GGZ Tier 0 Yog Sothoth Upgrade

[Weaver261]

Honkai Cosmology can't be applied to Babylon (and universes before that) as there is no Honkai in that multiverse at all (this stuff is from the HG2 writer implying).
And Babylon is a totally different multiverse unlike main Honkai universe and Wonderland. There was old version which Babylon which was in the same main Honkai universe but that thing got retconned due to too much nonsense.

The Mother's kizuna stated otherwise. Babylon still have Yin and Yang.

 

[Delta333]

Those anti feats comes from unrelated assumptions like how Chronos being the oldest predates Yog Sothoth while Yog Sothoth has nothing to do with Chronos. I can just say Tao predates everything and that will still be true. As I linked the scans, Tao predates everything. That literally debunks your claims of Chronos predating Yog Sothoth. Chronos is only stated as the oldest god, not the oldest existence while Yog Sothoth Tao is stated as "Origin of all things". Also based on Taoism, Tao predates everythings and that includes Babylon and whole cosmology too which has yin yang as fundamental forces

If both feat and anti feat exist then feat should be the one that gets invalidated. Beside the scan about Tao being the essence of every being that you post is from HI3, which I believe that it's impossible for anyone to prove that it is the same Tao in GGZ.

Also tbh GGZ being the same setting as HI3 cannot even be proved since the term "imaginary tree" never appears in GGZ.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Babylon Gods doesn't exist within Hoyoverse main cosmology.

 

[Weaver261]

If both feat and anti feat exist then feat should be the one that gets invalidated

How that's an anti feat? Chronos is not even stated as oldest existence. She is stated as oldest god. Meanwhile Yog Sothoth Tao is origin of all things. It's an anti feat when the claim is correct and oppose with the feat. This is not the case here obviously.

Beside the scan about Tao being the essence of every being that you post is from HI3, which I believe that it's impossible for anyone to prove that it is the same Tao in GGZ.

Also tbh GGZ being the same setting as HI3 cannot even be proved since the term "imaginary tree" never appears in GGZ.

iirc, hi3 is a parallel universe branched from GGZ, dawei said that in a korean interview. GGZ not using imaginary tree term doesn't really mean it doesn't exist in GGZ. GGZ and HI3 have same basic concepts like imaginary space, herrschers, honkai, stigma and even the starting plotline is similar since they are in the imaginary tree. Also CEO of Mihoyo annouced Honkai Universe which showed GGZ, HI3 and Genshin Impact.

 

[Delta333]

iirc, hi3 is a parallel universe branched from GGZ, dawei said that in a korean interview.

where

 

[Weaver261]

where

Q. 전작과 주요 등장인물이 거의 동일합니다. '붕괴학원2'와 스토리 상 어떻게 연결되나요?

'붕괴3rd'와 '붕괴학원2'는 평행세계의 관계로 최초 두 개의 평행세계는 동일했습니다. '붕괴 학원2' 스토리 중반 키아나 일행이 히메코를 따라 성프레이아 학원에 도착했는데 어떤 신비한 요소의 영향으로 세계선에 변동이 일어나며 '붕괴3rd'와 '붕괴학원2'의 스토리가 나뉘게 됩니다. 기본적으로 같은 세계관에서 파생되다보니 같은 캐릭터가 상당수 등장합니다. 키아나의 아버지 지크프리트와 어머니 세실리아, 브로냐의 동생 제레 등등...

Q. The characters are almost the same as in the previous work. How are "Honkai Academy 2" and the story connected?

"Honkai 3rd" and "Honkai Academy 2" are parallel worlds. The first two parallel worlds were the same. In the middle of the story of "Honkai Academy 2," Kiana and her group arrived at Saint Freya Academy following Himiko, but due to some mysterious influence, a shift occurred in the world line, causing the stories of "Honkai 3rd" and "Honkai Academy 2" to diverge. Since they are essentially derived from the same universe, many of the same characters appear, such as Kiana's father Siegfried, her mother Cecilia, and Bronya's sister, Seele, among others.

 

[Delta333]

Doesn’t know that this Korean interview exists, I guess they share the same setting then. Still the fact the Tao in GGZ and the Tao in HI3 being impossible to be proved as one remains unchanged because the Babylon cosmology has nothing to do with the world of Honkai universe.

 

[Max20091]

Sorry, I can't quote Weaver's talk due to some sort of bug but that Korean quote is way too old (back from 2017 which they can't even know if HI3 is even parallel with HG2), not good enough to qualify as canon.
If you quote the GDC video, that thing isn't good either as the co-CEO isn't that interest with HG2 these days, you get 0 mention of HG2 in the HoYoverse anyway. If that game really exist so HoYoverse should mention them somewhere on their website.

