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I do not reject that her existence is 5D but that does not make her Low 1-c.
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God of War: Ascended Athena Upgrade
- Thread starter Planck69
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Brother, the power part is handled in the first clip, the existence part is elaborated upon in the second.
She has both going for her.
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It just simply does. Her AP scales.
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That's exactly how Cory worded it. Georr is indeed correct.
Georredannea15
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She's power already comes from the higher dimensional plane from which she evolved. Cory explains this in detail.
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- #127
It's qualitative superiority in the sense that no matter the extent of the physical world, she's above them in plane and just ascending to that level granted her power beyond everyone else. This including countless (if the fact that even nominally famous legends and stories are worlds unto themselves) 4-dimensional beings, realms, magical energies etc. Even the Yggdrasil, which transcends space and time in the sense of being independent of either such aspects is beneath this plane and thus. her.
Not to mention how her power can't really be sensed or measured by Kratos anymore despite the latter being able to do so to any such being before, even with Athena pointing out her Olympian appearance belies her new level of being.
I won't push if even this isn't enough but thought I'd explain it in depth.
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Eh then seems sense
Georredannea15
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In addition, Athena said that her appearance is deceiving.
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- #130
That's what I meant with the last addition.
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To make my disagreement clear (before being misunderstood), I would like to express my stance.
The main evidence supporting the premise is the character's ascension to a higher level of existence, resulting in a different form. Personally, I interpret this as Higher Dimensional Existence.
Additionally, I have reservations about considering the author's interpretations as definitive, especially when this additional information was not presented in the original lore. This is why I refer to the interview rather than the official lore.
Furthermore, the term “power” is ambiguous and can encompass various meanings. In this context, it does not specifically refer to attack potency.
The author himself mentioned that gods are often portrayed as metaphors or stories to represent "absolute control." This is why I believe it is the interpretation that requires fewer assumptions when considering his opinion on this particular scene.
Based on the evidence I have seen, there is no apparent qualitative superiority established in the given context.
In addition, regarding the comment from Planck...
Most statements of superiority wouldn't suffice to reach qualitative superiority, even if applied to already being infinitely stronger than the baselines for the level.
The main evidence supporting the premise is the character's ascension to a higher level of existence, resulting in a different form. Personally, I interpret this as Higher Dimensional Existence.
Additionally, I have reservations about considering the author's interpretations as definitive, especially when this additional information was not presented in the original lore. This is why I refer to the interview rather than the official lore.
Furthermore, the term “power” is ambiguous and can encompass various meanings. In this context, it does not specifically refer to attack potency.
The author himself mentioned that gods are often portrayed as metaphors or stories to represent "absolute control." This is why I believe it is the interpretation that requires fewer assumptions when considering his opinion on this particular scene.
Based on the evidence I have seen, there is no apparent qualitative superiority established in the given context.
In addition, regarding the comment from Planck...
The inability to detect her power could be considered a favorable aspect of her HDE nature, whether it stems from incorporeality or some form of deception, as she subtly hinted later on.
Most statements of superiority wouldn't suffice to reach qualitative superiority, even if applied to already being infinitely stronger than the baselines for the level.
It is not enough. Specially from those statements.
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cory said that kratos is physically equivalent to athena, so your reason for rejecting him is not correct.
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Which Kratos is he talking about and where? Also how is this relevant to Athena's own nature?
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Athena becomes more higher-dimensional than anything else in the Greek world, including the Primordials who are 4D.
You need to know the context of the series to understand this. Everything Cory says in the interview indicates that Athena has a higher dimensional power than anyone else in every sense.
As a note, Athena is not only higher dimensional from the Greek World, but also from the Ygdrassil and Norse World.
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Cory said this about PoH in his interview and they already used this argument in a crt
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It goes a bit beyond that as mentioned in the first clip of Cory. This higher level of existence grants her higher power and it messes her up.
What do you mean "not presented in the original lore"? Athena deadass states this: "My sacrifice to save Zeus has brought me to a higher existence".
Cory literally just elaborates further on something already established (Which was a little vague at first) and gives it more detail. It does not contradict anything in the series.
Not in this case, "power" here means not just AP, but all your other capabilities as well. This has been hammered down as a core facet of GoW and its powers for quite a long time.
Yes, but that doesn't imply it's limited to just representing "absolute control"
Noted.
Noted.
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Link? Because in the OP I can see that there's only those two links of Cory elaborating about Athena and Athena alone, even in the old CRT where we got HDE for Athena.
Either way, it shouldn't matter, not relevant to the thread at hand.
