Gilgamesh vs 2B

[CivilProtectiom]

Meh id like to think 2B's pod with its long range capabilities such as the gatling gun and missles and shield creation would give 2B a long range and defensive advantage. Since both 2B and their pod are machines id think their superior analytical skill and intelligence might have them pull off a strategy victory. Many enemies in the Nier: AUtomata game such as Gru where defeated thanks to superior strategy not fighting skills.

To counter invisible weapons merely use her pods shield creation. Her time manipulation slows her opponent while she remains at normal speeds so she can hit them. Flying does matter since 2B does have her flight unit which may i addd is massively ftl so Gils flight means squat as 2B's slight units has ranged and close ranged attacks. But i know speed is equalized but still

LOng range combat means a stomp match for 2B since she has an obvious edge and her dodging hax and shield creation via her pod render a lot og Gils attack moot. And her intelligence and superior analytical skill also gives her a strategy win. Oh and remember the longer the fight goes on the lower chances of a Gilgamish win since he has limited stamina while 2B does not.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Really a gattling gun and missles how is that supposed to give her an advantage? They won't matter against Gil's auto defensors and shields one of which can block Excalibur. Gil should also technically have the original Rho Aias as well which means none of her ranged weapons will do anything. Gil can use his space freezing weapons to freeze her in place preventing her from dodging because it's apparently aoe and he has many more space cleaving weapons. How strong is her shield? Can it withstand a basically omnidirectional barrages of mountain busting weapons that won't end? Also doesn't matter how much she dodges Gil has a bunch of homing weapons.

Also not sure how her manipulation functions they might get cancelled by Gil's magic resistance from his armour.

SNI>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Anything 2B can think of ever, Gil's stamina is only limited by his mana consumption and GoB has very low mana consumption.

 

[DaFritzi]

According to his profile F/SN and F/zero Gilgamesh do not have resistance to time manipulation (If that is incorrect please make a content revision and update his page).

Anyways now to my thoughts on the fight.

Reasons for 2B:

- 2Bs time manip automatically slows down any incoming ranged attack to near halt. This will make the sword spam of GoB practically useless. And since the time slow is not directed at Gil this will work no matter if he has his pendant or not.

- Greater physical strength giving her the upper hand in close combat

- Enkidu has greatly reduced durability against 2B as she has no divinity (they are practically normal chains)

- 3 pods that are attacking and analyzing the opponent (gravity manip, time slow, binding with chains, attacking with weapons)

- Great variety of offensive and defensive hax (invulnerability, teleportation, resurrection, damage absorption, damage reflection, barrier creation, ...)

- In character Gil is quite arrogant and tends to hold back his strongest abilities/weapons (ea, SNI, vimana, auto-defensor). This could potentially allow 2B to claim a quick victory before Gil starts using his full arsenal.

- Virtually inexhaustible stamina that should prove helpful should the fight get drawn out

Reasons for Gil:

- More experience

- The destructive power of enuma elish (even limited to 7-A still a potent threat)

- Clairvoyance/Precognition with SNI

- A great variety of powerful weapons (although he can barely use most of them)

- Auto-defensor utilizises lightning, which does high damage against androids like 2B

All in all a very good match-up. Nonetheless my vote for 2B (High dif with Gil having time manip resistance, mid dif without). Main Reasons: Gil's Arrogance and 2Bs time stop against ranged attacks.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

2B still can't do anything if space around her is frozen preventing her from dodging the incoming barrage of laser beams, space shattering weapons,Regenerationn negating weapons and homing weapons, Gil can also shoot lighting through GoB or blast her with Ea. How will she even be able to kill him with his defensors, shields and golden armour? Gil was also super arrogant in Strange Fake yet still used his auto defensors.

EDIT: Honestly since this is fate stay night/zero Gil he probability of him jobbing is very high due to his arrogance but he can easily kill her due to his space freezing and shattering weapons negating her ability to dodge and his energy attacks in the form of laser beams and lightning, so I'm giving this to him with High Difficulty if he was blood lusted it would be Mid difficulty.

 

[DaFritzi]

@Ramses Where does the freeze space thing come from? F/SN/Zero Gil doesn't have it listed in his profile. Also the only space shattering weapon that F/SN/Zero Gil has access to is ea, the others are, according to his profile, only used by CCC Gil.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

There are weapons Gilgamesh apparently has access to through his GoB, but aren't in his profile, I think.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

@DaFritzi Why would you assume that Gil's near endless vault is different in CCC compared to normal? Anyway his space freezing ice sword was used in the Fate route on Day 14, Gil's profile in general is slightly outdated.

 

[DaFritzi]

Idk how much CCC is canon to the original. Weapons he uses in CCC do not necessarily need to be in his canon inventory.

