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General DC Comics Discussion Thread

Came across Captain Marvel Adventures #76. In it, Captain Marvel is doing an experiment involving smashing atoms, but a scientist appears claiming that this atom-smashing cyclotron C. Marvel’s using was going to destroy his universe, which is infinitesimally small as contained within an individual atom (Captain Marvel’s universe is “infinitely larger”). He escaped his universe through inventing a machine which could escape “space as it is measured in length and breadth and height” and travel through the fourth dimension to reach Captain Marvel as their universes were unconnected in space but connected through a higher-dimension.

Then they use that machine to travel to a higher universe which sees Captain Marvel’s universe as an atom to stop another scientist from that universe (which again is infinitely larger than Captain Marvel’s universe) trying to use the same type of atom-smasher, only for him to say that means that his universe too is infinitesimally small in comparison to a larger universe.

Does this mean that Pre-Crisis DC has an infinite-dimensional cosmology?
 
Osemere said:
Came across Captain Marvel Adventures #76. In it, Captain Marvel is doing an experiment involving smashing atoms, but a scientist appears claiming that this atom-smashing cyclotron C. Marvel’s using was going to destroy his universe, which is infinitesimally small as contained within an individual atom (Captain Marvel’s universe is “infinitely larger”). He escaped his universe through inventing a machine which could escape “space as it is measured in length and breadth and height” and travel through the fourth dimension to reach Captain Marvel as their universes were unconnected in space but connected through a higher-dimension.

Then they use that machine to travel to a higher universe which sees Captain Marvel’s universe as an atom to stop another scientist from that universe (which again is infinitely larger than Captain Marvel’s universe) trying to use the same type of atom-smasher, only for him to say that means that his universe too is infinitesimally small in comparison to a larger universe.

Does this mean that Pre-Crisis DC has an infinite-dimensional cosmology?
Click to expand...
I'd have to see the scans myself to check, but even if they were valid, they wouldn't scale to the greater cosmology without evidence of a connection to a cosmology. It's against the rules to try to make random scans benefit all of DC by such far-fetched cross-scaling.
 
IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
I'd have to see the scans myself to check, but even if they were valid, they wouldn't scale to the greater cosmology without evidence of a connection to a cosmology. It's against the rules to try to make random scans benefit all of DC by such far-fetched cross-scaling.
Click to expand...
The cosmology split specifically punted on the issue of pre-crisis all those years ago and said it wasn’t necessary to split since the profiles as used weren’t doing anything crazy like the post-crisis profiles were. That’s uncharted territory and would need to be restipulated, there’s no precedent for ignoring something like that.
 
Osemere said:
The cosmology split specifically punted on the issue of pre-crisis all those years ago and said it wasn’t necessary to split since the profiles as used weren’t doing anything crazy like the post-crisis profiles were. That’s uncharted territory and would need to be restipulated, there’s no precedent for ignoring something like that.
Click to expand...
It may not be necessary to split the profiles, but random scans like that would still be highly questionable without an actual basis.
 
IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
It may not be necessary to split the profiles, but random scans like that would still be highly questionable without an actual basis.
Click to expand...
I guess if we keep going we need an “Otto Binder” cosmology too because of this, because whatever. (Although again, I think it’s funny that it’s the case that Wolfman while writing COIE went into the DC archives and read every single comic there up until that point, which would sidestep the whole “but authors don’t know what other ones are writing” issue).
 
AerrowStorm1 said:
FOUND IT! WHIZ Comics #133
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At a glance, "dimension" appears to be used inconsistently in that panel. It opens by stating that the four mathematical dimensions, three spatial and one temporal, are all their world knows, but then it says that traveling "beyond space and time" (their specific space-time continuum, not spatiotemporal dimensionality in general) allowed them to reach a "dimension" beyond all that, which is clearly a parallel universe.
 
IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
At a glance, "dimension" appears to be used inconsistently in that panel. It opens by stating that the four mathematical dimensions, three spatial and one temporal, are all their world knows, but then it says that traveling "beyond space and time" (their specific space-time continuum, not spatiotemporal dimensionality in general) allowed them to reach a "dimension" beyond all that, which is clearly a parallel universe.
Click to expand...
Can be a Universe with higher dimensionality
 
IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
At a glance, "dimension" appears to be used inconsistently in that panel. It opens by stating that the four mathematical dimensions, three spatial and one temporal, are all their world knows, but then it says that traveling "beyond space and time" (their specific space-time continuum, not spatiotemporal dimensionality in general) allowed them to reach a "dimension" beyond all that, which is clearly a parallel universe.
Click to expand...
I would say this isn't the case necessarily, in fact, maybe the desire to make clear "these dimensions are just universes" when describing parallel universes limited someone's own understanding of these worlds being limited.

If you were to imagine our universe as being a single 1-dimensional line alongside infinite other parallel lines, they all exist in an infinite 2-dimensional plane. If someone were to travel from their universe to another, they are moving beyond the singular dimension of their universe into the 2nd spatial axis to reach another universe, as the travel literally took another dimension to get there.