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I mean, it's not just a vague "above the world" but rather her power and plane are also above and beyond space-time itself as well as the beings beyond even that.
This is just an unnecessary point. Cory Barlog is elaborating on something that's left vague and mysterious in the games themselves. It's neither in reference to a leading question, a completely new addendum (Athena verbatim says she ascended to a higher plane of existence in the game itself), all Cory Barlog did was elaborate that her power grew as well), nor does it contradict the series.
.....It's just power that went to her head. In the same sense that the power the gods have goes to their heads. Power that has nothing to do with authority in this context seeing as that's not what Athena gains over anything upon entering that plane.
I mean, fair. I just had to address the above reasons for posterity.
The fact that dimensionality has no bearing on power sensing aside, she just says that judging her by appearance is wrong. Deception on her power isn't ever confirmed as far as I'm aware.
Georredannea15
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"Power can be interpreted differently" No. It cannot be interpreted differently here. The Cory Barlog in question says he has power equivalent to the plane from which Athena ascended. This cannot be interpreted any other way, if there is a 5-D force involved.
Georredannea15
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That's why I asked those who don't know the verse not to comment too much.
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Well, that's conceivable.
Here power can only be in haxs so like Athena only gain 5D HDE and haxs.
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dude cory's interview is already on crt if you watch the video you can see it. dread said hde, and in response I said that even if that was the case, kratos should be low1c because it would physically scale to his hde.
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Planck, I and Georr already elaborated why this isn't the case.
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Which once again, has nothing to do with attack potency. It is false equivalence.
The context is clear, it is not my problem if OP lacked to add more evidences.
No, and he did not indicate that.
This is the definition of HDE, yap.
There are two videos, one is “lore” or original lore, and one is the author interpreting the lore. “the power” one is from the latter.
It is not about contradiction, KLOL. We also don't take those as canon or valid in our scaling if they are additional information.
Unless there are more instances, more evidences, more context that Planck forget to add with it's their respective evidence, I think the power here refers to absolute control.
Correct, it is not limited, but the sense of his interpretation gave me this impression.
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Not being a supporter doesn't bar you from debating here, else most staff wouldn't be able to vote as well. She offered her reasoning, even if I disagree with it. Let's respect that.
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What are you talking about?
We literally do.
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I mean, sure.
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I don't know if we're failing to explain, but Athena's power comes from the realm she ascended to. And if you take the realm she ascended to as 5D, you have to take the high power she gained there as 5D.
I will quote what I wrote earlier;
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- #151
We absolutely do use Word of God, if it fits all the standards, which this does.
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LMFAO what, we absolutely do, read the Editing Rules page and its Referencing Statistics section:
- "When a statement from a character, guidebook, or even word of god contradicts what occurs in the series, they won't be used. For example, if an author says that a character from his work is incapable of shattering planets, even though it has destroyed galaxies on-screen, we will always go with the latter, rather than the former. The statement need to be consistent with what has been revealed within the fictional franchise itself. Otherwise, it will be considered invalid."
- "Author statements will only be accepted when they clarify what has been shown or implied in the series itself, and will be rejected when they contradict what has been shown to the audience. Statements that technically do not contradict anything shown in the series will still be rejected if there is no evidence that they are accurate."
We have already explained our disagreement regarding this but it seems neither of us will budge on this. Let's agree to disagree.
I guess that is ultimately your opinion.
Georredannea15
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I mean, more careful reading of the arguments put to the OP, that's my only request. So I won't take users too seriously. And I will not answer.
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I can't to respond to everything, but I will try to respectfully to address them.
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Which is why I opened that comment by saying that if we want to consider it Game Mechanic, Outlier or PIS I am fine with it. The comment was more on the general idea that a Tier 2 can somehow survive a Low 1-C attack without being of that Tier in durability, which is wrong, but I can understand it being an Outlier in the context of the series. Anyways, I already dropped the argument, so this will be my last comment on the matter.
Going back to the topic, I don't think a character can be a higher dimension than 4-D and still being 4-D, especially if this statement is used in the context of GoW where is made pretty clear that she is just above everything in the verse. Arceus's Avatar, for example, is 5-D without clear statements of qualitative superiority, but for statements similiar to Ascended Athena. I can see why some people can find it iffy, but I personally think it's consistent given that no one else would scale to that rating apart from few characters.
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Georr, I think you've done enough to contribute to the discussion, and that's more than appreciated. Now we can just leave this in the hands of staff, for Dread's opinion is just one among many.
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- #157
I thought the Arceus comparison was off-hand but I checked out of curiosity and it's legitimately the same sort of situation as Athena -_-.
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Bruh.
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