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Genjutsu vs Kyoka suigetsu which one is better and which one would u rather have

I am confused by something here. Are we taking genjutsu as some kind of composite genjutsu/dojutsu where we the user become masters on the level of Obito who mindhaxes perfect Jins in base Sharingan? Because I am seeing everyone compare Aizen and Itachi to see the better effects but none of us are ever going to be their level.

Honestly, even if it was between MS with Koto and Tsukyomi vs EoS KS, I'd pick KS simply for the fact it is even easier to pull off (however slight) and everything I do will require the same effort. The only downside is not having the Aizen levels of power but then again its not like anyone I use it on will even be on the level of a scrub soul so I can just train to increase my energy level and spam it all the time. Tokinada had the misfortune to be fighting people with XP against KS and equal if not more reiatsu than him, something I will never have to deal with. This pick also come with a free sword that I can spawn whenever I want so that adds to the cool factor lol.

For MS, there is the huge downside of how much chakra is needed considering Itachi, even while in a much better condition compared to the Hideout fight with Sasuke, could only use MS techs 3 times a day or else he'd go blind far too quickly and used so much chakra, he couldn't maintain his normal Sharingan anymore. Keeping the base Sharingan on all the time is also something taxing even for an Uchiha which is why Itachi doing so is noted to be special iirc. I also can't use the MS tech much (let alone spam) or else I will go blind within the day (Sasuke vs Danzo).
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
==Most Versatile==
Varies.

Activatio
EoS Kyouka Suigetsu can be activated upon just looking at Aizen's body which is pretty much faster than every Genjutsu in Naruto since all of them require the caster to perform the Jutsu.

Effects
EoS Kyouka Suigetsu can affect the 5 senses and also your sense of time. It can also affect multiple visions at once as seen with it affecting Yhwach's ability to view a near infinite amount of futures. Bleach characters also have a 6th sense, Reikaku sensing, which seems affected or impacted upon KS being placed on them.

Basic Genjutsu control the 5 senses, that's it.

Sharingan Genjutsu have the added effects of Izanagi and Izanami if the caster knows how to use them. Both are singular time uses and render one eye of the Sharingan user blind, thus you have only two chances to use them which then render your Genjutsu abilities null.

Itachi's Tsukiyomi affect sense of time.

Shisui's Genjutsu literally controls you without you knowing, whatever he wants you to do happens.

Infinite Tsukuyomi is pretty much like Itachi's Tsukiyomi except with a larger casting range.

Shisui's is better in effect.

Reactivatio
To reactivate Genjutsu you must recast it on the target.

KS is better since it can the target need only view it once and are forever always affected and can have their senses affected anywhere and anytime.

Harder to Break
You can break basic Genjutsu with pain not from the Genjutsu, disrupting Chakra flow, outside help releasing you from it (or if you have an internal being inside of you like the Bijuu they can help you of it) or training yourself like Deidara to be resistant to basic Genjutsu.

Ocular Genjutsu can be broken the same ways.

Sharingan Genjutsu can be broken with disruption of Chakra Flow and outside help (or internal).

Shisui's Genjutsu can be broken like Sharingan Genjutsu.

Itachi's Genjutsu can be broken like Sharingan Genjutsu.

Infinite Tsukuyomi can only be broken by a specific method that can't be replicated via normal means.

KS can't be broken as it's only method of breaking it has been removed since the Zanpakuto no longer exists, it's harder to break.

More Potent
KS is based on whoever sees Aizen, it doesn't have a potency really since if an infinite number of people see Aizen then an infinite number of people are affected.

Ocular Genjutsu is based on the caster's sight, thus it's potency is limited.

Shisui's Genjutsu is based on his sight.

Itachi's Genjutsu is based on his sight.

Sound Genjutsu is based on whoever hears the sound, it doesn't have a potency really since if an infinite number of people hear it then an infinite number of people are affected.

Infinite Tsukuyomi is based on whatever light the moon touches on the planet, so a planet surface limit.

So there isn't one that is more potent as KS, Sound Genjutsu and IT are pretty much under the same potency, but if we're being honest... IT is better because of it's greater casting range. Sound is slow and has limits to how far it can go, sight is based on 5km at least and the IT can affect a planet at once. So IT is better in this regard of range.

Which I Would Rather Have
In a real world, nearly all Genjutsu are useless as they don't affect anyone without a Chakra Network System.

Only Shisui's Genjutsu and IT would work on those without one as those specifically put Chakra in the target to control the target or affect those without a Chakra Network, respectively.

