Goku Mui Reactive Evolution Revision

[Saintdhqhdy]

Goku in the manga Mui allows his body to automatically grow more durability as necessary for the situation.


Mui also forces goku to surpass his limits to defeat an opponent when he’s overpowered, for example, when gas knocked goku knocked him out cold, mui turn on while he was unconscious and summoned the giant avatar to defeat Gas. And he did overpower him Gas in that state since Gas couldn’t break free from grip.

Reactive Evolution

Reactive Evolution is the ability to, in response to threats and adverse situations, evolve in ways the user previously lacked. This allowing them to be better capable of dealing with said issues faced, and this evolution can come in the following ways: Developing new powers or abilities...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Yea Goku really does solo.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

This is Accelerated Development (which he already has)

 

[Saintdhqhdy]

This is Accelerated Development (which he already has)

No it’s not, Mui literally forces goku to adapt to the situation instantly

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

No it’s not, Mui literally forces goku to adapt to the situation instantly

He did not adapt to any kind of hax. Adapting ones durability and ap is accelerated development.

Reactive evolution is more of hax related that they normally dont resist.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

He didn't gain anything he didn't already have

 

[Saintdhqhdy]

He did not adapt to any kind of hax. Adapting ones durability and ap is accelerated development.

Reactive evolution is more of hax related that they normally dont resist.

No, it’s completely narratively correct for goku to gain resistances from mui being that the entire point of it is to adapt to any situation goku is losing in, especially in dragon ball since almost all hax in it are based off ki, which goku can gain resistance by literally becoming stronger. This is kinda a cheesy argument but he also gained energy projection from mui, which is a hax he didn’t have before on his profile.

 

[Excellence616]

No, it’s completely narratively correct for goku to gain resistances from mui being that the entire point of it is to adapt to any situation goku is losing in, especially in dragon ball since almost all hax in it are based off ki, which goku can gain resistance by literally becoming stronger. This is kinda a cheesy argument but he also gained energy projection from mui, which is a hax he didn’t have before on his profile.

Resistance by getting stronger isn't Reactive Evolution.
go and read up Doomsday profile and see example of Reactive Evolution

 

[Saintdhqhdy]

Resistance by getting stronger isn't Reactive Evolution.
go and read up Doomsday profile and see example of Reactive Evolution

Why do you make a claim and then not explain further on it? You basically just said nah and then left it at that and now bc of that, I can’t properly respond to it. Explain the first part.

I don’t see why doomsday is relevant, it’s not like it has to be ideally exactly like his, he just happens to have one of the most blatant cases of it.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Why do you make a claim and then not explain further on it? You basically just said nah and then left it at that and now bc of that, I can’t properly respond to it. Explain the first part.

I don’t see why doomsday is relevant, it’s not like it has to be ideally exactly like his, he just happens to have one of the most blatant cases of it.

Yeah his is blatant which is why he has it.
Goku isn't aside from energy projection.
Now you extraordinarily claimed it as reactive evolution but that was the only feat and could simply be a result of another ability. Now where is your extraordinary evidence to support it as reactive evolution over the other already mentioned?

Every other RE users has feat to evolving to gain resistance and abilities.

 

[Saintdhqhdy]

Yeah his is blatant which is why he has it.
Goku isn't aside from energy projection.
Now you extraordinarily claimed it as reactive evolution but that was the only feat and could simply be a result of another ability. Now where is your extraordinary evidence to support it as reactive evolution over the other already mentioned?

Every other RE users has feat to evolving to gain resistance and abilities.

The point was, it doesn’t have to be as blatant. Literally all I need to prove is goku gained what the page for reactive evolution, which I did. I actually proved goku gained resistances while responding to you, which you have yet to reply to LOL.

 

[Excellence616]

Why do you make a claim and then not explain further on it? You basically just said nah and then left it at that and now bc of that, I can’t properly respond to it. Explain the first part.

I don’t see why doomsday is relevant, it’s not like it has to be ideally exactly like his, he just happens to have one of the most blatant cases of it.

Did he gain another powers and resistance when he evolved?
All i see is just Goku surpassing his limits like always.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Still not convinced. I disagree

 

[Saintdhqhdy]

Did he gain another powers and resistance when he evolved?
All i see is just Goku surpassing his limits like always.

Scroll up, I gave a argument for why that would be the case

 

[Chariot190]

Show Goku in MUI adapting to a hax ability that doesn't have a dumb weakness like Hit's that stops working once you stat check him.

Literally all you have to do here to get this accepted.

 

[Saintdhqhdy]

Show Goku in MUI adapting to a hax ability that doesn't have a dumb weakness like Hit's that stops working once you stat check him.

