Genjutsu vs Kyoka suigetsu which one is better and which one would u rather have

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

"You misjudged me to the bone." Itachi's sharingan changed. Mangekyo.
"Tsukuyomi."
The second Mangekyo sharingan of that night invited Yashiro into a
unnatural darkness. Crucified on a cross standing in the center of a dark
ocean, he whirled his head around in confusion.
The surface of the dark water rose up at points all over, and these gradually
took on human form. Infinite Itachis. In their hands, they gripped ninja
swords.

"This is a world I control," Itachi murmured, his hand stretching out
toward Yashiro.
"Ngaaah!"
His blade plunged into Yashiro's stomach. The Itachi who thrust it
disappeared into the dark ocean.
"I won't let you die so easily."
One blade after the next pierced Yashiro's body. He became a silver
hedgehog, and went limp, motionless. As Itachi returned to the ocean, the
swords disappeared from Yashiro's body. A look of relief rose up onto his
face, until a herd of Itachis once more blanketed his field of view.
"The real pain starts now."
Yashiro's stiff face was transformed into a smile that was already beyond
terror.
Over a span of time that wasn't even a few seconds in the real world, the
two faced each other silently. That moment would have seemed like several
days to Yashiro. In the genjutsu space produced by the Mangekyo sharingan,
swords were endlessly plunged into his body, over and over. By the time he
was released to the real world, Yashiro's mind was destroyed.
"D-death ... D-d-d ..." Yashiro trembled and grinned.
Itachi looked down on him, as he slowly drew his sword.
Yashiro was already beyond the capacity to hear his voice. And Itachi had
nothing he could say to him at this stage.
His sword flashed mercilessly, and the pitiful man's head flew up into the
moonlit sky.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

This is what it did to Yoshiro. I've never seen Kyoka do anything on this scale.

 

[AppleLord]

Genjutsu has more versatile, however, Mayuri can do what Itachi did to Yoshiro. So Mayuri has better things than KS? NO?

Mayuri has replicated Genjutsu techniques with drugs. Lol

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Why are you acting like Kyoka is "more" potent because it works on "souls"? Like what?

Bleach Souls are extremely unconventional they have the 5 senses, blood, brains etc. Whilst souls from many other works have none of these human based stuff.

They're essentially just humans made up of different "spiritual" matter.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Are you trying to cross scale Mayuri's drug based "time delation" with KS? The two aren't even equatable like at all. KS is just perception manipulation and extra-sensory sense manipulation (I think?). Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[AppleLord]

Are you trying to cross scale Mayuri's drug based "time delation" with KS? The two aren't even equatable like at all.

Mayuri also invented Izanami.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

...Wut?

 

[SpookyShadow]

Mayuri's drug he used on Szayel is literally Izanami

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Oh sugar. It actually is.

 

[Rocker1189]

* Hagoromo summon souls at the end with chakra? So the same thing I said. THANKS for backing me up that souls are connected to the living world through chakra and limbo.

• Not a single soul feat of Genjutsu working on souls that are not connected to a body through chakra.

• Touching a soul with your hands and pulling the soul is not resistance to soul manipulation is a mediocre feat that Naruto was struggling to pull chakra since souls are made of chakra and chakra isn't even intangible in Naruto.

My point still stands.

???how on earth does that back you up. that does not mean souls are connected to the living world, it means that hagoromo has the power to affect the pure world/world of the dead in Naruto and wtf is Limbo? a random thing you just made up? Unless you mean limbo clones, which have nothing to do with clones.

Everything you said is just random speculation to downplay Naruto.

Your point does not stand on anything. You forget that Hagoromo himself is a soul.

 

[AstralKing7]

Call feats mediocre when it's still a feat ƒñªÔÇìÔÖé´©Å Here goes apple again rambling about things that aren't accepted on the site. We don't Tier illusions by souls. Next um it's like bleach fans have a thing against accepting that Naruto has resistance to soul manipulation ƒñªÔÇìÔÖ鴩ŃñªÔÇìÔÖ鴩ŃñªÔÇìÔÖé´©Å. Rinnegan literally allows you to pull the soul out of the body. Naruto pulled it back under bad circumstances which makes his resistance even better.

Also yes chakra is intangible lmao. Databook proves that.

 

[Snoke123]

The biggest proof that KS is soul manipulation is mayuri. mayuri can easily replace all parts of his body if KS attacked the body (as people love to say) KS was supposed to be immediately canceled as soon as mayuri replaced his entire body.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I mean chakra is tangible. Also Naruto does have resistance to soul manipulation. His soul was taking ages to be fully extracted whilst normally it takes Nagato a swipe on the head to do it.

 

[AppleLord]

Why are you acting like Kyoka is "more" potent because it works on "souls"? Like what?

