God of War: Ragnarok Discussion Thread

[BEASTHEART8800]

Maybe there's another well?

 

[KLOL506]

Maybe there's another well?

No. There isn't. The lake in Midgard is "THE" WELL OF URD.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Yes. Cory pretty much confirmed it in an email.

You can find the scan in the Yggdrasil clarification thread

Cory also confirmed in the same E-mail (and then on G-mail chat 4 years later) that the F.B. post was legit and meant to explain the Yggdrasil's nature in depth.

The Facebook scan suggests unquantifiably infinite difference with the statement "encompasses and goes well beyond countless sheets or reality stacked upon each other, with each sheet completely transcending the one below it". Cory says that the interpretation of considering the "countless sheets of reality" as infinite spatiotemporal dimensions is indeed valid.

1-B Kratos lol

 

[Lilixa]

Probably just game stuff. He should be able to use it's poison as well

Most likely just game balancing. There's no overt reason it'd arbitrarily lose some powers it had while retaining others.

the problems is that would be extrapolating while in norse game kratos literally throw poison at you

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

We still should find the scan itself tho

Although I honestly wouldn't mind if we accept Cory's statement.

NO 1-B Kratos tho

 

[KLOL506]

Cory also confirmed in the same E-mail (and then on G-mail chat) that the F.B. post was legit and meant to explain the Yggdrasil's nature in depth.

The Facebook scan suggests unquantifiably infinite difference with the statement "encompasses and goes well beyond countless sheets or reality stacked upon each other, with each sheet completely transcending the one below it". Cory says that the interpretation of considering the "countless sheets of reality" as infinite spatiotemporal dimensions is indeed valid.

1-B Kratos lol

None of this is mentioned in Ragnarok unfortunately, and we haven't seen any secondary canon for the game come out yet that say the same. So it's a case of "WoG contradicting what is actually shown" compared to the Tree's "transcending time and space" statement. Especially if we can't find even one other hint that this Facebook post existed to begin with.

 

[Planck69]

Doesn't Universe 7 have multiple branching timelines within it? I assume that's why the individual numbered universes are considered 2-C structures. Might be wrong tho.

Kind of the reverse. All 12 universes are space-time continuums that are part of a si gle overarching timeline, of which there are many. Don't even ask me why it isn't Tier 1, scaling Dragon Ball is like fist fighting Kratos.

Something tells me that Yggdrasil's structure can allow to travel back to other realms' past if you know where to hit.

Perhaps but this would require extra proof.

Though the problem is, Yggdrasil isn't a timeline and nor is it treated like one, and Freya explicitly states the tree to transcend time and space itself, which on its own doesn't mean much but the Green Rift thing left Odin asking for more.

Statement aside, the facts are that general time travel from the future of all Nine Realms to the past is possible, prophecies and future visions cover events that affect all Nine Realms and the acceleration of the coming of Ragnarok via Baldur's death in Midgard caused Fimbulwinter for all realms as well.

While the nature of its relations to the Nine Realms time flows is odd, the Yggdrasil very much does have a temporal dimension of some kind.

Hmmmm. Weird.

Yeah.

It does treat the cycle of life, death and rebirth as something that would eventually return to the tree anyway, but not sure if that on its own is enough to support Freya's statement.

The problem is that Yggdrasil isn't a timeline to begin with, nor is it treated as such. Kratos completely uprooted the first part of the prophecy while making the latter part of Groa's actual prophecy and forging it with his own ending.

I mean, timelines aren't really immutable so that in itself isn't a problem.

Again tho, the World Tree isn't treated as a timeline with multiple dimensions within it, but as something much higher than them.

The tree is much higher than the Nine Realms but that in itself wouldn't stop it from being a timeline since there's no set tier for them (The Cthulhu Mythos has High 1-B timelines/universes for instance) and the fact that even a much higher structure can encompass such dimensions within itself, insignificant as they are. Of course, if we can prove that the Nine Realms in and of themselves are space-time continuums independently then the Yggdrasil would go back to Low 1-C.

I'm not sure, the Realm Tears threaten the fabric of space and time of the individual realms and not the other realms or of Yggdrasil. If it did, all the realms including Yggdrasil itself would be at risk of being consumed completely.