Literally all you have to do here to get this accepted.

Why would I need to show that when I can prove the same thing in a different way? Asking for a blatant example when I don’t it to prove my point, you the second person to say this btw.

Then you bring up hit’s ability like dawg, hit ain’t the only one, actually, you want a list of hax that functions the same way???

 

[Chariot190]

Why would I need to show that when I can prove the same thing in a different way? Asking for a blatant example when I don’t it to prove my point, you the second person to say this btw.

I'm the second person to bring it up because you're extrapolating "adaption", in the sense of power, to extend to esoteric powers and hax, which is never actually shown, unless it has, in which case show.

Then you bring up hit’s ability like dawg, hit ain’t the only one, actually, you want a list of hax that functions the same way???

I'm well aware, and in those cases that's a weakness of the hax being unable to affect certain things, not a boon of Goku.

Hit's time skip fails against stronger dudes in the manga canon because that's a weakness for it, but if someone else from another verse with the same ability used it on Goku, it'd work because it doesn't have that funny meme weakness. That doesn't mean Goku has RE for overcoming Hit's time skip, that's just time skip having a flaw.

You want Goku to have Reactive Evolution? Show him, MUI, adapting to hax that has no "strong power invalidates it" weakness. Do that and it'd be accepted pretty easily, otherwise you haven't actually gave good reason for why he should have it.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I'm the second person to bring it up because you're extrapolating "adaption", in the sense of power, to extend to esoteric powers and hax, which is never actually shown, unless it has, in which case show.

I'm well aware, and in those cases that's a weakness of the hax being unable to affect certain things, not a boon of Goku.

Hit's time skip fails against stronger dudes in the manga canon because that's a weakness for it, but if someone else from another verse with the same ability used it on Goku, it'd work because it doesn't have that funny meme weakness. That doesn't mean Goku has RE for overcoming Hit's time skip, that's just time skip having a flaw.

You want Goku to have Reactive Evolution? Show him, MUI, adapting to hax that has no "strong power invalidates it" weakness. Do that and it'd be accepted pretty easily, otherwise you haven't actually gave good reason for why he should have it.

That’s the manga it doesn’t have relevance to the anime the wiki already accepts that Goku adapted to Hit’s timeskip you may read Goku’s ability page and his intelligence section

 

[Chariot190]

That’s the manga it doesn’t have relevance to the anime the wiki already accepts that Goku adapted to Hit’s timeskip you may read Goku’s ability page and his intelligence section

This is a manga thread dude.

 

[thetechmaster36]

That’s the manga it doesn’t have relevance to the anime the wiki already accepts that Goku adapted to Hit’s timeskip you may read Goku’s ability page and his intelligence section

dragon ball fans can't read

Anyways, disagree with the thread

 

[Saintdhqhdy]

I'm the second person to bring it up because you're extrapolating "adaption", in the sense of power, to extend to esoteric powers and hax, which is never actually shown, unless it has, in which case show.

I'm well aware, and in those cases that's a weakness of the hax being unable to affect certain things, not a boon of Goku.

Hit's time skip fails against stronger dudes in the manga canon because that's a weakness for it, but if someone else from another verse with the same ability used it on Goku, it'd work because it doesn't have that funny meme weakness. That doesn't mean Goku has RE for overcoming Hit's time skip, that's just time skip having a flaw.

You want Goku to have Reactive Evolution? Show him, MUI, adapting to hax that has no "strong power invalidates it" weakness. Do that and it'd be accepted pretty easily, otherwise you haven't actually gave good reason for why he should have it.

I'm the second person to bring it up because you're extrapolating "adaption", in the sense of power, to extend to esoteric powers and hax, which is never actually shown, unless it has, in which case show.

I'm well aware, and in those cases that's a weakness of the hax being unable to affect certain things, not a boon of Goku.

Hit's time skip fails against stronger dudes in the manga canon because that's a weakness for it, but if someone else from another verse with the same ability used it on Goku, it'd work because it doesn't have that funny meme weakness. That doesn't mean Goku has RE for overcoming Hit's time skip, that's just time skip having a flaw.

You want Goku to have Reactive Evolution? Show him, MUI, adapting to hax that has no "strong power invalidates it" weakness. Do that and it'd be accepted pretty easily, otherwise you haven't actually gave good reason for why he should have it.

I'm the second person to bring it up because you're extrapolating "adaption", in the sense of power, to extend to esoteric powers and hax, which is never actually shown, unless it has, in which case show.

I'm well aware, and in those cases that's a weakness of the hax being unable to affect certain things, not a boon of Goku.