The whole JP server got HoYoverse in their name, 0 account linking to HoYo and no HoYolab.
There's recent interview about Honkai and the Honkai (3rd or HSR) team didn't even mentioning HG2 even when the interviewer specifically asked HG2 relationship with other games. The second one in the interview, the Honkai 3rd team didn't even know that KiaMei was dead (obviously they didn't in the same team as HG2 one).

「崩壊」シリーズは、なぜ人間の可能性を信じるのか？「崩壊」シリーズのシナリオ制作陣に聞く、超絶規模の「人間讃歌」と、「世界の美しさ」を信じ続ける物語の描き方

「苦しみの真っ只中にいても、あなたに寄り添う小さな幸せが存在することを知ってほしい」

news.denfaminicogamer.jp

A bit context why KiaMei was dead in HG2 (notice the 2 characters on the sides are also dead characters).

 

[Weaver261]

Babylon cosmology has nothing to do with the world of Honkai universe.

False! You can start by giving scans that state Babylon is a complete different cosmology from Honkai Universe. Ares even know Will Of Honkai Existence. Kiana has met with Godheads. Entrance to Babylon Academy is connected to a cornor of Saint Freya Academy in the past before Otto blew it up

Korean quote is way too old (back from 2017 which they can't even know if HI3 is even parallel with HG2), not good enough to qualify as canon.

Dawei literally said "Honkai 3rd" and "Honkai Academy 2" are parallel worlds. "
How they can't know if Hi3 parallel to HG2?? Hi3 is planned to branched out from the plotline of HG2 (GGZ) becuz they already have plan to make them parallel worlds.

In other world storyline in GGZ, it's stated as such here which align with Imaginary Tree model given by Nagamitsu

“You mean… this world is a hypothetical world created by the Honkai?”
Faced with Kiana’s question, Kevin shook his head.
“In areas where the source of Honkai is strong, the original laws of nature will be disrupted and even time and space will be distorted. But this world is not a fake created by the Honkai, but a world that actually exists in the Universe.”
“What do you mean!?”
“Yes, for each different choice, a new parallel world will be generated in the universe.”
Kevin turned his head and looked at Kiana: “And this is but one of many worldlines that diverge with Kevin Kaslana’s decisions at the centre.
Everything you see is just a bubble in the tiny Universe.”

If you quote the GDC video, that thing isn't good either as the co-CEO isn't that interest with HG2 these days, you get 0 mention of HG2 in the HoYoverse anyway. If that game really exist so HoYoverse should mention them somewhere on their website.

The whole JP server got HoYoverse in their name, 0 account linking to HoYo and no HoYolab.
There's recent interview about Honkai and the Honkai (3rd or HSR) team didn't even mentioning HG2 once even when the interviewer specifically asked HG2 relationship with other games twice.

I don't understand how co-CEO not interested in HG2 these days has something to do with the world building. Your claims are getting more and more empty. Why HG2(GGZ) even need to be in the interview of HSR and HI3 collab. That doesn't make sense. HG2 already had a collab with HI3. Also interviewer asked the reoccuring themes in HG2, HI3 and HSR not about their connection as a cosmology.

-- The "Honkai" series includes many titles, such as "Honkai Academy," "Honkai 3rd," and "Honkai: Star Rail." Are there any themes or themes that run through the entire series?

 

[Weaver261]

The second one in the interview, the Honkai 3rd team didn't even know that KiaMei was dead (obviously they didn't in the same team as HG2 one).

Eh the interview you linked has no such thing mentioned in all 3 pages. And if i am not mistaken, KiaMei went to another universe to prevent honkai, not dead.

Kyuushou
But Kiana and Mei are still in another universe, preventing the collapse from happening again.
- Eye Of The Universe (Ending) : Reborn

 

[Max20091]

False! You can start by giving scans that state Babylon is a complete different cosmology from Honkai Universe. Ares even know Will Of Honkai Existence. Kiana has met with Godheads. Entrance to Babylon Academy is connected to a cornor of Saint Freya Academy in the past before Otto blew it up

Did you pull that image from the 10th anniversary joke?

Dawei literally said "Honkai 3rd" and "Honkai Academy 2" are parallel worlds. "
How they can't know if Hi3 parallel to HG2?? Hi3 is planned to branched out from the plotline of HG2 (GGZ) becuz they already have plan to make them parallel worlds.

That was he said that stuff in 2017 when he doesn't even know HI3 and HG2 were 2 totally different things.

