than a drunken caveman, but how would you compare manipulating reality through sheer skill to performing advanced ki techniques if they’re both simply impossible by real world standards?

Fair point.
If one beats the other in hand to hand combat stats equal. We know this lol

 

[Phoenks]

Yes Garou can copy Goku but Goku has copied stuff too.

Garou's copying abilities are far superior. Explained this many times already.

Garou has an understanding of the flow of all energy in the universe but likely won't be able to mimic UI or just straight up combust, like Moro

Why not? It is inferior to his own Instinctive Reactions.

Garou can neg his durability too with his Fa Jin but Goku's pressure points, automatic hardening with UI and the fact that he has no vital areas (no openings - stated by Granolah iirc) will make it hard for Garou to touch him

Garou has pressure points as well, passive evolution, and no openings. He may also not even be an inorganic being. What's your point?

Not to mention the insane skill scaling chain we get all the way from DB until DBS. He didn't suddenly stop gaining skill

Scaling chains aren't that noteworthy in the face of concrete feats and Garou has his own scaling chains as well.

Goku also beats Hits Time Manipulation via pure analytical skill.

Garou beats speed blitz via pure analytical skill which is effectively the same thing.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

OPM fans and DB fans really don't like each other
Not opm fans raging cause Saitama can't beat Goku though XD
(Please don't hurt me)

I am a dragon ball and one punch fan simultaneously, but I don't hate myself I think.

 

[Epiccheev]

I was referring to wacky impossible skill feats that are difficult to quantify or characters that are relatively close, yes. Ikki for example is obviously more skilled than a drunken caveman, but how would you compare manipulating reality through sheer skill to performing advanced ki techniques if they’re both simply impossible by real world standards?

Stuff like analytical prediction/precog and experience can be pretty objectively quantified most of the time. Growth speed (technique) generally can too.
Skill copying is where it gets weird, specially if we are talking about impossible martial arts and stuff like Rimuru copying skill/magic.

Then we get to mastering said martial arts that often involve verse restricted mechanics, like hokuto no ken pressure points, DB Ki techniques that are harder than martial arts, but are so different from anything irl and in other verses there's 0 ways to compare, Martial arts that do completely impossible shit like Garou's shockwaves and somehow directly hitting atoms with your fists/sword.

Though what i said about martial arts apply to anything that completely surpasses logic in the verse. (Like predicting infinite probabilities), Cellular and beyond body control, absurdly enhanced senses, charaters with omniscience wich would include martial arts and everything their opponents would ever do,etc.

 

[ToughAsToenails20]

My visitation may have been short-lived but I'm gonna take a break from this thread (or just leave overall, you'll know if I come back). People making excuses for their clear bias against Goku, can't stand it.

 

[Gumball_Ushiromiya]

I am a dragon ball and one punch fan simultaneously, but I don't hate myself I think.

Hē

 

[Phoenks]

My visitation may have been short-lived but I'm gonna take a break from this thread (or just leave overall, you'll know if I come back). People making excuses for their clear bias against Goku, can't stand it.

You have yet to bring up a single argument. Goodbye, I guess.

 

[Epiccheev]

Bruh, let`s keep being respectful at least.

 

[Gumball_Ushiromiya]

Bruh, let`s keep being respectful at least.

violence is not the answer, it's the question, the answer is yes.
So what's the current verdict so far?
Goku>garou or vice versa?
Or are both parties still unwilling to admit defeat?
Can't be bothered to read the whole thread

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Why not? It is inferior to his own Instinctive Reactions.

yeah… pure bias.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

violence is not the answer, it's the question, the answer is yes.
So what's the current verdict so far?
Goku>garou or vice versa?
Or are both parties still unwilling to admit defeat?
Can't be bothered to read the whole thread

General belief (I think) :

DBS Goku > Garou > Z Goku > DB Golu

Some people believe Garou shitstomps all Gokus or vice versa though

 

[Phoenks]

yeah… pure bias.

Feats & Applications > Scaling Chains

 

[Arnoldstone18]

You have yet to bring up a single argument. Goodbye, I guess.

You have yet to reply to this

Then prove it has evolved past Adult Goku and Master Roshi’s level of IR, besides UI and MUI.

Adult Goku feat before UI: BoG arc, Goku’s body subconsciously predicted that Beerus was going to attack and moved out of the way before Beerus could attack. Goku was confused as to why that happened, Beerus explained to Goku that it was due to his fighting prowess allowing him to react instinctively.

Master Roshi’s feat: performed an instinctive reaction feat greater than Battle of God Goku’s feat with Beerus. Someone Goku has far surpassed is capable of reacting to Jiren who Goku is struggling with. His Instinctive reaction was stated by Whis to be similar, yet a Far Cry from Ultra instinct’s capabilities.