Fair point here.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

This Yggdrasil tier shit is annoyingly Frustrating lol

 

[Planck69]

This Yggdrasil tier shit is annoyingly Frustrating lol

Doubly so now that the top level Norse Gods and monsters, alongside Kratos scale to it directly.

 

[Hellbeast]

To be honest, I feel like that's just a minor oversight.

Yeah it’s likely, the older games weren’t that concerned with narrative

It's never stated as far as I'm aware.

Hmm

Indeed. Though, it would mean the top Norse Gods and those on their level would be Low 2-C purely from their own scaling if the whole Thor and Jorm feat isn't explained.

I’d say At least Low 2-C but yeah

Considering that what Thor does implies there's a general past, present and future encompassing the realms, it likely is.

Yeah it’s partly why I was never fond of the “infinite timelines” idea for Yggdrasil; it seems very clearly to be the one story that changes when you go back

bifrost manip for kratos via mimir head

what would this be?

Remember to add Superhuman Physical Characteristics to all of them

Now for Jormungandr, he has

Large Size (Type 5)
Air Manipulation (Jormungandr talking alone creates strong gusts of wind)
Poison Manipulation (Can produce Eitr, a potent poison)
Power Bestowal (Can add Eitr onto Kratos's axe)
Body Weaponry (With fangs)

Shouldn’t this also have Power Nullification since Thor never regenerates? He might also have some form of magic and “limited spatial” manipulation for his fight with Thor punching through time

Yes. Cory pretty much confirmed it in an email.

You can find the scan in the Yggdrasil clarification thread

has that email been sourced?

Daedalus isn't within the Underworld, he's still within the Mortal World AKA Olympus. And his events mostly involve Pandora's Box, which happen within the Mortal World in GOW1.

I know, my point is he’s a regular man and his entire timeline is unaffected despite being in Greece

AFAIK, no, but the tree itself.

Hmm

Or perhaps the Tree can send you back to one other realm's specific past if you know where to hit.

Perhaps, idk if it’s about specific placement tho

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

I never got that "only inflicted minor damage" reasoning. That never made any sense.

 

[Hellbeast]

Doubly so now that the top level Norse Gods and monsters, alongside Kratos scale to it directly.

Don’t forget the Greeks

I never got that "only inflicted minor damage" reasoning. That never made any sense.

for what?

 

[KLOL506]

Kind of the reverse. All 12 universes are space-time continuums that are part of a si gle overarching timeline, of which there are many. Don't even ask me why it isn't Tier 1, scaling Dragon Ball is like fist fighting Kratos.

People were arguing that as a case for it to not be Tier 2.

Perhaps but this would require extra proof.

Prolly not given that the strike was so random and nobody even cared to look where it was being struck.

Statement aside, the facts are that general time travel from the future of all Nine Realms to the past is possible, prophecies and future visions cover events that affect all Nine Realms and the acceleration of the coming of Ragnarok via Baldur's death in Midgard caused Fimbulwinter for all realms as well.

A mini-Fimbulwinter happened the day Kratos arrived in Midgard but its effects were not mentioned in any prophecy and all the realms experienced only snow, they didn't experience their own versions like in Ragnarok.

Though Fimbulwinter could be one of those cycles existing higher than the realms themselves so IDK.

While the nature of its relations to the Nine Realms time flows is odd, the Yggdrasil very much does have a temporal dimension of some kind.

Maybe its temporal dimension is not the kind we'd see on a regular spacetime continuum, but Freya's statement makes me doubt this. That and the Realm Tears.

I mean, timelines aren't really immutable so that in itself isn't a problem.

I see.

The tree is much higher than the Nine Realms but that in itself wouldn't stop it from being a timeline since there's no set tier for them (The Cthulhu Mythos has High 1-B timelines/universes for instance) and the fact that even a much higher structure can encompass such dimensions within itself, insignificant as they are. Of course, if we can prove that the Nine Realms in and of themselves are space-time continuums independently then the Yggdrasil would go back to Low 1-C.

I mean for the most part the Realm Tears do that job for you. If the realms were truly not independent from the tree and shared one single past, present and future, then the Realm Tears would consume even the tree itself but it views those as lesser things so...