In other world storyline in GGZ, it's stated as such here which align with Imaginary Tree model given by Nagamitsu

Where it says GGZ or HG2? Don't tell me you read the Introduction part and assume HG2, HG1 and FlyMe2TheMoon was the same thing.

I don't understand how co-CEO not interested in HG2 these days has something to do with the world building. Your claims are getting more and more empty. Why HG2(GGZ) even need to be in the interview of HSR and HI3 collab. That doesn't make sense. HG2 already had a collab with HI3. Also interviewer asked the reoccuring themes in HG2, HI3 and HSR not about their connection as a cosmology.

I don't think the world building of HG2 and HI3/HSR is the same, 99.99% CN players also not agree having HG2 in the Imaginary Tree either unless the HG2 somehow pull crazy stunt (which obviously not).
HG2 have collabs with HI3 but do you notice all of that stuffs were made by Ling Yi?
If you really want to headcanon the Imaginary Tree then you also have to explain why HI3 characters end up being godheads, not regular main universe characters (the game have filters specifically for godheads and main universe for a reason).

Also Genshin and Tears of Themis is in HG2, but not the way you think. They are in a multiverse where there is no Honkai

Eh the interview you linked has no such thing mentioned in all 3 pages. And if i am not mistaken, KiaMei went to another universe to prevent honkai, not dead.

Did you view the image above? There's no way they would list KiaMei with other 2 dead characters.
A bit spoiler: in a patch, the writer went 360 and put them in a separate character page just to indicate they are dead (the first dead one appear is on the right, the second one is on the left and the third one... you know).

 

[Weaver261]

Did you pull that image from the 10th anniversary joke?

It's still a story, it should be canon. Joke or not Ares stated "Based on the setting" means the setting of HG2 is like that. There's nothing much to explain.

That was he said that stuff in 2017 when he doesn't even know HI3 and HG2 were 2 totally different things.

Bro who are you to say that? Like you aren't even staff from Mihoyo. How can you know that Dawei doesn't know Hi3 and HG2 are different. Oh god......

Where it says GGZ or HG2? Don't tell me you read the Introduction part and assume HG2, HG1 and FlyMe2TheMoon was the same thing.

What are you even talking about??????? Otherworld storyline is from GGZ.

I don't think the world building of HG2 and HI3/HSR is the same, 99.99% CN players also not agree having HG2 in the Imaginary Tree either unless the HG2 somehow pull crazy stunt (which obviously not).
HG2 have collabs with HI3 but do you notice all of that stuffs were made by Ling Yi?
Also Genshin and Tears of Themis is in HG2, but not the way you think. They are in a multiverse where there is no Honkai

Whatever CN players think has nothing to do with current problem. They can think whatever they want. Also, if you want show percentage, at least bring up believeable statistics, don't act like you represent the whole CN community. Genshin story is still ongoing, it's not right to say genshin doesn't have honkai. HSR also don't have honkai right now. This is so ridiculous.

 

[Delta333]

If you really want to headcanon the Imaginary Tree then you also have to explain why HI3 characters end up being godheads, not regular main universe characters (the game have filters specifically for godheads and main universe for a reason).

Did you view the image above? There's no way they would list KiaMei with other 2 dead characters.

Agree with this.

 

[Weaver261]

Here is the summary of the whole thread, its problems and conclusions for administrators to evaluate.
- Ultima agreed with Tier 0

But changed his stance back to neutral after counter arguments arise.

- Counter arguments
Yog Sothoth existing in the place where time and space stand still
People can access the place beyond space and time, can create all things using divine power of Yog Sothoth (multiplicity of tier 0)
Yog Sothoth belonging to Babylon academy and babylon academy is composed of faiths and other godheads are stated as strongest in babylon instead of Yog Sothoth
The Mother gave birth to Outer God

Spoiler: My Debunks for existing in space-time

Yog Sothoth description stated this which leads to the argument of existing in a place where time and space exists thus being beyond space and time is wrong.