KS will work on anyone, but it also has one downside on the fact that if you don't have a monstrous amount of Reiryoku like Aizen then it's a sad version of it as shown by Tokinada.

Honestly I think IT is dumb, it just incapactitates an entire planet, with Shisui's I can directly control people to do what I want with it and it's whoever I see.

With KS I can manipulate them, but I can't control them and it's whoever sees me.

I'd go with Shisui's, in all honesty it's a pretty strong Genjutsu and it's the only one that I always thought was more useful than KS and better in terms of utility.

Do you have a discord?

i would perfer to address your entire article vocally about which is better regarding potency or just being more practical
Click to expand...
 
Naeblis495 said:
never been showned to control people outright no . but he can craft situations where people do as he want under his illusions .
Click to expand...
which would ultimately suggest (indirect) control rather then (direct) control which means genjutsu is more authoritative which also supports its more potent
 
AnonymousBlank said:
I am confused by something here. Are we taking genjutsu as some kind of composite genjutsu/dojutsu where we the user become masters on the level of Obito who mindhaxes perfect Jins in base Sharingan? Because I am seeing everyone compare Aizen and Itachi to see the better effects but none of us are ever going to be their level.

Honestly, even if it was between MS with Koto and Tsukyomi vs EoS KS, I'd pick KS simply for the fact it is even easier to pull off (however slight) and everything I do will require the same effort. The only downside is not having the Aizen levels of power but then again its not like anyone I use it on will even be on the level of a scrub soul so I can just train to increase my energy level and spam it all the time. Tokinada had the misfortune to be fighting people with XP against KS and equal if not more reiatsu than him, something I will never have to deal with. This pick also come with a free sword that I can spawn whenever I want so that adds to the cool factor lol.

For MS, there is the huge downside of how much chakra is needed considering Itachi, even while in a much better condition compared to the Hideout fight with Sasuke, could only use MS techs 3 times a day or else he'd go blind far too quickly and used so much chakra, he couldn't maintain his normal Sharingan anymore. Keeping the base Sharingan on all the time is also something taxing even for an Uchiha which is why Itachi doing so is noted to be special iirc. I also can't use the MS tech much (let alone spam) or else I will go blind within the day (Sasuke vs Danzo).
Click to expand...
Code: 
so this thread is suggesting which is better / more powerful inducement that has been consistently shown throughout both verses
this has nothing to do with what looks cooler or said users stats, aizen or itachi or their longevity ect more so the ability they possess
 
This KS can't be broken bs is a massive NLF btw. Also saying that it affected multiple future visions is also wrong because it only worked due to affecting Yhwach before he activated the almighty. Even Aizen did not know what Yhwach could see.

I would say that in effect every MS is better EoS KS is faster yeah, bit that is a special case for Aizen.

I don't see what makes KS so potent it is also affected by the 5km sight range, only difference is that your enemies have to see it.

IT is better in everyway but activation speed but UT is overkill, having a 3 tomorrow sharingan with its genjutsu effects is good enough for me.

I thought we assumed genjutsu worked on anyone like normal. If so again I would just have sharingan since it gives me multiple effects of course an MS would be even better.

IT is too specific and for specific reasons, though you can use it normally based on what Madara did to Obito, shisui's is easily the best one here.
 
Theres no NLF my dude. read the manga. there's a clearly defined weakness, you need to touch the sword before he uses KS to release it. this is not your crappy genjutsu where you just stop your ki and restart it.to break out. that's a weakness of naruto's genjutsu, not Aizens KS.
 
If KS is used on someone who is highly resistant to Perception Manip and Illusion Creation on it's level, they're going to see through it. Saying that it can only be broken this specific way holds true for characters who don't have either have any resistance at all or their resistance is not enough to counter KS.

This holds true for just about every ability.
 
Heavens Feel said:
um, that's why i specifically said "Crappy genjutsu".

though sharingan genjutsu is also demonstratebly breakable.
Click to expand...
When you said that I thought you meant all genjutsu.

That is the strength of the sharingan, to be able to see hrough mind hax and illusions. As well as cast them.
 