Anyways 2Bs teleport can help her get out of the frozen space.

Edit: That Ice Sword should be added to his profile. A power like that should not be missing.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

CCC is canon to nasuverse. Also why are you assuming Gil only has one space shattering weapon namely the axe when his canon inventory is virtually all weapon noble phantasms and their prototypes. He should possess countless more space shattering weapons and other space twisting weapons that are similar to things like Caladbolg II since Gil owns the original of everything. Also Gil uses the Golden Axe in Fate/GO anyway.

If she gets forzen in space Gil binds her with Enkidu to prevent her teleportation before unloading the laser beams, lightning and his other space shattering weapons on her.

 

[DaFritzi]

Enkidu is first and foremost an anti-divine weapon. Against someone with no divinity like 2B it is practically nothing more than simple chains. As far as I know the ability to prevent teleportation was never shown while binding a non divine being.

Also no matter how many weapons Gil's arsenal has we cannot assume any of their abilities unless he used them, is stated to have them or they are shown to exist as another heros noble phantasm (Also Gils profile states that he can hardly use most of his weapons, which makes most Noble Phantasms much less effective when wielded by him).

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Gilgamesh did use Merodach's ability which is similar to Excalibur's blast.

 

[Schnee_One]

Are you seriously using CCC Gil as an argument?

Fate CCC Gilgamesh can shoot omnidirectional, has multiple golden weapons that shut down healing, is actually GOOD in CQC, and not only that, you're making assumptions that he has more weapons rather then facts, and PLEASE give me a scan on the ice sword.

Different versions should never be an argument.

 

[Schnee_One]

That pretty much seals the deal for me on this fight.
Also, about BB crossing Infinite distance as her NP, bring that up in a content revision man.

To be honest, I haven't played the entire Extra CCC so I don't know the whole context of quotes I have. I can write them if someone is willing to examine and discuss them.

Message Repouzan, he's a Fate expert.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Different versions is an argument here due to both of you ignoring how an ability works by using stupid arguments like "only CCC Gil has those weapons" and "we cannot assume any of their abilities because he never used them"..... Great. Firstly who says that only CCC Gil can use omnidirectional blade spam attacks when he literally did that against Shirou and in strange fake?

And Why wouldn't he have the golden weapons when he basically has all the weapon noble phantasms and their prototypes? And Gil literally uses the Axe in Grand Order... Why can't we assume that he more space shattering weapons when his treasury is nigh infinite and already contains weapons that can freeze or shatter space. Gil can use his noble phantasms passive abilities which is why he can use for example the space freezing sword. What it means that he can't use them is that he can't use most of his weapons as proper weapons for example he can't use Gae Bolgs anti unit causality manipulation thrust attack but he can still shoot Gae Bolg and use it's healing negation ability.

Also Gil is good in CQC the only reason Shirou beat him was because after his fight with Archer Emiya he gained his skills and Gil lost his composure against him so stop spouting nonsense please.

 

[Schnee_One]

Different versions is an argument here due to both of you ignoring how an ability works by using stupid arguments like "only CCC Gil has those weapons" and "we cannot assume any of their abilities because he never used them"..... Great. Firstly who says that only CCC Gil can use omnidirectional blade spam attacks when he literally did that against Shirou and in strange fake?
And Why wouldn't he have the golden weapons when he basically has all the weapon noble phantasms and their prototypes? And Gil literally uses the Axe in Grand Order... Why can't we assume that he more space shattering weapons when his treasury is nigh infinite and already contains weapons that can freeze or shatter space. Gil can use his noble phantasms passive abilities which is why he can use for example the space freezing sword. What it means that he can't use them is that he can't use most of his weapons as proper weapons for example he can't use Gae Bolgs anti unit causality manipulation thrust attack but he can still shoot Gae Bolg and use it's healing negation ability.

Also Gil is good in CQC the only reason Shirou beat him was because after his fight with Archer Emiya he gained his skills and Gil lost his composure against him so stop spouting nonsense please.

No it's because you yourself mentioned said weapons while debating about it, not because we're ignoring it.

Because assumptions mean nothing in the long run, we're not going to assume Gilgamesh has more weapons until we actually see it, this is the same thing we argue with One Punch Man fans, assumptions mean nothing feats and showing mean everything.

That's literally he whole point behind fighting in a sword fight, losing your composure is Gil's fault and his fault only, losing your composure is not an excuse.

None of Archer's abilities matter in a sword fight at all, he's an Archer after all, also, Shirou himself received limited training from Saber and managed to hold his own and even overwhelm Gil, so please don't tell us we're spouting nonsense I don't want to waste my time with a meaningless argument, this is a debate.