Bleach Souls are extremely unconventional they have the 5 senses, blood, brains etc. Whilst souls from many other works have none of these human based stuff.

They're essentially just humans made up of different "spiritual" matter.

What's your point? Souls are not intangible in Naruto. Chakra isn't intangible in Naruto either except for a few jutsu.

 

[Rocker1189]

Genjutsu has more versatile, however, Mayuri can do what Itachi did to Yoshiro. So Mayuri has better things than KS? NO?
Mayuri has replicated Genjutsu techniques with drugs. Lol

so? this is about KS and stabbing someone can do the same thing as KS, what is your point?

 

[Rocker1189]

Mayuri's drug he used on Szayel is literally Izanami

good thing this is about KS. KS cant replicate what Mayuri's drug did.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

My point is Kyoka working on souls doesn't mean it's more potent. That's just the nature of the ability.

There's more than one aspect to chakra. Chakra can be physical, astral and natural.

Also souls existed before chakra came about on Earth. Otherwise regular humans in Naruto would be assumed to be soulless.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Mayuri's drug he used on Szayel is literally Izanami

How??

Izanami locks you in a loop that forces you to relieve a series of actions over and over again until you accept your fate.

Mayuri's drug makes it so that your senses speed up to the point that your body can no longer keep up and a second feels like a century.

 

[AppleLord]

This is what I am talking about the world between the living world in Naruto and the Pure Land. I called it Limbo because it makes sense in how it's a "place" in the middle of both but I don't know if the naruto databooks have another name for it.

 

[Rocker1189]

This is what I am talking about the world between the living world in Naruto and the Pure Land. I called it Limbo because it makes sense in how it's a planet in the middle of both but I don't know if the naruto databooks have another name for it.

You are literally disproving your point, this just points to Chakra being non- corporeal and its ability to reach even places of the dead where only souls exist like the pure world, which is the name of the afterlife in Naruto. And no it is not a planet. And has never been said to be one, dont fill your head canon in.

 

[MachTwo]

Mayuri's drug he used on Szayel is literally Izanami

You mean the drug he used against Zombie toshiro?

 

[SpookyShadow]

Maybe I messed up something

 

[MachTwo]

I mean chakra is tangible. Also Naruto does have resistance to soul manipulation. His soul was taking ages to be fully extracted whilst normally it takes Nagato a swipe on the head to do it.

It's pretty shit, really. He need to hold his own soul for his life and that's just soul extraction, not literally attacking the soul which is a different thing. Not like any of these matters anyway.

 

[AppleLord]

How??

Izanami locks you in a loop that forces you to relieve a series of actions over and over again until you accept your fate.

Mayuri's drug makes it so that your senses speed up to the point that your body can no longer keep up and a second feels like a century.

This chapter has MAYURI using Izanami.

 

[AppleLord]

You are literally disproving your point, this just points to Chakra being non- corporeal and its ability to reach even places of the dead where only souls exist like the pure world, which is the name of the afterlife in Naruto. And no it is not a planet. And has never been said to be one, dont fill your head canon in.

Is not a planet but a place. My keyboard mess that up. It's a place in between that connects both worlds. Chakra isn't tangible. That image proves that chakra connects the pure land where souls are supposed to go to the living world through chakra. That's why souls in Naruto are tangible. Because they are made of chakra like the tail beast.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

It's this drug. Somehow it scales to Aizen so I'd like to see how it does.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

That "Izanami" is just a drug that affects the brain. How does Aizen scale?

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Also Apple stop using so much headcanon.

 

[AppleLord]

I never said that it scales to Aizen. I just asked if Mayuri posses better hax than Aizen? But no one answered.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

If it doesn't scale to him then it's irrelevant.

 

[MachTwo]

It's this drug. Somehow it scales to Aizen so I'd like to see how it does.

It makes you feel 1 second in real time equivalent to 100 years, not sure how it scales to KS though.

 

[Rocker1189]

Is not a planet but a place. My keyboard mess that up. It's a place in between that connects both worlds. Chakra isn't tangible. That image proves that chakra connects the pure land where souls are supposed to go to the living world through chakra. That's why souls in Naruto are tangible. Because they are made of chakra like the tail beast.

Except souls are not Tangible, souls are made up of pure spiritual energy which is inangible just like what Tayuya does to make a purely spiritual attack that ignore physical objects, just like Dan can turn himself into a spirit and fly through anything that is not a injutsu barrier, just like hagoromo can float out a physical body and just like how spiritual weapons made out of chakra have no physical form, btw that is something else barriers and seals are capable of a trapping spiritual entities. Only the tailed beast are tangible and that is only becuase they are chakra given form via creation of all things. You have no argument, chakra simply has many states of being, from physical, to spiritual to astral in nature.