@Sasuke

Try actually read what I typed because I was specifically referring to which I would pick for myself and why, which makes the user in question completely relevant. Saying they are not is like saying that a rapier user who beats a falchion user makes the former weapon better than the latter. Just because one weapon ca beat the other in some respects doesn't mean it is inherently better, that comes down to the user in question and what they are trying to do with it. Does genjutsu have greater versatility or potential power than KS? Maybe but that doesn't mean someome who uses it is automatically better than a KS wielder. No one is going to be resisting either so I look at the downsides in their usage and how it would inconvenience me and genjutsu has a hell of a lot more than KS.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
@Sasuke

Try actually read what I typed because I was specifically referring to which I would pick for myself and why, which makes the user in question completely relevant. Saying they are not is like saying that a rapier user who beats a falchion user makes the former weapon better than the latter. Just because one weapon ca beat the other in some respects doesn't mean it is inherently better, that comes down to the user in question and what they are trying to do with it. Does genjutsu have greater versatility or potential power than KS? Maybe but that doesn't mean someome who uses it is automatically better than a KS wielder. No one is going to be resisting either so I look at the downsides in their usage and how it would inconvenience me and genjutsu has a hell of a lot more than KS.
Click to expand...
are you sure about that or are you comparing the body of said users which would be irrelevant to this thread with that aside if i had ocular genjutsu and you had ks you would be at a disadvantage the fact that aizen had to sneak around and deceive his peers outside of combat to bewitch them says alot about that inducement
 
Seriously, are you reading what I type? I am looking at which is easier for me to use so comparing how the techs affect the user (myself in this scenario) is important for deciding which I would prefer to have. I don't have to deal with ninjas who trained to dispel illusions or a military group that sees my power as the boogeyman of Zanpakuto so harder to dispel is irrelevant, both can control the senses but KS is easier to use, and when looking at the best and weakest versions of both, genjutsu is far more taxing, will make me blind and gives me aneurysms everytime I want to use it. The only thing extra it has is making people fall asleep which is boring af and still doesn't make up for all the downsides. Compare this to KS whose only weaknesses don't matter cuz people grabbing onto a bare sword or somehow having a stronger soul than someone who has a Zan spirit is so absurdly unlikely, its not happening. EoS KS even gets rid of the first weakness and makes it even easier to use with no new downsides.

What puts me at a disadvantage? Are you telling me you aren't going to look at the sword of a guy you are supposed to be fighting? If so, you are either cocky af or just dumb.

Placing someone under KS in combat is piss easy, just look at Aizen recruiting Baraggan. The reason why Aizen didn't do it to the Gotei 13 in combat is because he was playing the long game and making them enemies before he even found the location of Hogyoku would be utterly stupid. Damn, the character has more than two brain cells, guess his illusions must be ass in combat.
 
Actually just like most moves the amount of chakra you put into a genjutsu technique is up to you. Kotoamatsu definitely was not taxing for shisui's for example. If you are going to look at the best of both the you would compare KS to Kotoamatsu. Koto does not require eye contact, is based on sight range. Is not as taxing as tsukuyomi, and means completely control of the target for the rest for their lives without them even knowing it.

KS and is effects have been stated above.

I personally would rank Koto above KS is practically anyway but maybe aoe since Koto is based on you sight range.

Average genjutsu certainly won't be as swift as KS or as simple to use. But if I want a wide range of effects other than just illusions then I would choose to have an MS.
 
Heck, I wouldn't even mind a normal Sharingan to be honest. I mean, while not as powerful as a MS, you still get a good amount of benefits what with occular genjutsu, being to see through illusions/genjutsu, being able to reflect said genjutsu/illusions that are used on you and, if you're good enough, even throw off something as powerful as a Tsukuyomi.

Maybe it's just me, but I like the thought of something operating as offense and defense in one nice package.
 
The problem is that KS is not just illusions, it is merely how Aizen uses it since he's an ass. If he can make Hitsugaya feel like he's stabbing him, there's literally no reason he can't torture you by pain or overload to your senses. But Aizen likes playing around - there's a reason Momo is the one getting pierced specifically by Hitsugaya.

Yet despite this, we clearly see him use it to mind control people on two occasions as well.

Then, you can go and imagine what happens in a confrontation between people that know what's the gig? You have not looking into the eyes versus not looking into the main, sharp weapon of a swordsman.

Koto is the only Genjutsu I can say outstrips it. The control is total, it's subtle, it's unnoticeable, for SOME reason it doesn't seem to cost any relevant amounts of energy, the range is pretty wide and affecting someone isn't exactly hard, can even override mind control from another source.

But that's also why I put it besides Genjutsu in general. It's pretty much the very epitome of Genjutsu without many of its weaknesses or intermediary steps, and way stronger.
 
I'm still iffy on the mind control portion, if he was able to do that he wouldn't need to do all that sneaking around and trickery, same thing with causing pain you would think he would have atleast made ONE person feel pain or pass out Also I agree the Reason that was the ONLY way to beat KS in bleach could be because they have little to no resistance to sense or mind manip
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
The problem is that KS is not just illusions, it is merely how Aizen uses it since he's an ass. If he can make Hitsugaya feel like he's stabbing him, there's literally no reason he can't torture you by pain or overload to your senses. But Aizen likes playing around - there's a reason Momo is the one getting pierced specifically by Hitsugaya.
Yet despite this, we clearly see him use it to mind control people on two occasions as well.