I once again ask for a scan of the ice sword.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

"you're making assumptions that he has more weapons rather then facts"

How GoB works Gil accesses his near infinite vault containing virtually anything including noble phantasms and their prototypes, has shown weapons that cleave space and

freezes space. Yet you still think that Gil only has 2 weapons that affect space............

 

[Blanked]

Gargoyle don't quote large blocks of text.

 

[Schnee_One]

He same reason we don't assume Saitama is far beyond planet level despite being far stronger.

That's a bit vague, should be added but it doesn't show anything 2B can't handle.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Space freezing sword still freezes space so she will not be moving to dodge. Teleport is viable but it has a short range. This is not the same as one punch man, Gil's ability is the ability to have all noble phantasm weapons and their prototypes, which would include all weapons that can shatter or freeze space because he would have the origin of the weapons that do it and the younger versions all leading up to the newest model which he also has in his vault example being him having Merodach and Gram which are swords that are for choosing rulers.

 

[Schnee_One]

Well she has no problem slowing time to do that and then dashing out of it and using her teleport.

I know it is, that doesn't show all of Gil's weapons, punching something is Saitama's power, that doesn't show higher feats.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

"I know it is" you just contradicted yourself if Gil has a space shattering weapon he will have countless others simply by virtue of his near infinite vault and his ability to have all versions of weapon with the older weapons being stronger that is a fact and is not comparable to the one punch man problem.

 

[DaFritzi]

1) Saber retreats, covered in ice

That doesn't sound like actually freezing space. I mean the ice is frozen space and saber moves away like nothing happened?!

2) As the ice starts to break

Literally the next sentence. Seems like the ice can be broken off by physical strength, so it won't pose much of a threat since 2B is on Sabers level (likely even above fate saber)

Also for the sword to work the user has to get close.

The screenshot makes it look more like an ice sword with freezing aura, than an actual space locking hax beast.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Saber has A rank magic resistance so she negates spatial manipulation.

 

[Schnee_One]

"I know it is" you just contradicted yourself if Gil has a space shattering weapon he will have countless others simply by virtue of his near infinite vault and his ability to have all versions of weapon with the older weapons being stronger that is a fact and is not comparable to the one punch man problem.

Not really, I know it's his ability to have an incredibly large GoB, yet that doesn't change the weapons in it

....You were saying all THIS about ice covering 2B yet Saber escaped having non of the abilities 2B has? Don't make stuff up

 

[Blanked]

^magic resistance beats anything 2B has when talking about freezing.

 

[DaFritzi]

And how does that in any way prove that the sword actually freezes space? If the only instance of it being used was a fail.

The statement is more likely to simply mean that whereever the sword goes ice is created.

 

[Schnee_One]

^magic resistance beats anything 2B has when talking about freezing.

I highly doubt it beats a teleport and time manipulation, but that's true.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

I fail to see how, it's stated that "the space the sword goes through freezes" Saber then retreats covered in ice and they have already established that magic resistance negates spatial manipulation as seen against Medea. Nothing points to it simply being a freezing aura otherwise it wouldn't have a space freezing statement...

 

[DaFritzi]

Sabers magic resistance surely helped her against the freezing, but that doesn't change the fact that the sword is very likely just a powerful freezing aura ice sword, and not some spatial hax tool.

Also 2B is physically much stronger than saber, so breaking off that ice should definitely be possible.

EDIT: The space the sword goes through freezes. Could simply and quite possibly be flowery language for "the molecules within the space the sword goes through freezes".

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

You just ignored my entire argument....

 

[Schnee_One]

We really do need to wait for heaven's feel to get a full idea of the sword.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

This is the fate route not heavens feel

 

[Schnee_One]

I know, but this is Fate Stay Night, I doubt they'll have any trouble showing off the sword, though them realizing it exists is unlikely.

 

[NotEvenHuman]

Gil doesn't do anything in Heaven's Feel.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

But it's not though it has no reason for that Medea has spatial manipulation and Sabers magic resistance negated it, establishing that spatial manipulation is a thing and the ice sword mentions that it's freezing space that it cuts not that it is simply freezing the air.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Gil doesn't do anything in Heaven's Feel.

He jobs as usual lul

 

[NotEvenHuman]

Harder than usual, actually. At least he won some fights on the other routes, lol.

 

[DaFritzi]

Type moon wikia lists the ability of the sword as "allowing it to cover the target in ice even if they managed to dodge the actual strike".

Full description: "A Sword of Ice that freezes the space that it cuts, allowing it to cover the target in ice even if they managed to dodge the actual strike."

But I'll stop arguing here as this ice sword isn't going to change my opinion on the outcome of that battle. Maybe some fate veteran is going to stop by some time soon and give his opinion on the matter to resolve this case.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Type moon wikia is inaccurate for a lot of things.

 

[Schnee_One]

But it's accurate for even more.