Ultima said tier 0 is enough with statements fron entry about divine power of god and Tao stuffs is just supporting that fact more. But I think Tao is more important than Ultima think. Honkai Cosmology has multiple statements about Tao, Ying and Yang. Tao being the essence of all things, ying yang being two fundamental forces. It's pretty clear that Taoism concept is not just random stories but actual cosmology structure. Even Babylon is stated to have ying and yang.
The problem above is "existing in a place where time and space have come to a standstill". Her kizuna stated that "Nameless Tao arises in the bubble and exists in the bubble". And the bubble is stated to exist behind the door. Entry 5 stated bubble is just something Yog Sothoth likes and is a metaphorical device. So, it's safe to assume Tao comes from Yog Sothoth. The Tao exists behind the door which is the same door that people can see when they are about to be granted wisdom by Yog Sothoth.
In Taoism, Wuji is the un-manifest aspect of Tao. While both Tao and Wuij are equally valued, Wuji is the Tao in stillness. Taiji is the Tao is movement. The biography description said "where time and space have come to a standstill" and it's behind the door and only wisdom (Yog Sothoth) remaining. So, it's not talking about Yog Sothoth existing in a place where space-time still exists but rather talking about how the world behind the door is Wuji where the movement doesn't exist.
Ultima said if Wuji is decipted correctly, it's tier 0. Actuallyspaceman also said it can be tier 0 but due to the emergence of Taiji (movement), it can't be tier 0. But here it's stated that Yog Sothoth exists where time and space have come to a standstill (no movement). It's further enhancing the fact of Yog Sothoth being Tier 0.
You might say using external sources of Taosim should be invalid becuz Wuji is never mentioned in the story. But the entry 2 directly referenced Tao Te Ching and even used the same words. It should be valid.

Spoiler: My Debunks for people being able to access the divine power of Yog Sothoth by reaching to Yog Sothoth

Entry 5 is pretty tricky to handle since it's a meta fictional. The unique thing about Entry 5 is, it's not talking to a person inside the fiction but directly talking the reader as the line suggests. We have to accept that this line alone destroyed the argument of people being able to reach beyond space and time and get powers.

Moreover, Yog Sothoth doesn't give powers to others. She only gives wisdom to them. All of her voicelines also suggests, she only gives wisdom to them. So giving out powers is also false. Then what entry 5 is for? It's for explaining the divine power of Yog Sothoth to us, readers. So, before making counter arguments about entry 5, mind about the meta fictional aspect of that.

Spoiler: My Debunk about Yog Sothoth not being the strongest godhead in Babylon

Babylon is constituted with faith and also have ying and yang. All godheads in babylon are related to faith and their powers are also vary depending on the level of faith. But that rule won't apply to Outer Gods since The Mother lives outside of Babylon, Yog Sothoth True Form was never stated to exist inside Babylon. The only Outer God in Babylon is Azathoth. Even Azathoth can harm the spritiual air with her existence alone causing every godheads who came into contact with to sufffer. The Mother existence in Babylon can also destroy the balance of ying and yang. That's how much of the power difference between the godheads and outer gods. So that debunked the argument about Yog Sothoth not being the strongest in Babylon.
Yog Sothoth exists in Wuji behind the door where there's no movement of ying and yang. Babylon still has ying and yang meaning that Yog Sothoth doesn't live there.
She doesn't live in Babylon means Faith law doesn't apply to her.

Spoiler: My Debunk for The Mother gave birth to Outer Gods

This description about the mother "【The Mother, the Mother of the Stars, the larvae of the Outer Gods. She resides in a shipwreck, and controls countless tentacles.】"
The arguments about this is the mother gave birth to outer gods. But it's actually misinterpretation. The Mother is ripped off character of Star Mother.
The Larvae of Outer Gods doesn't mean The Mother gave birth to all outer gods but it's other way round. In story, Star Mother was born from the consciousness blast of Outer Gods who dance around Azathoth. That's why she is the larvae of the Outer Gods. Larvae of Outer Gods are like a group lesser Outer Gods in lovecraft overarching lore.

This is the summary of main counter arguments of this thread and its debunks. We shouldn't bump this thread anymore since the thread is pretty long already and I don't want this to disappear in that. Ultima already said he will look into this...I hope so :3

This threads is already at 10 pages and it's derailing a lot. I will add more into the summary about everything discussed so far.

@Max20091 and @Delta333 arguments mainly revolve around Chronos being the oldest god thus predates Yog Sothoth and that disqualify Tier 0.
My debunk : Chronos is only stated as the oldest god, not the oldest existence. Meanwhile Yog Sothoth is Tao and by her virtue, she predates everything in existence.

• Door that lead to Tao is stated as "origin of all thing" Mind that the door is also a metaphor since it doesn't exist.
• Tao is the essence of all being and outcome
• Yin and Yang are two fundamental forces that govern everything in cosmo
• Babylon also has yin and yang

Yog Sothoth being the Tao predates everything in existence. Chronos's story has no relation to Yog Sothoth or Babylon at all. Chronos is currently at mortal world living among mortals.