Hit's time skip fails against stronger dudes in the manga canon because that's a weakness for it, but if someone else from another verse with the same ability used it on Goku, it'd work because it doesn't have that funny meme weakness. That doesn't mean Goku has RE for overcoming Hit's time skip, that's just time skip having a flaw.

You want Goku to have Reactive Evolution? Show him, MUI, adapting to hax that has no "strong power invalidates it" weakness. Do that and it'd be accepted pretty easily, otherwise you haven't actually gave good reason for why he should have it.

Omg it’s never shown, so what? Why does it need to be shown to be considered reactive evolution? See instead of attacking my actual argument, you’re asking for a specific line of proof when said proof isn’t necessary to prove my claim, imma ask you again since you ignored me the first time. Why would I need to show what you’re asking for when I can prove the same thing without it?

Prove its a weakness of the hax, here’s a equal interpretation to leave you’re argument standing still, Goku can just adapt to hax when he grows stronger, now explain to me why your interpretation would be above the one I just gave you.

Instead of begging for one line of evidence that isn’t necessary, how about you attack my argument??

 

[StekFence]

Prove its a weakness of the hax,

Im pretty sure it’s flat out stated it fails vs a stronger opponent, not goku specifically. That would make it a weakness of the hax

 

[thetechmaster36]

Why does it need to be shown to be considered reactive evolution?

Read the page.

This allowing them to be better capable of dealing with said issues faced, and this evolution can come in the following ways:

• Developing new powers or abilities
• Developing new resistances
• Developing greater statistics. However, if this is the only way in which they "evolve", then Accelerated Development should be given instead to avoid redundancy.

What you are proposing is AD, not RE.

Prove its a weakness of the hax, here’s a equal interpretation to leave you’re argument standing still, Goku can just adapt to hax when he grows stronger, now explain to me why your interpretation would be above the one I just gave you.

Because it's stated and shown that Hit's Time Skip tends to fail against stronger foes. That's a weakness of the hax.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Disagree FRA.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

This is a manga thread dude.

Well **** mb but anime Ku definitely needs RE

Disagree FRA.

You’re back?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

You’re back?

I only said I wouldn’t participate in major stat revisions, not minor stuff

 

[Chariot190]

Omg it’s never shown, so what? Why does it need to be shown to be considered reactive evolution? See instead of attacking my actual argument, you’re asking for a specific line of proof when said proof isn’t necessary to prove my claim, imma ask you again since you ignored me the first time. Why would I need to show what you’re asking for when I can prove the same thing without it?

Exactly, it's never shown so why the hell would we accept it? We index shit, you gotta give us something to actually index.
Honestly? It's because your argument is kinda meh and is based on nothing but Headcanon and extrapolation, no offense but I can't really attack an argument that isn't there to begin with.
In context of the claims, they're talking about physicality and power and what not.
When they say MUI can adapt, they don't mean "oh yeah MUI could adapt to uh, idk, soul hax or blood manip lol", no, just like everything else, they mean its power and stats can change to compensate for attacks or whatever, made blatantly obvious by the examples at hand that the very statements are referring to in context.

So yeah, unless you have proof it extends to actual hax and not just the exclusively physical examples actually shown, tough luck. Or you could bring up a statement saying it extends to hax too, that would work, but what you got in the op ain't it chief.

Prove its a weakness of the hax, here’s a equal interpretation to leave you’re argument standing still, Goku can just adapt to hax when he grows stronger, now explain to me why your interpretation would be above the one I just gave you.

Uh, because Whis LITERALLY says "hey Hit's time skip has a big weakness, it doesn't work if the target's power exceeds Hit's lol". That isn't an interpretation, that's just how it is.
And you just finished saying basically all hax in DBZ works on the same logic so?

Instead of begging for one line of evidence that isn’t necessary, how about you attack my argument??

I'll do so once you actually present an argument relevant to our standards instead of just assuming it extends to hax without even the slightest bit of evidence.

Anyway, actual proof or this won't be accepted, it's really not that complex. You only need to show an explicit statement or a demonstrable feat and it'll be good to go.

 

[Saintdhqhdy]

Im pretty sure it’s flat out stated it fails vs a stronger opponent, not goku specifically. That would make it a weakness of the hax

I was asking him to prove it’s a weakness of all the other hax that function the same way, not just time skip. I then gave a counter argument to his time skip rant after that.

 

[Chariot190]

I was asking him to prove it’s a weakness of all the other hax that function the same way, not just time skip. I then gave a counter argument to his time skip rant after that.

You said, and I quote

especially in dragon ball since almost all hax in it are based off ki, which goku can gain resistance by literally becoming stronger.