 

[AppleLord]

I just remember that you may be right about chakra been intangible, Mukei no Jutsu makes you intangible by changing your molecules to phase through solid objects but it can't block chakra. Kamui isn't a good counter-argument just because chakra can go through Obito since Kamui teleports the space to another dimension. I stand corrected.

 

[MachTwo]

Call feats mediocre when it's still a feat ƒñªÔÇìÔÖé´©Å Here goes apple again rambling about things that aren't accepted on the site. We don't Tier illusions by souls. Next um it's like bleach fans have a thing against accepting that Naruto has resistance to soul manipulation ƒñªÔÇìÔÖ鴩ŃñªÔÇìÔÖ鴩ŃñªÔÇìÔÖé´©Å. Rinnegan literally allows you to pull the soul out of the body. Naruto pulled it back under bad circumstances which makes his resistance even better.
Also yes chakra is intangible lmao. Databook proves that.

Oh speaking of soul manipulation, I can said the same thing with reiatsu crush. Like on that silly energy equalization thread, remember that?

 

[AstralKing7]

It's pretty shit, really. He need to hold his own soul for his life and that's just soul extraction, not literally attacking the soul which is a different thing. Not like any of these matters anyway.


Wtf dude u do realize it matters because there are different forms of soul manipulation bro. Nagato is 7A soon to be 6C so yeah it's not shit at all when Naruto was getting his power decreased at the same time as getting pulled backwards by the summon and getting his soul pulled while fighting back

 

[MachTwo]

It is when u need to actively hold your own soul, literally holding it with ur hand and as I said it's only for soul extraction

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Wait, wtf am reading?

• Souls in Naruto are Intangible (Only Chakra can interact with them)

• Naruto Characters have Resistance to Soul Manipulation (Hiruzen attempted to pull out Orochimaru's Soul with RDS and Oro fought him off, initially having pulled out half of his soul only for Oro to force it back in so that only the arms remained. Hiruzen cited not having enough strength to extract the Soul, which proves the strength of a user is determines if they can extract a soul, which is Textbook Resistance. Nagato, has been shown to easily extract the Souls of Vastly Weaker Foes instantly but could not do so with a comparable enemy. Granted he was still extracting Naruto's soul easily, effort had to be put into it and Naruto could resist the attempt by connecting his chakra with his spirit and pulling back on it, like against Kurama.) This is blatant Resistance to Soul Manipulation, so you can cut the crap nonsense.

• Chakra is a Tangible Energy Source that can simply interact with Spirits and Spiritual Words. You guys are making things unnecessarily complicated. Souls in Naruto are not "confirmed" to be made up of chakra, but are demonstrated to have Chakra as Souls can still utilize Jutsu.

 

[MachTwo]

• Naruto Characters have Resistance to Soul Manipulation (Hiruzen attempted to pull out Orochimaru's Soul with RDS and Oro fought him off, initially having pulled out half of his soul only for Oro to force it back in so that only the arms remained. Hiruzen cited not having enough strength to extract the Soul, which proves the strength of a user is determines if they can extract a soul, which is Textbook Resistance. Nagato, has been shown to easily extract the Souls of Vastly Weaker Foes instantly but could not do so with a comparable enemy. Granted he was still extracting Naruto's soul easily, effort had to be put into it and Naruto could resist the attempt by connecting his chakra with his spirit and pulling back on it, like against Kurama.) This is blatant Resistance to Soul Manipulation, so you can cut the crap nonsense.

You are senior users in here and u know how this work. Create crt if you want to give resistance to soul for bunch of naruto chars

 

[TheFinalOrder]

• Naruto Characters have Resistance to Soul Manipulation (Hiruzen attempted to pull out Orochimaru's Soul with RDS and Oro fought him off, initially having pulled out half of his soul only for Oro to force it back in so that only the arms remained. Hiruzen cited not having enough strength to extract the Soul, which proves the strength of a user is determines if they can extract a soul, which is Textbook Resistance. Nagato, has been shown to easily extract the Souls of Vastly Weaker Foes instantly but could not do so with a comparable enemy. Granted he was still extracting Naruto's soul easily, effort had to be put into it and Naruto could resist the attempt by connecting his chakra with his spirit and pulling back on it, like against Kurama.) This is blatant Resistance to Soul Manipulation, so you can cut the crap nonsense.

You are senior users in here and u know how this work. Create crt if you want to give resistance to soul for bunch of naruto chars

Trust, but this thread shouldn't have devolved into this in the first place. Just because a CTR has to be made to get it added to doesn't mean we can't debate the FACTS when it's brought up.

 

[MachTwo]

I told u dat because u keep bringing this thing left and right but never bother to do the thing that you should have done, hence I notice you kinda doesn't accomplish anything when faced against fellow users who know naruto, so whats up with that? but continue because this is quite funny.