Another claims they made was GGZ doesn't share the cosmology as Hi3, HSR and Genshin.
My debunk: Mihoyo CEO said GGZ and HI3 are parallel worlds branching from the same storyline. Co-CEO of Mihoyo also showed GGZ as part of Honkai Universe. Even the parallel worlds model is the same idea as Hi3.
In other world storyline in GGZ, it's stated as such here which align with Imaginary Tree model given by Nagamitsu

“You mean… this world is a hypothetical world created by the Honkai?”
Faced with Kiana’s question, Kevin shook his head.
“In areas where the source of Honkai is strong, the original laws of nature will be disrupted and even time and space will be distorted. But this world is not a fake created by the Honkai, but a world that actually exists in the Universe.”
“What do you mean!?”
“Yes, for each different choice, a new parallel world will be generated in the universe.”
Kevin turned his head and looked at Kiana: “And this is but one of many worldlines that diverge with Kevin Kaslana’s decisions at the centre.
Everything you see is just a bubble in the tiny Universe.”

Their debunks for this is about how CEO doesn't know GGZ and Hi3 aren't parallel. Like what? No offense but who they are to say for the sake of CEO of mihoyo?? About how 99.99% CN community doesn't agree with GGZ and HI3 being parallel while not showing any believeable statistics. (99.99% what is this? Soap ads? xD)
Later on, their arguments become more baseless and empty as you can see here and here
@Max20091 managed the fan wiki but has little ideas of how power scaling work. I talked with them in their discord server and that's what they said.

A bit confusing but it's like this: Yog have infinite power. Ares have the best infinite power (by output more infinite power than others)

I hope this helps in understanding the thread better for staffs. Tier 0 is already clear and outright, agreed by multiple staffs with no staff disagree so far. I will update this when this thread get derailed again

 

[Weaver261]

Did you view the image above? There's no way they would list KiaMei with other 2 dead characters.
A bit spoiler: in a patch, the writer went 360 and put them in a separate character page just to indicate they are dead (the first dead one appear is on the right, the second one is on the left and the third one... you know).

Holy sheet..what is this assumption??? Just because they were put in a seperate character page with some dead characters mean they are dead too? Omg T - T
The story clearly stated they aren't dead. They just went to another universe bruh.

Kyuushou
But Kiana and Mei are still in another universe, preventing the collapse from happening again.
- Eye Of The Universe (Ending) : Reborn

 

[Woomica]

just upload profile and proceed further in life

 

[GarrixianXD]

I suppose the profile can be considered to be posted if Ant agrees with this.

@Antvasima Thoughts?

Edit: nvm, I didn't notice you already made your stance.

 

[Max20091]

Holy sheet..what is this assumption??? Just because they were put in a seperate character page with some dead characters mean they are dead too? Omg T - T

At least there is proof that assume KiaMei is dead (I take this from the profile display tho that one doesn't have text) while your "HG2 have imaginary tree" have no solid proof.
Someone else is actually asking for KiaMei profile then here it is:

Spoiler: KiaMei profile

Since you say "HG2 have imaginary tree" then you have to explain how can HI3 characters end up being godheads instead of main universe character in HG2.
Edit: Find something recently, that 2017 stuff is extremely outdated at this point.
Edit 2: I found this thing interesting, someone mentioned CN fan did asked HoYo about HG2 connection to HI3 and they avoided answering.

 

[Weaver261]

Edit 2: I found this thing interesting, someone mentioned CN fan did asked HoYo about HG2 connection to HI3 and they avoided answering

Source?

 

[Delta333]

Delta and Max seem to make sense to me here. This seems far too uncertain for a Tier 0 statistic.

It’s worth to note that currently Ant disagrees with tier 0.

 

[Delta333]

I have some more reasons to disagree with tier 0 but this thread already become a mess so it’s better to save them in another thread in case her profile is accepted, so for now I will just focus on arguments that are made in this thread.

 

[Max20091]

Source?

Livestreams in HI3 CN official channel are highly controversial stuffs and get deleted as soon as they end the stream, will need someone with decent Chinese to pull it (not me).

 

[Weaver261]

Livestreams in HI3 CN official channel are highly controversial stuffs and get deleted as soon as they end the stream, will need someone with decent Chinese to pull it (not me).

Well, whether it's true or not, not answering the question doesn't really mean GGZ and HI3 are not set in the same cosmology. Both CEO stated they are in the same Honkai universe and parallel to each other. I think we should end this here since there's nothing that can back your claims.

 

[NothingToDebateWith]

Also Genshin and Tears of Themis is in HG2, but not the way you think. They are in a multiverse where there is no Honkai

Yet GI and HG2 somewhat collabs with HI3, aight fam..

 

[Voidnether]

Talk about canonicity elsewhere or y'all can make a new thread about it, clogging it up with the Tier 0 thread isn't really the best way..