Then, you can go and imagine what happens in a confrontation between people that know what's the gig? You have not looking into the eyes versus not looking into the main, sharp weapon of a swordsman.

Koto is the only Genjutsu I can say outstrips it. The control is total, it's subtle, it's unnoticeable, for SOME reason it doesn't seem to cost any relevant amounts of energy, the range is pretty wide and affecting someone isn't exactly hard, can even override mind control from another source.

But that's also why I put it besides Genjutsu in general. It's pretty much the very epitome of Genjutsu without many of its weaknesses or intermediary steps, and way stronger.
Click to expand...
Sorry but with no proof of it beyond illusions I dont think we can say it can do that.

I dont think he clearly mind controlled anyone, he made people see things to act a certain way.
 
Heavens Feel said:
you do realise what the five senses are right rocker?
and I made it clear that he did.
Click to expand...
I do and with no proof of him using it a certain way I dont see why we assume that he can.

You making it clear does not take away from the point, he uses illusions to lure people into making decisions that makes them look mind controlled.
 
that is a dumb comment.You realise he controls the sense of touch, but you don't think he can because he didn't? is this correct?

you then go on to be a hypocrite in your next paragraph.

I'm wasting time on you, so i'll call it Gg no re here.
 
Bleach anime is noncanon. Don't know why it's being brought up as proof unless we're using composites.

As far as I'm aware, KS is only illusion crafting and Time Perception Manipulation. Aizen has not once mind controlled people in canon.

I wouldn't mind having either, Genjutsu just does more:

  • Mind Control
  • Illusion Crafting
  • Phantom Pain/Death
  • Separating Conciousness From the Body as a whole (Frog Genjutsu)
  • Time Perception (Tsukiyomi)
At Least with KS, I'd Have a sword though.
 
TheFinalOrder said:
Bleach anime is noncanon. Don't know why it's being brought up as proof unless we're using composites.
As far as I'm aware, KS is only illusion crafting and Time Perception Manipulation. Aizen has not once mind controlled people in canon.

I wouldn't mind having either, Genjutsu just does more:

  • Mind Control
  • Illusion Crafting
  • Phantom Pain/Death
  • Separating Conciousness From the Body as a whole (Frog Genjutsu)
  • Time Perception (Tsukiyomi)
At Least with KS, I'd Have a sword though.
Click to expand...
we have least one example of mind control from the manga
 
KS. you just look at my blade an GG.


its even worse if you are talking about KS in the TYBW, since as soon as you lay eyes on me, GG.
 
Heavens Feel said:
that is a dumb comment.You realise he controls the sense of touch, but you don't think he can because he didn't? is this correct?
you then go on to be a hypocrite in your next paragraph.

I'm wasting time on you, so i'll call it Gg no re here.
Click to expand...
I mean I believe he can but he would have to make an illusion for it. For example an illusion stabbing his target.

I dont see how I was a hypocrite.

right, bye.
 
Ovrhide said:
KS. you just look at my blade an GG.


its even worse if you are talking about KS in the TYBW, since as soon as you lay eyes on me, GG.
Click to expand...
He still had to release it its something that had to be actiavted
 
Yeah I don't see how KS is anything more than perception manipulation and extrasensory perception manipulation although I'm pretty sure Yamamoto countered it using this sense. Not sure where controlling the perception of time comes from or mind control. KS is superior in longevity and ease of putting off although that isn't really a factor if the opponent is unaware of the illusion activation. Pretty sure Sasuke didn't even have to look at the Biju to put them in rinnegan genjutsu.
 
Naeblis495 said:
TheFinalOrder said:
Bleach anime is noncanon. Don't know why it's being brought up as proof unless we're using composites.
As far as I'm aware, KS is only illusion crafting and Time Perception Manipulation. Aizen has not once mind controlled people in canon.

I wouldn't mind having either, Genjutsu just does more:

  • Mind Control
  • Illusion Crafting
  • Phantom Pain/Death
  • Separating Conciousness From the Body as a whole (Frog Genjutsu)
  • Time Perception (Tsukiyomi)
At Least with KS, I'd Have a sword though.
Click to expand...
we have least one example of mind control from the manga
Click to expand...
Is it the Toshiro stuff i'm seeing going around?
 
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