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open yo third eye. i mean if we dont get tier 0 yog i belive high 1-A+ is the next best thing tbh.Im a little skeptical if you say arceus High 1A+
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open yo third eye. i mean if we dont get tier 0 yog i belive high 1-A+ is the next best thing tbh.Im a little skeptical if you say arceus High 1A+
addedMy discord is the exact same as my vsbattles username anyways, so just add me there tbh
Yeah, if it's not Tier 0 I always assumed it's High 1-A+ Yog anyways lmaoopen yo third eye. i mean if we dont get tier 0 yog i belive high 1-A+ is the next best thing tbh.
Tier 0 is pretty much clear. We just need staff votes to publish her profile page. Ultima is currently neutral. At this rate, it's gonna take forever to get this evaluated. Since it's tier 0 thread, it's hard to continue without Ultima. We're basically stuck hereI agree for Yog Sotthoth’s true form being tier 0.
I know, I’m just stating my mind and argument.Tier 0 is pretty much clear. We just need staff votes to publish her profile page. Ultima is currently neutral. At this rate, it's gonna take forever to get this evaluated. Since it's tier 0 thread, it's hard to continue without Ultima. We're basically stuck here
Will anyone tell me thoughts on this? So We can Make Some Profiles for GGZ people?Okay again The other gods don't matter for this thread imo we can worry about them later.
I provided a theory tier for how it would work but don't think anyone responded to it.
Option A = Tier 0 is accepted
True form yog = tier 0
azathoth? = High 1-A+
Thanatos = ~1-A - high 1-A
zeus = 1-A
dreamland = ~low 1-A - 1-A
Option B tier 0 is rejected and 1-A is fine until we get more info for higher
Thanatos > zeus > concept
so Low 1-A there
1-A with azathoth, yog
then dreamland 2-A to low 1-A (gotta do some more research on the world lines, dreams, and how the dreamland continent works)
other options if can be decided of course but this my current thoughts. Babylon, wonderland, the outerspace, the colored gates, and any random other thing we can decide in a different thread or make a ggz general thread to discuss those scalign to make a crt + profile for them. but i feel we've gonna off topic as this was just for tier 0 yog and now we gonna and done some weird thing by showing the other gods and what not. ik they are relevant to the scaling of the outer gods but they can be decided later date.
I think personally for now low 1-A would be better then tier 0 but overall i am fine if tier 0 gets accepted or not so just gonna wait for ultima
But changed his stance back to neutral after counter arguments arise.From what I can gather: Existence here is entirely defined by language, definition, and description, which provides a framework for reality and determines distinctions. Yog-Sothoth is beyond all those things and therefore beyond all boundaries and distinctions, which it sets in place to begin with.
The little story about the Tao seems to confirm that with the statement of "The name that can be named is not the eternal name," followed by "the name that can be named" being stated to be born from Yog-Sothoth's bubbles (i.e. Its power of definition). The story about the Buddha reiterates the same thing by saying a Bodhisattva has to leave behind all the marks of selfness and otherness, and eventually leave behind even the Dharma itself, since it is just a "raft" meant to lead you to what is ultimately ineffable. That, and the bit about all conditioned phenomena being illusions and etc.
Ultima said tier 0 is enough with statements fron entry about divine power of god and Tao stuffs is just supporting that fact more. But I think Tao is more important than Ultima think. Honkai Cosmology has multiple statements about Tao, Ying and Yang. Tao being the essence of all things, ying yang being two fundamental forces. It's pretty clear that Taoism concept is not just random stories but actual cosmology structure. Even Babylon is stated to have ying and yang."This World behind the door, where time and space have come to a standstill, has only wisdom remaining."
Moreover, Yog Sothoth doesn't give powers to others. She only gives wisdom to them. All of her voicelines also suggests, she only gives wisdom to them. So giving out powers is also false. Then what entry 5 is for? It's for explaining the divine power of Yog Sothoth to us, readers. So, before making counter arguments about entry 5, mind about the meta fictional aspect of that.You, for example, are looking at this line of text, and as I am, looking at you through this line of text.
good jobHere is the summary of the whole thread, its problems and conclusions for administrators to evaluate.
- Ultima agreed with Tier 0
But changed his stance back to neutral after counter arguments arise.