 

[Popcaliana]

Weren't hoyo games known for its numerous mistranslations?

 

[Voidnether]

Weren't hoyo games known for its numerous mistranslations?

I mean, didn't Ultima already ask GarrixianXD to translate it? Eh.

 

[Weaver261]

Weren't hoyo games known for its numerous mistranslations?

GGZ doesn't even have EN server anymore. Scans are directly from Chinese. Also mistranslation parts can be found on homu lab video which is pretty much unrelated to this thread.

 

[Max20091]

Welp, I think we should have a general discussion thread that calculate all the stuffs first before we even have a T0 character.
Meanwhile this T0 thread has nothing special enough to justify and people just randomly mix the so called "Honkai Cosmology" stuffs to HG2 without even knowing how things in HG2 works.

There's 1 random guy on the internet spreading the whole HG2 is in HI3 (imaginary tree) over the internet, meanwhile that guy doesn't even play the game and he doesn't even have a solid proof if HG2 is actually in the imaginary tree using any plausible explanation.
There is GDC video in 2019 but that thing refers to Hoyoverse (which HG2 is obviously not a part of that anymore).
Plus the HI3 team is actively dodge any answers about HG2 relationship with the imaginary tree like this 2D game doesn't exist. I wish someone could get direct yes/no answer from Dawei or someone equivalent about this so we don't have to spill multiple pages without a concrete solution.
If I can get a concrete answer from Dawei in this or next year then I don't object Yog for T0.

 

[Robo432343]

this thread should be closed

 

[Weaver261]

This threads is already at 10 pages and it's derailing a lot. I will add more into the summary about everything discussed so far.

@Max20091 and @Delta333 arguments mainly revolve around Chronos being the oldest god thus predates Yog Sothoth and that disqualify Tier 0.
My debunk : Chronos is only stated as the oldest god, not the oldest existence. Meanwhile Yog Sothoth is Tao and by her virtue, she predates everything in existence.

• Door that lead to Tao is stated as "origin of all thing" Mind that the door is also a metaphor since it doesn't exist.
• Tao is the essence of all being and outcome
• Yin and Yang are two fundamental forces that govern everything in cosmo
• Babylon also has yin and yang

Yog Sothoth being the Tao predates everything in existence. Chronos's story has no relation to Yog Sothoth or Babylon at all. Chronos is currently at mortal world living among mortals.

Another claims they made was GGZ doesn't share the cosmology as Hi3, HSR and Genshin.
My debunk: Mihoyo CEO said GGZ and HI3 are parallel worlds branching from the same storyline. Co-CEO of Mihoyo also showed GGZ as part of Honkai Universe. Even the parallel worlds model is the same idea as Hi3.
In other world storyline in GGZ, it's stated as such here which align with Imaginary Tree model given by Nagamitsu


Their debunks for this is about how CEO doesn't know GGZ and Hi3 aren't parallel. Like what? No offense but who they are to say for the sake of CEO of mihoyo?? About how 99.99% CN community doesn't agree with GGZ and HI3 being parallel while not showing any believeable statistics. (99.99% what is this? Soap ads? xD)
Later on, their arguments become more baseless and empty as you can see here and here
@Max20091 managed the fan wiki but has little ideas of how power scaling work. I talked with them in their discord server and that's what they said.

I hope this helps in understanding the thread better for staffs. Tier 0 is already clear and outright, agreed by multiple staffs with no staff disagree so far. I will update this when this thread get derailed again

I will address canonicity issues too although this thread literally doesn't need to be linked with Hi3 to get Tier 0 applied as it's self sufficient.
@Max20091 's claims of GGZ not being canon to the Honkai Universe is literally false! First of all, Imaginary Tree is a theoretical model of the Universe. It's not literally a tree. Otto theorized it as a tree in Hi3, Zandar theorized it as a tree in HSR. Although their models are similar, there're still small differences since they aren't the same person and Imaginary Tree is a theoretical model not an universal truth.
So, saying GGZ doesn't have imaginary tree is like saying Universe doesn't exist in GGZ which is completely ridiculous. Moreover, GGZ has already showed similar Universe Model to Imaginary Tree although it was never dubbed as Imaginary Tree.
In other world storyline in GGZ, it's stated as such here which align with Imaginary Tree model given by Nagamitsu

“You mean… this world is a hypothetical world created by the Honkai?”
Faced with Kiana’s question, Kevin shook his head.
“In areas where the source of Honkai is strong, the original laws of nature will be disrupted and even time and space will be distorted. But this world is not a fake created by the Honkai, but a world that actually exists in the Universe.”
“What do you mean!?”
“Yes, for each different choice, a new parallel world will be generated in the universe.”
Kevin turned his head and looked at Kiana: “And this is but one of many worldlines that diverge with Kevin Kaslana’s decisions at the centre.
Everything you see is just a bubble in the tiny Universe.”