Prove Garou has surpassed those two very impressive feats which are a way below baseline Ultra Instinct.

If you bullshit your way out of this one you still have to prove Garou covers the gap between those two feats and UI. Then prove Garou covers the gaps between Goku improving UI sign over time, then another gap where Goku masters UI, then you will have to keep bullshitting your way past his UI improvement thanks to Goku’s training with Merus in the Moro Arc, BS your way past the UI that decimated Moro, who copied UI and other fighters, Then you have Granola arc where Goku incorporates UI into his Base and improves it further with his transformations. (Granola became the strongest in the universe, He first attacks Goku and Vegeta with a weaker clone that is faster than them, attacks them, attacks them at full strength. Then Gas comes along and becomes the strongest in the universe to surpass Granola’s speed and strength to attack) an improved version of MUI Allowed Goku to keep up with Granola’s clone’s attacks (the clone is stronger and faster than both Goku and Vegeta), Goku improves, beats up the clone gets distracted and gets taken out by a sneak attack. Later on he wakes up and further improves to surpass the clone, and the real deal to match another character named Gas who is faster than Granola.


There is no way you can get Garou above Master Roshi and it’s not even possible to bullshit your way into these layers of UI.
Don’t disappoint me

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Feats & Applications > Scaling Chains

Hey everyone, wait till he realizes scaling chains involve feats

 

[Phoenks]

Adult Goku feat before UI: BoG arc, Goku’s body subconsciously predicted that Beerus was going to attack and moved out of the way before Beerus could attack. Goku was confused as to why that happened, Beerus explained to Goku that it was due to his fighting prowess allowing him to react instinctively.

Master Roshi’s feat: performed an instinctive reaction feat greater than Battle of God Goku’s feat with Beerus. Someone Goku has far surpassed is capable of reacting to Jiren who Goku is struggling with. His Instinctive reaction was stated by Whis to be similar, yet a Far Cry from Ultra instinct’s capabilities.

Human Garou had this with an incomplete Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist. And it's not just against a single attack, while using it his body is stated to move automatically/on its own without the need for him to think. And this is active throughout the entire duration of his fights.

But if you are looking for things that arent while utilizing techniques. Human Garou (Using Human Garou only to prove that you are downplaying Garou a lot), was able to evade a technique he wasn't aware of at all instinctively, after being poisoned, drained of stamina, and beaten badly.

 

[thenewguy]

Garou's copying abilities are far superior. Explained this many times already.

Thanks to God, not skill

Why not? It is inferior to his own Instinctive Reactions.

Proof? Goku's Instinctive reactions are akin to a multiplier of speed given it allowed Goku to keep pace with Vegeta as a Super Saiyan whilst the former was still in base. What do you have besides Garou getting washed by Darkshine whilst asleep?

Garou has pressure points as well

Which UI makes irrelevant, even in the event that he was relative in IR since Goku will shift them out of harm's way. Saiyan anatomy is also not known to Garou.

, passive evolution,

Until he hits a ceiling and gets bopped and receives another powerup from God

and no openings. He may also not even be an inorganic being. What's your point?

He's been hit too much to have zero any openings

Garou beats speed blitz via pure analytical skill which is effectively the same thing.

Show Saitama speed blitzing him

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Human Garou had this with an incomplete Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist. And it's not just against a single attack, while using it his body is stated to move automatically/on its own without the need for him to think. And this is active throughout the entire duration of his fights.

But if you are looking for things that arent while utilizing techniques. Human Garou (Using Human Garou only to prove that you are downplaying Garou a lot), was able to evade a technique he wasn't aware of at all instinctively, after being poisoned, drained of stamina, and beaten badly.

Finally… you responded. But I won’t comment wether I disagree or agree because you still have hurdles to climb.

Now these feat you scale to Roshi is a far cry from UI according to Whis.

How does Garou get over this hurdle without NLF?

 

[Phoenks]

Thanks to God, not skill

Even disregarding God Garou was able to copy and master complex martial arts techniques in his sleep. And has many "with a glance" feats as well.

Proof? Goku's Instinctive reactions are akin to a multiplier of speed given it allowed Goku to keep pace with Vegeta as a Super Saiyan whilst the former was still in base. What do you have besides Garou getting washed by Darkshine whilst asleep?

I explained this many times. Scroll up.

Which UI makes irrelevant, even in the event that he was relative in IR since Goku will shift them out of harm's way. Saiyan anatomy is also not known to Garou.

Doesn't matter because his information analysis will make it known to him. He analyzes a lot more than Goku does when he fights.

Until he hits a ceiling and gets bopped and receives another powerup from God

He has never shown to hit a ceiling.