In cases where having more Ki > hax that functions via ki
That's a weakness on the hax, not Goku having RE. And I brought up an explicit example where exactly what you said was confirmed with Hit's time skip failing, not because of RE, but because it just doesn't work against stronger dudes.

You shot yourself in the foot by arguing hax in DBZ is ki dependent and having stronger ki invalidates weaker ki hax.

 

[Saintdhqhdy]

Exactly, it's never shown so why the hell would we accept it? We index shit, you gotta give us something to actually index.
Honestly? It's because your argument is kinda meh and is based on nothing but Headcanon and extrapolation, no offense but I can't really attack an argument that isn't there to begin with.
In context of the claims, they're talking about physicality and power and what not.
When they say MUI can adapt, they don't mean "oh yeah MUI could adapt to uh, idk, soul hax or blood manip lol", no, just like everything else, they mean its power and stats can change to compensate for attacks or whatever, made blatantly obvious by the examples at hand that the very statements are referring to in context.

So yeah, unless you have proof it extends to actual hax and not just the exclusively physical examples actually shown, tough luck. Or you could bring up a statement saying it extends to hax too, that would work, but what you got in the op ain't it chief.


Uh, because Whis LITERALLY says "hey Hit's time skip has a big weakness, it doesn't work if the target's power exceeds Hit's lol". That isn't an interpretation, that's just how it is.
And you just finished saying basically all hax in DBZ works on the same logic so?


I'll do so once you actually present an argument relevant to our standards instead of just assuming it extends to hax without even the slightest bit of evidence.

Anyway, actual proof or this won't be accepted, it's really not that complex. You only need to show an explicit statement or a demonstrable feat and it'll be good to go.

Bc the wiki isn’t stupid enough to only go off blatant feats, at least I hope so. You can argue something based off heavily implications, narrative, etc.

my argument is based off nothing but you can’t properly respond to it? You also said it’s headcanon but at the same time agreed that goku can adapt hax by getting stronger, so did you agree to headcanon bc that’s basically my argument.
Can you prove the context you’re referring to?

Okay cool, you just gave your own interpretation on Mui adaptation ability, even tho you didnt really back it up, pretty cool, now prove why that interpretation is above the one I gave.

Well, I just refuted everything you said, tough luck responding properly.

W strawman, when did I say all hax works on the same logic?

I did present a argument tho? You’re just using excuses to run away from said argument LOL.

“Actual proof or this won’t be accepted” Vs wiki mod can’t refute a argument so instead of just conceding, he’s giving a ultimatum bc he can’t accept the fact goku solos LMAOOO

 

[StekFence]

No, it’s completely narratively correct for goku to gain resistances from mui being that the entire point of it is to adapt to any situation goku is losing in, especially in dragon ball since almost all hax in it are based off ki, which goku can gain resistance by literally becoming stronger.

your argument is that by increasing his Ki and becoming stronger, many inverse hax wouldn’t work on goku. Hits TS is the prime example of such a thing. While this is true, that’s not a resistance for goku, that’s the hax failing because thats just how it works.

W strawman, when did I say all hax works on the same logic?

you said almost all, and that’s the basis of your claim that he’s gaining resistances, as shown above.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Bc the wiki isn’t stupid enough to only go off blatant feats, at least I hope so. You can argue something based off heavily implications, narrative, etc.

my argument is based off nothing but you can’t properly respond to it? You also said it’s headcanon but at the same time agreed that goku can adapt hax by getting stronger, so did you agree to headcanon bc that’s basically my argument.
Can you prove the context you’re referring to?

Okay cool, you just gave your own interpretation on Mui adaptation ability, even tho you didnt really back it up, pretty cool, now prove why that interpretation is above the one I gave.

Well, I just refuted everything you said, tough luck responding properly.

W strawman, when did I say all hax works on the same logic?

I did present a argument tho? You’re just using excuses to run away from said argument LOL.

“Actual proof or this won’t be accepted” Vs wiki mod can’t refute a argument so instead of just conceding, he’s giving a ultimatum bc he can’t accept the fact goku solos LMAOOO

He’s not a vsb wiki mod and RE can probably go through if you argue for the anime instead of manga and it’d scale to base Saiyans are known for being able to adapt in battle and Goku is even shown being able to adapt to hits timeskip boom easy RE

 

[Saintdhqhdy]

You said, and I quote

In cases where having more Ki > hax that functions via ki
That's a weakness on the hax, not Goku having RE. And I brought up an explicit example where exactly what you said was confirmed with Hit's time skip failing, not because of RE, but because it just doesn't work against stronger dudes.