- Counter arguments
Yog Sothoth existing in the place where time and space stand still
People can access the place beyond space and time, can create all things using divine power of Yog Sothoth (multiplicity of tier 0)
Yog Sothoth belonging to Babylon academy and babylon academy is composed of faiths and other godheads are stated as strongest in babylon instead of Yog Sothoth
The Mother gave birth to Outer God
Yog Sothoth description stated this which leads to the argument of existing in a place where time and space exists thus being beyond space and time is wrong.
Ultima said tier 0 is enough with statements fron entry about divine power of god and Tao stuffs is just supporting that fact more. But I think Tao is more important than Ultima think. Honkai Cosmology has multiple statements about Tao, Ying and Yang. Tao being the essence of all things, ying yang being two fundamental forces. It's pretty clear that Taoism concept is not just random stories but actual cosmology structure. Even Babylon is stated to have ying and yang.
The problem above is "existing in a place where time and space have come to a standstill". Her kizuna stated that "Nameless Tao arises in the bubble and exists in the bubble". And the bubble is stated to exist behind the door. Entry 5 stated bubble is just something Yog Sothoth likes and is a metaphorical device. So, it's safe to assume Tao comes from Yog Sothoth. The Tao exists behind the door which is the same door that people can see when they are about to be granted wisdom by Yog Sothoth.
In Taoism, Wuji is the un-manifest aspect of Tao. While both Tao and Wuij are equally valued, Wuji is the Tao in stillness. Taiji is the Tao is movement. The biography description said "where time and space have come to a standstill" and it's behind the door and only wisdom (Yog Sothoth) remaining. So, it's not talking about Yog Sothoth existing in a place where space-time still exists but rather talking about how the world behind the door is Wuji where the movement doesn't exist.
Ultima said if Wuji is decipted correctly, it's tier 0. Actuallyspaceman also said it can be tier 0 but due to the emergence of Taiji (movement), it can't be tier 0. But here it's stated that Yog Sothoth exists where time and space have come to a standstill (no movement). It's further enhancing the fact of Yog Sothoth being Tier 0.
You might say using external sources of Taosim should be invalid becuz Wuji is never mentioned in the story. But the entry 2 directly referenced Tao Te Ching and even used the same words. It should be valid.
Entry 5 is pretty tricky to handle since it's a meta fictional. The unique thing about Entry 5 is, it's not talking to a person inside the fiction but directly talking the reader as the line suggests. We have to accept that this line alone destroyed the argument of people being able to reach beyond space and time and get powers.
Moreover, Yog Sothoth doesn't give powers to others. She only gives wisdom to them. All of her voicelines also suggests, she only gives wisdom to them. So giving out powers is also false. Then what entry 5 is for? It's for explaining the divine power of Yog Sothoth to us, readers. So, before making counter arguments about entry 5, mind about the meta fictional aspect of that.
Babylon is constituted with faith and also have ying and yang. All godheads in babylon are related to faith and their powers are also vary depending on the level of faith. But that rule won't apply to Outer Gods since The Mother lives outside of Babylon, Yog Sothoth True Form was never stated to exist inside Babylon. The only Outer God in Babylon is Azathoth. Even Azathoth can harm the spritiual air with her existence alone causing every godheads who came into contact with to sufffer. The Mother existence in Babylon can also destroy the balance of ying and yang. That's how much of the power difference between the godheads and outer gods. So that debunked the argument about Yog Sothoth not being the strongest in Babylon.
Yog Sothoth exists in Wuji behind the door where there's no movement of ying and yang. Babylon still has ying and yang meaning that Yog Sothoth doesn't live there.
She doesn't live in Babylon means Faith law doesn't apply to her.
This description about the mother "【The Mother, the Mother of the Stars, the larvae of the Outer Gods. She resides in a shipwreck, and controls countless tentacles.】"
The arguments about this is the mother gave birth to outer gods. But it's actually misinterpretation. The Mother is ripped off character of Star Mother.
The Larvae of Outer Gods doesn't mean The Mother gave birth to all outer gods but it's other way round. In story, Star Mother was born from the consciousness blast of Outer Gods who dance around Azathoth. That's why she is the larvae of the Outer Gods. Larvae of Outer Gods are like a group lesser Outer Gods in lovecraft overarching lore.
This is the summary of main counter arguments of this thread and its debunks. We shouldn't bump this thread anymore since the thread is pretty long already and I don't want this to disappear in that. Ultima already said he will look into this...I hope so :3