Also if the tree is truly a Low 2-C structure, wouldn't destroying its branch also inadvertently wipe out Asgard as well and effectively wipe out the past Odin and Thor? That's also kind of problematic IMHO.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

None of this is mentioned in Ragnarok unfortunately, and we haven't seen any secondary canon for the game come out yet that say the same. So it's a case of "WoG contradicting what is actually shown" compared to the Tree's "transcending time and space" statement. Especially if we can't find even one other hint that this Facebook post existed to begin with.

I know that, lulz. I was just messing around. Although I 100% believe that the F.B. post was real (we literally have 2 confirmations by Cory over a span of 4 years), I fully understand the site standards because of which it can't used here.

 

[Planck69]

I never got that "only inflicted minor damage" reasoning. That never made any sense.

It was back when the Yggdrasil was 2-B for its "physical form" and well, the thought of 2-B God of War gave the wiki conniptions.

Honestly, it's funny how this is the only verse that needed a disclaimer at the end of each profile that's basically "Yes, you are likely short-circuiting how, here's a blog, bye".

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

has that email been sourced?

I believe KLOL managed to find it

what would

Energy Projection

for what

Thor and Serpent splintering the tree

 

[Gasper]

That in itself isn't enough proof though, even in our own universe, regions with different time flows aren't exactly nonexistent.

We should probably add the statement they're alternate planes of existence from the 2018 novelization and explain how they're isolated from one another on the Yggdrasil, which is transcendent of space-time and thus, wouldn't have an overarching timeline that encompasses the Nine Realms.

Yggdrasil isn't transcended of space-time but concepts of time and space

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

It was back when the Yggdrasil was 2-B for its "physical form" and well, the thought of 2-B God of War gave the wiki conniptions.

Honestly, it's funny how this is the only verse that needed a disclaimer at the end of each profile that's basically "Yes, you are likely short-circuiting how, here's a blog, bye".

Lol yeah. I actually kinda understand that tbh.

I used to think Kratos was like Island level. I didn't know about Novels, Comics, Guides, Interviews and all that stuff.

I never knew he was this powerful.
With Ragnarok it's in your face.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Yggdrasil isn't transcended of space-time but concepts of time and space

Yeah, Freya mentions concepts like Life, Death, Fate, and Rebirth in the same dialogue. So contextually speaking, she was definitely talking about the the abstract concepts of Time and Space there. The Yggdrasil transcends that. Cory said the same thing on E-mail and reaffirmed it 4 years later on G-mail chat.

 

[Sniper670]

Yggdrasil isn't transcended of space-time but concepts of time and space

Scans

 

[KLOL506]

what would this be?

Not sure, for the most part, dimensional travel is its core mechanic but now it's shown to damage stuff. So uh...

Shouldn’t this also have Power Nullification since Thor never regenerates? He might also have some form of magic and “limited spatial” manipulation for his fight with Thor punching through time

Thor regenerates but it leaves behind a scar. Otherwise he heals from multiple spear wounds directly in the middle of the chest.

has that email been sourced?

The email address is very much real, but I haven't gotten a response myself yet.

Though I wouldn't personally use it without secondary stuff supporting it.

I know, my point is he’s a regular man and his entire timeline is unaffected despite being in Greece

I mean, the entire Pantheon itself doesn't share the same past, present or future if the stuff in the Underworld is anything to go by so uh...

Perhaps, idk if it’s about specific placement tho

It was a random hard hit after all so who knows what the real reason is.

 

[Sniper670]

Yeah, Freya mentions concepts like Life, Death, Fate, and Rebirth in the same dialogue. So contextually speaking, she was definitely talking about the the abstract concepts of Time and Space there. The Yggdrasil transcends that.

You're not serious.

Why are you fond of wanking things into oblivion?

 

[Planck69]

People were arguing that as a case for it to not be Tier 2.

Mostly because of the fact that well, Low 1-C Dragon Ball. Each universe there blatantly has its own timeline and they're objects in a bigger timeline. But this is probably not relevant here.

Prolly not given that the strike was so random and nobody even cared to look where it was being struck.

Well, I wouldn't know.