You shot yourself in the foot by arguing hax in DBZ is ki dependent and having stronger ki invalidates weaker ki hax.

Dawg, I already responded to this, I gave an equal interpretation, goku can adapt to hax by growing stronger, you didn’t respond to it yet.
I don’t see how time skip speak for the other hax, explain why it would.

 

[StekFence]

Dawg, I already responded to this, I gave an equal interpretation, goku can adapt to hax by growing stronger, you didn’t respond to it yet.
I don’t see how time skip speak for the other hax, explain why it would.

Wait, so what are some examples of Hax that don’t work on stronger opponents.

 

[Chariot190]

strawman, when did I say all hax works on the same logic

"Then you bring up hit’s ability like dawg, hit ain’t the only one, actually, you want a list of hax that functions the same way???" - you
You're backpedaling now that it was pointed out shit working like Hit's hax is the exact opposite of what needs to be the case. (Especially because now you're saying none work like Hit's).

Also I'm not a mod, but damn if I need to be to call out this shit.

Rest of your post isn't worth responding to given it's just you saying it's true and then not giving evidence.

Post proof, otherwise I'll contact an actual mod to close this for stonewalling.

 

[Saintdhqhdy]

your argument is that by increasing his Ki and becoming stronger, many inverse hax wouldn’t work on goku. Hits TS is the prime example of such a thing. While this is true, that’s not a resistance for goku, that’s the hax failing because thats just how it works.

you said almost all, and that’s the basis of your claim that he’s gaining resistances, as shown above.

No, you’re completely ignoring the first part of the argument, my argument is it’s narratively consistent for mui to adapt to hax bc the point of it is to adapt to any situation, the ki point is supporting evidence that isn’t needed but is added.

 

[Saintdhqhdy]

He’s not a vsb wiki mod and RE can probably go through if you argue for the anime instead of manga and it’d scale to base Saiyans are known for being able to adapt in battle and Goku is even shown being able to adapt to hits timeskip boom easy RE

Diamond warrior, mod, same thing

 

[Chariot190]

Diamond warrior, mod, same thing

Literally not, it just means I ain't broke ass.

my argument is it’s narratively consistent for mui to adapt to hax bc the point of it is to adapt to any situation

Situation in context being shit like getting ass kicked by a dude 50x his strength, not he could adapt to someone temporarily BFR'ing him or turning his abstract mind into a rat.

Hell, didn't MUI Goku literally get fooled by an illusion? Why didn't he adapt to that?

Or why didn't his body adapt to info analysis from Gran?
Etc.

 

[StekFence]

No, you’re completely ignoring the first part of the argument, my argument is it’s narratively consistent for mui to adapt to hax bc the point of it is to adapt to any situation, the ki point is supporting evidence that isn’t needed but is added.

I don’t see where you are getting that from, your scans show ap/dura increases, and the wording used, “growing sturdier” and “surpassing limits” imply physical growth as well. He also gained the ability to manipulate his ki in a new way, but that’s not a different power, he’s just applying what he already has in a new way, same as using any other technique

 

[Saintdhqhdy]

"Then you bring up hit’s ability like dawg, hit ain’t the only one, actually, you want a list of hax that functions the same way???" - you
You're backpedaling now that it was pointed out shit working like Hit's hax is the exact opposite of what needs to be the case. (Especially because now you're saying none work like Hit's).

Also I'm not a mod, but damn if I need to be to call out this shit.

Rest of your post isn't worth responding to given it's just you saying it's true and then not giving evidence.

Post proof, otherwise I'll contact an actual mod to close this for stonewalling.

I never said all hax in that like what bro, were you expecting me to name every hax in the series when I asked you?

My argument was never truly the ki > hax argument. I brought it up bc you’re the one who brought up the shit with hit so I just went back and forth with the idea to refute you. Nobody is backpedaling.

“Rest of your post isn't worth responding to given it's just you saying it's true and then not giving evidence.”

Next way to run away, the evidence for my argument is literally in the post

Damn, even if bro isn’t a mod, he’s a diamond supporter, bro is still giving a ultimatum bc he can’t accept goku solos LMAOO

 

[Magicomethkuon]

Because it's stated and shown that Hit's Time Skip tends to fail against stronger foes. That's a weakness of the hax.

Sad that when it comes to DB, the claim is often that a hax failing to work is a weakness of the hax, instead of advanced ki control providing resistance. But that is something to discuss another day. This thread, I also disagree with: MUI needs proof against hax, all the scans it has fall victim to the third bullet point of Reactive Evolution.

• Developing greater statistics. However, if this is the only way in which they "evolve", then Accelerated Development should be given instead to avoid redundancy.