He's been hit too much to have zero any openings

Only because of blitz-worthy speed.

 

[ToughAsToenails20]

Hey everyone, wait till he realizes scaling chains involve feats

This is actually hilarious.

 

[Quantu]

Skill chains do matter, when both characters have relative skill feats then they can be used to ascertain levels of superiority. It's not like I'm using a skill chain of Larry the Lobster.

I don't care if Garou could be inorganic, as it stands he is not. Also, "Garou beats speed blitz via pure analytical skill which is effectively the same thing."

No? Garou could be beating a MFTL+ character via analytical skill and it still doesn't come close to Goku. He's still analyzing a finite period of time. Goku on the other hand, if I remember right, is analyzing at LEAST 0.5 seconds into the future (likely greater, as Hit probably improved since the U6 arc -> to Goku stating timeskip wouldn't work on him anymore post Zamasu). This is literally not close.

Anyways I'm unfollowing. Arguing against my favourite OPM character feels weird

 

[Phoenks]

Skill chains do matter, when both characters have relative skill feats then they can be used to ascertain levels of superiority. It's not like I'm using a skill chain of Larry the Lobster.

Never said they didn't matter. I said that feats and applicability of skill are superior to scaling chains of skill.

Garou beats speed blitz via pure analytical skill which is effectively the same thing." No?

Except he did. Saitama attacks at speeds that he can't even see and he's able to dodge and predict them.

 

[Gumball_Ushiromiya]

General belief (I think) :

DBS Goku > Garou > Z Goku > DB Golu

Some people believe Garou shitstomps all Gokus or vice versa though

Aight

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Anyways I'm unfollowing. Arguing against my favourite OPM character feels weird

I felt this. So sorry

 

[thenewguy]

Even disregarding God Garou was able to copy and master complex martial arts techniques in his sleep. And has many "with a glance" feats as well.

Such as?

I explained this many times. Scroll up.

No.

Doesn't matter because his information analysis will make it known to him. He analyzes a lot more than Goku does when he fights.

I think he's going to be a little too preoccupied getting stomped to do that? Goku has a twofold defense here, better reflexes in addition to the vital point shifting

He has never shown to hit a ceiling.

Pretty sure that happened when he was completely out of ideas on what to do against Saitama then got clocked into the horizon to get his latest boost

Only because of blitz-worthy speed.

Show Saitama blitzing him. You argue the feat is impressive because Saitama is magnitudes faster, yes? Even though Goku has the same feat but better with a time manipulator

 

[Gumball_Ushiromiya]

I felt this. So sorry

 

[Gumball_Ushiromiya]

The animosity in this thread is making it hard to read these arguments :/
Can yall not be passive aggressive towards each other?

 

[Epiccheev]

Anyways I'm unfollowing. Arguing against my favourite OPM character feels weird

Tbh this, Garou is easily the most interesting OPM character to use in vsbattles due to his skill(even if my favorite is flashy flash due to his cool dorkyness).
I mostly came to this thread with an open mind because i like skill debates and wanted to learn more about Goku. It's been very productive for me. (even if i'd much prefer Garou to win)

 

[Kachon123]

Thanks to God, not skill

God gave him knowledge and AP + Dura. It's all skill.

 

[Phoenks]

By the way I just noticed something . . .

Goku's Mastered Ultra Instinct gets less accurate as time goes on.

Doesn't this give him an obvious disadvantage here? Not to mention, doesn't this infer that his instincts are basically completely dependent on the amp? Meanwhile, Garou's is just a natural ability he's gained without needing any special power boost.

 

[Hizack123]

Nah, Garou is his only avatar, yet he isn't at his control, so he may not be

Maybe Because Garou literally rejected him.

And even then touch his hand is already enough.

A-are you really debate about what happened in the chapter right now??????

Go read the ******* chapter!

 

[thenewguy]

God gave him knowledge and AP + Dura. It's all skill.

Lol that ain't skill, that's a handout.

 

[thenewguy]

By the way I just noticed something . . .

Goku's Mastered Ultra Instinct gets less accurate as time goes on.

Doesn't this give him an obvious disadvantage here? Not to mention, doesn't this infer that his instincts are basically completely dependent on the amp? Meanwhile, Garou's is just a natural ability he's gained without needing any special power boost.

Only someone above Goku in stats could even exploit that. Once again, you comparing their IR is false equivalence to begin with. UI is better than Garou's,

 

[Arnoldstone18]

God gave him knowledge and AP + Dura. It's all skill.

Waiting until you come back to your senses to realize Goku AP+Durability is higher

 

[Gumball_Ushiromiya]

Waiting until you come back to your senses to realize Goku AP+Durability is higher

|sigh|