A mini-Fimbulwinter happened the day Kratos arrived in Midgard but its effects were not mentioned in any prophecy and all the realms experienced only snow, they didn't experience their own versions like in Ragnarok.

Though Fimbulwinter could be one of those cycles existing higher than the realms themselves so IDK.

Huh, I see.

Maybe its temporal dimension is not the kind we'd see on a regular spacetime continuum, but Freya's statement makes me doubt this. That and the Realm Tears.

Yes, my main point is that there is a temporal dimension. What tier it makes the Yggdrasil is to be decided.

I see.


I mean for the most part the Realm Tears do that job for you. If the realms were truly not independent from the tree and shared one single past, present and future, then the Realm Tears would consume even the tree itself but it views those as lesser things so...

Also if the tree is truly a Low 2-C structure, wouldn't destroying its branch also inadvertently wipe out Asgard as well and effectively wipe out the past Odin and Thor? That's also kind of problematic IMHO.

No. If the tree is what's Low 2-C then Asgard and the other realms are no longer their own parallel space-time continuums and are just alternate dimensions with altered time flows, which means destroying them completely is just a normal feat.

That aside, I'm just laying it out. Whether it's just Low 2-C or Low 1-C depends on how well we can prove the Nine Realms to be in and of themselves space-time continuums.

 

[KLOL506]

Yggdrasil isn't transcended of space-time but concepts of time and space

The words "concepts" weren't referenced but it's the same thing honestly. Still vague AF without further context but it implies some superiority over the realms as the cycles that sustain the realms ultimately perish themselves and return back to the tree itself.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

You're not serious.

Why are you fond of wanking things into oblivion?

Calm down. I'm just going by the context in which Freya stated that the Yggdrasil transcends Space and Time.

 

[Sniper670]

Isn't Yggdrasil already low 1C?

So uhh, why are we still trying to justify it agajn?

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Isn't Yggdrasil already low 1C?

So uhh, why are we still trying to justify it agajn?

It will be downgraded to 2-C, possibly higher.

 

[KLOL506]

Mostly because of the fact that well, Low 1-C Dragon Ball. Each universe there blatantly has its own timeline and they're objects in a bigger timeline. But this is probably not relevant here.

Fair point. That or people simply don't have the time and effort to re-do the cosmology blog all over again without shit erupting out of control. Has to be done in a civil manner sooner or later tho.

Huh, I see.

Lore and Legends Page 63

No. If the tree is what's Low 2-C then Asgard and the other realms are no longer their own parallel space-time continuums and are just alternate dimensions with altered time flows, which means destroying them completely is just a normal feat.

Hmmm. Alright.

That aside, I'm just laying it out. Whether it's just Low 2-C or Low 1-C depends on how well we can prove the Nine Realms to be in and of themselves space-time continuums.

I doubt it to be below 2-C TBF. Could just mean that Ragnarok is bigger than time itself, given that the prophecy involves the entire tree and not just the realms, and initially it was stated to bring an end to all of creation.

 

[Sniper670]

It will be downgraded to 2-C, possibly higher.

Because?

The justification of Yggdrasil on his profile shows 2A at least

 

[KLOL506]

Because?

The justification of Yggdrasil on his profile shows 2A at least

Got nuked hard by Ragnarok. Well of Urd is just a random-ass lake in Midgard. The Norns can't control fate or time, Fate doesn't even exist there, it's only they have good deduction skills and incredibly good precog.

 

[KLOL506]

Thing is tho, the realms aren't branching out from some parent timeline.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

No. If the tree is what's Low 2-C then Asgard and the other realms are no longer their own parallel space-time continuums and are just alternate dimensions with altered time flows, which means destroying them completely is just a normal feat.

Freya did say that the realms occupy the same space, and are only on different planes of existence. The novels say the same thing. Mimir says that Time flows differently across the realms. Yh, I'm beginning to think that the 9 realms are just alt. dimensions with altered time flows. Cory also calls the 9 realms "parallel dimensions which occupy the same space" on Twitter.

I doubt it to be below 2-C TBF. Could just mean that Ragnarok is bigger than time itself, given that the prophecy involves the entire tree and not just the realms, and initially it was stated to bring an end to all of creation.