As Da Wei said, GGZ and Hi3 are parallel worlds. And Co-CEO Haoyu Cai also confirmed that they already have this Honkai Universe idea ever since 2014 which means they have planned this all along to be parallel worlds. Moreover, In Hi3 comics, it's confirmed again as GGZ & Hi3 are parallel worldlines. GDC confirmation is not even outdated, it was like at 2021. Da Wei korean interview is from 2017. Da Wei even said "They want to create their own Marvel Universe".
So the whole claims about how Hi3 dodging GGZ connection questions don't really debunk already established idea here. Also Hoyoverse and Honkai Universe are not the same. Hoyoverse is the company name for Global distribution and that's why GGZ is not part of it since EN server are already shut down. Hoyoverse is for business purpose while Honkai Universe is for lore setting which is meta-universe or their own marvel universe.

I hope you guys can accept this.

 

[Max20091]

As Da Wei said, GGZ and Hi3 are parallel worlds. And Co-CEO Haoyu Cai also confirmed that they already have this Honkai Universe idea ever since 2014 which means they have planned this all along to be parallel worlds. Moreover, In Hi3 comics, it's confirmed again as GGZ & Hi3 are parallel worldlines. GDC confirmation is not even outdated, it was like at 2021. Da Wei korean interview is from 2017. Da Wei even said "They want to create their own Marvel Universe".
So the whole claims about how Hi3 dodging GGZ connection questions don't really debunk already established idea here. Also Hoyoverse and Honkai Universe are not the same. Hoyoverse is the company name for Global distribution and that's why GGZ is not part of it since EN server are already shut down. Hoyoverse is for business purpose while Honkai Universe is for lore setting which is just meta-universe or their own marvel universe.

I hope you guys can accept this.

I don't see any actual confirmation about HG2 is connected to HI3 anywhere.
The first link is talking about HG2 indeed, we even got actual Theresa from the HI3 comic (yes, HI3 Theresa in HG2 game story) but that appearance got removed and now we have Theresa look like this.

The second link have 0 mention about HG2 besides the question.
The third link is he refers to Hoyoverse, but Hoyoverse doesn't have HG2 at all sadly (and that's how they removed EN server). You can reference their website here and see, no HG2 mention at all. JP does have HG2 with Hoyoverse name but where's the forum and mention on Hoyoverse website?

 

[NothingToDebateWith]

Welp, I think we should have a general discussion thread that calculate all the stuffs first before we even have a T0 character.
Meanwhile this T0 thread has nothing special enough to justify and people just randomly mix the so called "Honkai Cosmology" stuffs to HG2 without even knowing how things in HG2 works.

There's 1 random guy on the internet spreading the whole HG2 is in HI3 (imaginary tree) over the internet, meanwhile that guy doesn't even play the game and he doesn't even have a solid proof if HG2 is actually in the imaginary tree using any plausible explanation.
There is GDC video in 2019 but that thing refers to Hoyoverse (which HG2 is obviously not a part of that anymore).
Plus the HI3 team is actively dodge any answers about HG2 relationship with the imaginary tree like this 2D game doesn't exist. I wish someone could get direct yes/no answer from Dawei or someone equivalent about this so we don't have to spill multiple pages without a concrete solution.
If I can get a concrete answer from Dawei in this or next year then I don't object Yog for T0.

Lol, lmao even.

 

[Weaver261]

I don't see any actual confirmation about HG2 is connected to HI3 anywhere.
The first link is talking about HG2 indeed, we even got actual Theresa from the HI3 comic (yes, HI3 Theresa in HG2 game story) but that appearance got removed and now we have Theresa look like this.

The second link have 0 mention about HG2 besides the question.
The third link is he refers to Hoyoverse, but Hoyoverse doesn't have HG2 at all sadly (and that's how they removed EN server). You can reference their website here and see, no HG2 mention at all. JP does have HG2 with Hoyoverse name but where's the forum and mention on Hoyoverse website?

Did you even read it? Like what do you mean there's no confirmation??? Da wei confirmed it. Cai haoyu confirmed it. Hi3 comics confirmed it. Second link last line said "The wordline of Hi3 will not be destroyed". They used the term of worldline to answer the question about the difference to GGZ. First link scans also said the same thing.
Hoyoverse is a company name for global distribution and it has nothing to do with the cosmology. Cosmology is Honkai universe.
This is extremely derailing & unnecessary for current crt. I showed a lot of scans and proofs for that. I think I have done enough at this point. We will move on with the thread

 

[Max20091]

Lol, lmao even.