So a statement isn't 100% correct, I would say, but it's by no means a complete contradiction or inconsistency. If we were to learn that there's a 4th spatial axis to the cosmos and another universe that takes up that 4th spatial axis beyond our three, it wouldn't be needed to call it out as "But the dimension is just an axis of that universe", by context you can get what they mean by it and how it can still make sense.
 
Can Michael Demiurgos create things fully formed? like ellain did (Creating a horse out of nowhere) before even getting his power? or can he just only truly make just matter and energy??
 
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
Can Michael Demiurgos create things fully formed? like ellain did (Creating a horse out of nowhere) before even getting his power? or can he just only truly make just matter and energy??
Click to expand...
He can do anything that God can as stated by Uriel. Lucifer was just created as a companion to do one part with Michael doing the other. Elaine Belloc proves that he can although if I remember correctly that was prior to her gaining his power. So if she as guardian spirit can do that then a Demiurge can do so as well.
 
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
He can do anything that God can as stated by Uriel. Lucifer was just created as a companion to do one part with Michael doing the other. Elaine Belloc proves that he can although if I remember correctly that was prior to her gaining his power. So if she as guardian spirit can do that then a Demiurge can do so as well.
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So Michael can theoretically say just create a sun or a universe with its laws outright? and if yes what true part does the shaping power of Lucifer play in that case??
 
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
So Michael can theoretically say just create a sun or a universe with its laws outright? and if yes what true part does the shaping power of Lucifer play in that case??
Click to expand...
Yes, Michael can create a Universe. Lucifer plays the part that God demands that he shape as he did with Michael creating matter.
 
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
Yeah, they have a bigger and older history than most verses. There's “a lot” of missed or overlooked information. The only problem is consistency between writing due to that.
Click to expand...
I mean, having more history doesn't mean they're stronger, especially with the ridiculous amount of anti feats they have.
We know Superman has more instances of being unable to move a planet than him being above Tier 3.

And by guidebooks and writers, that's even more consistent.
 
Adr10K said:
I mean, having more hHistory doesn't mean they're stronger, especially with the ridiculous amount of anti feats they have.
Click to expand...
I literally pointed this out. The vaster and older history comes with more information regarding the cosmology but, in turn, causes more antifeat.
Adr10K said:
We know Superman has more instances of being unable to move a planet than him being above Tier 3.
Click to expand...
What a random example and you're singling out a moment. There's many more instances of him being higher than Tier 3 and greater feats that being “unable” to move a planet.

This just seems to indicate you have a vendetta against DC. If it’s wank if Superman is that high then I find it wanked that Ben 10 came even remotely come close to 1-A.
Adr10K said:
And by guidebooks and writers, that's even more consistent.
Click to expand...
There's a ton of those and I don't think you get the implication that they all don't agree and/or are all consistent. This is just common sense.
 
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
I literally pointed this out. The vaster and older history comes with more information regarding the cosmology but, in turn, causes more antifeat.
Click to expand...
That is not exclusive to the cosmology.
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
What a random example and you're singling out a moment. There's many more instances of him being higher than Tier 3 and greater feats that being “unable” to move a planet.
Click to expand...
Geez, no.
Clark and a ridiculous amount of DC and Marvel chars have explicit statements in heavy runs of being around planet level than being above that.
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
This just seems to indicate you have a vendetta against DC. If it’s wank if Superman is that high then I find it wanked that Ben 10 came even remotely come close to 1-A.
Click to expand...
First of all, no one is talking about B10, stop looking so salty pls.
Second, I also disagree with some of the verse's scaling, and same as this, I'm not gonna do shit against it because is more about how to power scale than being against the tier itself.
Last but not least, that's not true at all.
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
There's a ton of those and I don't think you get the implication that they all don't agree and/or are all consistent. This is just common sense.
Click to expand...
See? I'm not the type of person who goes against the writer's POV, yeah, the verse itself is superior to them (sometimes), but just going all the way to ignore statements in the work itself.
 
Adr10K said:
That is not exclusive to the cosmology.
Click to expand...
It is? What are you not getting about “more information” due to a vaster history?
Adr10K said:
Geez, no.
Clark and a ridiculous amount of DC and Marvel chars have explicit statements in heavy runs of being around planet level than being above that.
Click to expand...
Not every story requires multiversal feats, but powerscaling exists for a reason.
Adr10K said:
First of all, no one is talking about B10, stop looking so salty pls.
Second, I also disagree with some of the verse's scaling, and same as this, I'm not gonna do shit against it because is more about how to power scale than being against the tier itself.
Last but not least, that's not true at all.
Click to expand...
Ironic because I can mention things that I don't agree with as such you with the scaling for DC. So you're being hypocritical
Adr10K said:
See? I'm not the type of person who goes against the writer's POV, yeah, the verse itself is superior to them (sometimes), but just going all the way to ignore statements in the work itself.
Click to expand...
Inconsistency exists due to how much writers and stories there are in DC. So, we do the best with what we can for the Cosmology mainly from the stories and not WoG.
 
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