Except for the card game Ragnarok was never stated to be the end of all creation. Mimir said in GoW 2018 that Surtr only destroys Asgard, and that's what he did in Ragnarok. The mural which says "death and rebirth of the universe" could also be referring to just Asgard.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Because?

The justification of Yggdrasil on his profile shows 2A at least

The Well of Urd is just a random lake where the Norns live in GoW : R. It got retconned. The Norns don't even have fate manipulation by the way. They are just very good at predicting future based on the choices made by people.

The "transcending Space and Time" statement means nothing without further context. And we got none of that in GoW : R, unfortunately.

The 9 realms seem more likely to be just parallel dimensions occupying the same space, rather than full-fledged universes. Yeah, GoW : R had a lot of characters scaling to the Yggdrasil but it downgraded the cosmology as a whole.

The Yggdrasil shouldn't be 2-C I.M.O. It should be more of low 2-C.

 

[KLOL506]

Freya did say that the realms occupy the same space, and are only on different planes of existence. The novels say the same thing. Mimir says that Time flows differently across the realms. Yh, I'm beginning to think that the 9 realms are just alt. dimensions with altered time flows. Cory also calls the 9 realms "parallel dimensions which occupy the same space" on Twitter.

Here's the thing, I'd argue the realms are more so like separate spacetime continuums that just so happen to share the same overarching timeline that wraps them up. Kinda like a hypertimeline, which from what I hear can be potentially 4-D without enroaching Low 1-C territory.

Except for the card game Ragnarok was never stated to be the end of all creation. Mimir said in GoW 2018 that Surtr only destroys Asgard, and that's what he did in Ragnarok. The mural which says "death and rebirth of the universe" could also be referring to just Asgard.

Except there is no rebirth of Asgard in Ragnarok.

 

[Sniper670]

Wasn't secondary material meant to give MORE info.

They're just going into detail that Ragnarok skipped no?

 

[KLOL506]

The 9 realms seem more likely to be just parallel dimensions occupying the same space, rather than full-fledged universes.

The Yggdrasil shouldn't be 2-C I.M.O. It should be more of low 2-C.

Not too sure about this, Realm Tears put a wrench into this.

That and there's always the idea of a bigger overarching timeline containing those other smaller timelines. Kinda like DC in a way.

 

[KLOL506]

And DT did state you can have a hypertimeline and still be Tier 2, as far as the DB thread on this topic went with this comment.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Not too sure about this, Realm Tears put a wrench into this.

That and there's always the idea of a bigger overarching timeline containing those other smaller timelines. Kinda like DC in a way.

It's not necessary for the realm tears to affect all of the realms just because they are holes in reality. Their A.O.E. (Area Of Effect) may only extend to a single realm. And heck, we don't even know if the realm tears threaten the realms' existence because they can destroy them, or simply because they serve as a gateway for an army of foes who'd take over the realm. I mean, if I say "the U.S. threatens India", that doesn't necessarily mean that the U.S. is actively destroying India.

 

[KLOL506]

It's not necessary for the realm tears to affect all of the realms just because they are holes in reality. Their A.O.E. (Area Of Effect) may only extend to a single realm. And heck, we don't even know if the realm tears threaten the realms' existence because they can destroy them, or simply because they serve as a gateway for an army of foes who'd take over the realm.

The realm tears are literally called to be actual holes in the fabric of reality itself. Without this fabric, the realms don't exist, period. Even Freya told Atreus of the shitstorm he brought everyone in with Garm threatening to literally eat the fabric of the realms. The guidebooks don't state their threat to be because of those foes.

I mean, if I say "the U.S. threatens India", that doesn't necessarily mean that the U.S. is actively destroying India.

That isn't remotely comparable to what we have here. One is conquering, another is wiping a realm out of existence.

 

[KLOL506]

Also my point was not about the Realm Tears spreading out. They don't go beyond the individual realm, but that's not the point. The point is, if Yggdrasil did have the timelines connected, all other realms would suffer because of these tears since the realms threaten both space and time. But these tears affect only one realm. We know the AoE isn't limited because then they'd just be affecting the dimensions of the realms, but we know it's not just 3-D space because this involves time itself as well. Which would affect Yggdrasil as a whole in tandem.