Genjutsu vs Kyoka suigetsu which one is better and which one would u rather have

[AstralKing7]

This all happened because people think u can tier mind manipulation by its effect on souls lol. We have a mind manipulation page and it jsut so happens that KS isn't mind manipulation in the first place. So this thread is kinda unnecessary tbh.

 

[MachTwo]

He didn't mean that at all. I've talked with TFO about soul manipulation a lot of times. His response that you replied to was for Naruto and Oro who have the same feat similarly. He didn't say any other characters should have resistance when they don't obviously got feats.
He said Oro and Naruto in the text and those are two Naruto characters

I mean, his response to me doesn't match that but let just say, I will remember that.

 

[Omimi]

Even if they knew it wouldn't do shit. You can break out of Kyoka Suigetsu only when you touch it, and after Aizen fused with it it's not happening.

anyone with resistance to mind minip should able to break it

 

[SpookyShadow]

Even if they knew it wouldn't do shit. You can break out of Kyoka Suigetsu only when you touch it, and after Aizen fused with it it's not happening.

anyone with resistance to mind minip should able to break it

Resistance =/= Immunity.

 

[AstralKing7]

Resistance still gives u the ability to do it.

 

[SpookyShadow]

It depends how strong your resistance is.

 

[AstralKing7]

Yeah that^

Thing is tho that KS is unfortunately not mind manipulation but perception manipulation.

 

[Omimi]

Wtf dude u do realize it matters because there are different forms of soul manipulation bro. Nagato is 7A soon to be 6C so yeah it's not shit at all when Naruto was getting his power decreased at the same time as getting pulled backwards by the summon and getting his soul pulled while fighting back

and at the same time he had 13 clones(which split his energy evenly divided between him and his clones) fighting the war too

 

[Snoke123]

Resistance still gives u the ability to do it.

headcanon

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

What is wrong with all of you and why are you getting so heated discussing Soul Manipulation in a thread about illusion stuff?

Cool down, I don't wanna need to call a moderator.

 

[AstralKing7]

What is wrong with all of you and why are you getting so heated discussing Soul Manipulation in a thread about illusion stuff?

Cool down, I don't wanna need to call a moderator.

I think everyone chilled out until u brought it back up

 

[AstralKing7]

headcanon

Huh?if your saying resistance doesn't allow you to uhh resist abilities idk what to say ƒÿÉ

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I think everyone chilled out until u brought it back up

Everyone not bringing it up for a few moments after it had already happened a few times and kept on going doesn't sound like chill out to me.

That was still pretty dumb, I hope it doesn't repeat.

And what in the hell do you mean, Astral? We literally see Aizen control people's mind all the way back on Soul Society Arc.

 

[AstralKing7]

U mean perception manipulation??? Perception manipulation doesn't control minds dude. U do realize his profile even proves that. He doesn't have mind manipulation. Perception manipulation makes people believe they are doing one thing becusee their senses are being tampered with. That's not mind manipulation bro.

The fact hat the description of KS said it's perception manipulation pretty proves it. Perception manipulation can look like mind **** but it's not at all. It's just messing up your senses and what you see

I don't think most people realize how important your senses. I recommend everyone in college or people who have chances at dual enrollment to take psychology. U don't need your mind to be effected for your senses to be stimulated and allow you to see illusions.

Perception manipulation does not lead to mind manipulation. Mind manipulation leads to perception manipulation sometimes which is why people get them confused

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

We are discussing the powers, not debating using profiles so I don't know why you bring that up.

We literally see Aizen make someone that is not him follow Shinji around for a whole month, and ******* up with the minds of Jirobu and the other gate guards. Not sure why it wasn't in the anime but eh. I personally think KS can totally control the mind, but Aizen doesn't lean on that much.

 

[AstralKing7]

...what lmao okay I'm gone.

 

[AstralKing7]

Respect your opinion tho

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Thanks for the respecting but, why even that reaction? It happens in the manga and we are actually not just discussing with profiles - this is just a general discussion.

Like, have I said anything wrong?

 

[Naeblis495]

no you have not said anything wrong Lancelot

i guess astral is just having a bad day , don't mind him , he is usually fun to debate with .

 

[Dzhindzholia]

Aizen doesn't have mind manipulatoin abilities.

We discuss accepted powers that are already in profiles,not the ones you just invented and accepted on your own.Multiple ppl need to see that and make their decisoin if the ability is legit or not.I think if he truly had MM it was already on his profile.If it isn't there you can make a CRT.

 

[AppleLord]

Astral is better if you post the scans.

 

[AstralKing7]

Lol what Dzh said. I had the belief that we were talking about abilities that were accepted on profiles which is relevant to the debate and not just things that we want to be other abilities which aren't accepted and have no evidence since it could be something else or stated to something else.

When getting in debates like that I just drop them since it has literally nothing to do with the rules of the site and pretty much is just giving abilities when they're not abilities

I won't say that genjutsu uses creation since it's reali warping. Why would I discuss abilities that aren't accepted by the site?? I'm pretty sure no one here even knew we we're doing that

 

[NotCensored]

When people be saying KS is stronger cause it affects souls without realizing Genjutsu literally affects the Soul of the target via being Yin Release or Spiritual Energy smh

 

[AppleLord]

When people be saying KS is stronger cause it affects souls without realizing Genjutsu literally affects the Soul of the target via being Yin Release or Spiritual Energy smh

Do you have scans to prove that everyone in Naruto has Yin release?