I believe HI3 stuff is canon in Babylon (you can read the HI3 Awakens and you will notice some of them are in Babylon) but that doesn't necessary means they are in imaginary tree nor the exact character from HI3, more like expy. I found 0 proof about imaginary tree or its references in HG2 by searching all possible game texts. If there is a single proof exist in the game then it should appear on the internet now.

HG2 do have character series assignments and as long as they didn't being classified as Collab characters, they are 100% in either Babylon or main universe or whatever common universe exist in HG2 (unfortunately I found no one from HI3 got assigned to main universe).

 

[Max20091]

Did you even read it? Like what do you mean there's no confirmation??? Da wei confirmed it. Cai haoyu confirmed it. Hi3 comics confirmed it. Second link last line said "The wordline of Hi3 will not be destroyed". They used the term of worldline to answer the question about the difference to GGZ. First link scans also said the same thing.
Hoyoverse is a company name for global distribution and it has nothing to do with the cosmology. Cosmology is Honkai universe.
This is extremely derailing & unnecessary for current crt. I showed a lot of scans and proofs for that. I think I have done enough at this point. We will move on with the thread

I think you should ask them again, shouldn't be that hard if it's actually connected, right?
Maybe I should ask them on Twitter and ping them to be precise. Wait a bit, I make a post and please spread it on Twitter.

 

[Max20091]

I posted on Twitter.

 

[GarrixianXD]

We obviously shouldn't prioritise random statements out of the blue on social media over officially confirmed information. Not to mention it's even against the rules of the our site to seek authors with questions that directly pertain to powerscaling due to them being tired of such questions or simply lack of concern. Though, considering your status on HGK2; you indirectly pinged all of miHoYo instead of specific authors themselves (which is actually a red flag, since anyone who has hold of that account can give different answers); those questions can also be asked by lore-enthusiasm other than powerscalers, I'll personally at least exempt you from punishment, but keep in note that such practices like that are extremely discouraged.

Anyway, I definitely encourage us to continue this topic without waiting for MiHoYo's response in Max's post. Knowing MiHoYo, their chances of responding are pretty much zero, and as I aforementioned above, even if they did say anything, the information that they've provided out of the blue would be unreliable.

 

[Max20091]

We obviously shouldn't prioritise random statements out of the blue on social media over officially confirmed information. Not to mention it's even against the rules of the our site to seek authors with questions that directly pertain to powerscaling due to them being tired of such questions or simply lack of concern. Though, considering your status on HGK2; you indirectly pinged all of miHoYo instead of specific authors themselves (which is actually a red flag, since anyone who has hold of that account can give different answers); those questions can also be asked by lore-enthusiasm other than powerscalers, I'll personally at least exempt you from punishment, but keep in note that such practices like that are extremely discouraged.

Anyway, I definitely encourage us to continue this topic without waiting for MiHoYo's response in Max's post. Knowing MiHoYo, their chances of responding are pretty much zero, and as I aforementioned above, even if they did say anything, the information that they've provided out of the blue would be unreliable.

Oh, I'm really sorry, and thanks for the exemption. I didn't know there's a rule for this (or it's really obscure) despite searched the internet and just want to seek the answer about the connection rather than seeking for powerscaling.

I researched the whole game (and with my 10 years of playing the game and read all of its story) and still haven't found any traces of the so-called "imaginary tree" in this game once, yet people just claiming this game is in the HI3 imaginary tree is just nuts.
The authors doesn't give any statement about HK2 in the imaginary tree too so I don't trust any sources regarding the connection. If the answer is exist in the first place like people pointing at really ancient articles or the CEO who is more a programmer than the one know the game stories, I don't need to ask double check from HoYo themselves on the blue social media.
Edit: changing from "I don't really need to ask on the blue social media" to ask for double check as I found the previous words are confusing to read.

 

[BoastJr]

just want to seek the answer about the connection rather than seeking for powerscaling.

It just seems like a normal question to me and doesn't reek of the usual battleboard jargon / shenanigans. Usually those are easy to tell. Either way I agree with GarrixianXD on this yeah.

I researched the whole game (and with my 10 years of playing the game and read all of its story) and still haven't found any traces of the so-called "imaginary tree" in this game once, yet people just claiming this game is in the HI3 imaginary tree is just nuts.

Sounds like a case of Hasty Generalization or Fallacy of Composition if no such evidence exists. The lack of any mentions regarding "Imaginary Tree" does make it seem like that.