 

[NotCensored]

When people be saying KS is stronger cause it affects souls without realizing Genjutsu literally affects the Soul of the target via being Yin Release or Spiritual Energy smh

Do you have scans to prove that everyone in Naruto has Yin release?

Genjutsu itself is Yin Release

 

[Naeblis495]

Yin release utilise the "spiritual"energy part of chakra

the same "spiritual" energy that got debunked by the serie itself as being from being spiritual as in the mind and not spiritual as in the soul .

"Chakra is created when two other forms of energy, known collectively as one's "stamina", are moulded together. Physical energy (Þ║½õ¢ôÒé¿ÒâìÒâ½Òé«Òâ╝, shintai enerug─½) is collected from each and every one of the body's cells and can be increased through training, stimulants, and exercise. Spiritual energy (þ▓¥þÑ×Òé¿ÒâìÒâ½Òé«Òâ╝, seishin enerug─½, English TV: Mental Energy) is derived from the mind's consciousness and can be increased through studying, meditation, and experience."

this wiki make a clear difference between the two : mind and soul are compleltely different.

 

[NotCensored]

Yin release utilise the "spiritual"energy part of chakra
the same "spiritual" energy that got debunked by the serie itself as being from being spiritual as in the mind and not spiritual as in the soul .

"Chakra is created when two other forms of energy, known collectively as one's "stamina", are moulded together. Physical energy (Þ║½õ¢ôÒé¿ÒâìÒâ½Òé«Òâ╝, shintai enerug─½) is collected from each and every one of the body's cells and can be increased through training, stimulants, and exercise. Spiritual energy (þ▓¥þÑ×Òé¿ÒâìÒâ½Òé«Òâ╝, seishin enerug─½, English TV: Mental Energy) is derived from the mind's consciousness and can be increased through studying, meditation, and experience."

Yes because Dan soul form or the Hokage's souls being released from Edo or Naruto's Soul being pulled out from his body etc. etc. etc. obviously aren't actual souls lmao get out of my face with this non-sense

 

[Naeblis495]

i'm saying that chakra in itself have nothing to do with spirituality as in the soul .

Some jutsu can still affect souls yes , this have been proven .

but saying that all gentjutsu affect soul just because yin release is factually incorrect .

yin release is the mind part of chakra , what does genjutsu do ? affect the mind , it all make sense

 

[Rocker1189]

Nope, chakra is straight up from the soul, that is why tayuya's jutsu that is spiritual energy only can move through physical objects.

chakra is soul and physical based. mental energy is not a thing/

 

[Naeblis495]

and yet , every sources on chakra say the opposite .

 

[Rocker1189]

and yet , every sources on chakra say the opposite .

what is this every source, the main source would always be the manga.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Can we please not go back to this? We all know exactly how this will go and no one's mind is getting changed this time if they didn't before so lets stop being futile and move on with our days.

 

[Rocker1189]

I want to know what his sources are, the only thing that comes from is the wiki which is not even sourced.

 

[Naeblis495]

and the japanese words used to describe chakra are :

Physical energy (Þ║½õ¢ôÒé¿ÒâìÒâ½Òé«Òâ╝, shintai enerug─½)

and

Spiritual energy (þ▓¥þÑ×Òé¿ÒâìÒâ½Òé«Òâ╝, seishin enerug─½, English TV: Mental Energy)


the correct japanese term for souls/spirit is rei , like Reishi (Ú£èÕ¡É, Spirit Particles)

if a moon speaker could actually confirm this this would be great

 

[AppleLord]

Nae makes sense.

 

[Rocker1189]

regardless of translation chakra has been shown capable of affecting souls from the very start of the manga when hiruzen used the death reaper seal.

 

[AppleLord]

regardless of translation chakra has been shown capable of affecting souls from the very start of the manga when hiruzen used the death reaper seal.

How does summoning a reaper to rip a mortal relates to chakra affecting souls?

 

[Naeblis495]

with a very specific technique that is considered forbidden and very rare , just like the human path .

now , do you have an actual proof that ALL genjutsu affect the soul ?

just because some jutsu( very potent and rare one at that) can affect souls doesn't mean that all of them do.

 

[Rocker1189]

How does summoning a reaper to rip a mortal relates to chakra affecting souls?

because reaping out the soul from his arms literally meant his arms could never use chakra(obvious link with soul and chakra there). And yet Orochimaru was going to tsunade to fix his arms which means tsunade had to have a way of affecting his soul.

 

[Rocker1189]

with a very specific technique that is considered forbidden and very rare , just like the human path .
now , do you have an actual proof that ALL genjutsu affect the soul ?

You would note that I did not say anything about genjutsu and souls, I am talking of simply chakra, and my proof is above, oroshimaru and his soul's arms being taken away, meaning his arms had no chakra. Indra and Ashura also reincarnating from their chakra.