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General 4-A characters upgrade

Okay. Thank you for the help. It is very appreciated.
 
Hold up, we're treating pocket reality creation as destruction again (Calc wise)?
 
I suppose that you have a point. My apologies if I have messed things up. I have been distracted and busy with preparing the new forum and other tasks.
 
Why would a creation feat be worse than a destruction feat? I've actually read that the opposite is true. Two of the comments in the calc thread from staff members even say it applies to creation, and those comments are a few months old.
 
On second thought, I am uncertain if we are supposed to be this specific with creation feats, given that there is no true way of measuring the exact energy involved, rather than just slapping a vague tier on them.

Perhaps somebody should ask DontTalkDT and some more administrators to comment here?
 
Creating feats are definitely Attack Potency. And many of the listed examples also feature those realms getting shaken or destroyed upon the bosses defeat. Plenty of bosses have sort of this their energy is being passively produced to keep the realm stabilized in which it collapses when the boss is defeated.

So, most of the verses strolling above have legit 4-A feats.
 
Personally I prefer to not get too specific with creation feats. If it's just this I don't mind if people really want to use a calc like that, though.

IMO the calc is a high end, though, as it assumes that any starry night sky contains stars as far away as the furthest away star we can see in our starry sky. In principle one can have starry skies looking similar to ours with much less distant stars.

The low end could be closer to baseline, though not quite baseline.
 
I mean, if it's intended to visually mirror something based on an IRL scenery, I'd still go with realism. Although, a lot of those feats are often assumed to be universes (And I'd argue against that unless very specific). But having IRL Star constellations make it kind of a default for it to at least somewhat resemble parts of the Milky Way Galaxy. And actually, the Tetra Galaxy is visible in some parts of the world. I'm willing to actually stick to Kepekley's calculation but fine if people are iffy on it, but definitely agree the feats are 4-A.
 
So we do not need to reverse the edits due to the calculation being too specific then?
 
DontTalk appears to be more neutral; he said he's fine with it, but prefers to treat them as slightly above baseline or something. Perhaps are more mid end. But Kepekley's calculation is technically a mid end depending on perspective.
 
In regards to the Drawcia feat I put both the context of it and the calc we're using in this blog to make it more practical. Should I send it to be evaluated or could someone here go there or say something for people to know it's accepted?
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I mean, if it's intended to visually mirror something based on an IRL scenery, I'd still go with realism. Although, a lot of those feats are often assumed to be universes (And I'd argue against that unless very specific). But having IRL Star constellations make it kind of a default for it to at least somewhat resemble parts of the Milky Way Galaxy. And actually, the Tetra Galaxy is visible in some parts of the world. I'm willing to actually stick to Kepekley's calculation but fine if people are iffy on it, but definitely agree the feats are 4-A.
Click to expand...
Pocket reality starry skies might look similar to real life skies, but they are not based on them. That kinda goes with the idea of them being things in a completly different world of smaller size than ours.

Like, sure, no reason to assume that all the visible stars have Proxima Centauri distance, but I see no reason the assume that they have a star at least as far as that one furthest away star we can see either. Technically close to human settlements we can only see around 900 stars in the sky, so what many of us think of as a typical looking nightsky doesn't even have most of those really far away stars.

Especially for a calc that is for general use more conservative estimates should be used, in my opinion.
 
I'm not really a fan of using non universal creation feats for AP if there's no regular feats even in the same ballpark. Explicit matter to energy would be an exception here, or some specific reason beyond "same source" to scale. Such a change is clearly not gonna be applied rn, I was just told ant wanted staff opinions on creation feats so here we go
 
We're not going to revise pocket reality feats; not now, not ever based on the literally hundreds of discussions we had. Plus, I mention above that lots of them also have shaking and destroying said pocket realities in the process, so that satisfies the whole "I don't really like creation less than universal being AP" concerns. Though, DontTalk says he thinks a more mid end calculation for feats like this is more preferable.

Perhaps something like, "if there are X visible stars in the sky you go with number X on the list of closest stars to our solar system and calculate distance from that." Would that probably be a more preferable method DontTalkDT?
 
So should the edits that have been applied here to set a specific energy number to starry sky creation feats be reverted?
 
Elizhaa actually made another version which Spino appears to have accepted. And surprisingly, the result ended up higher than the original despite using the "Average visible star"
 
This is just a notification about that all discussion posts made after April 14 will disappear in the new forum, so if there are any important content revisions that need to be referenced in the new forum, please back them up here:

https://archive.org/web/

The threads can be updated with later backups if more posts are made in them.
 
Let's wait for more calc group support first.

Which of the two calculations do you prefer DontTalkDT?
 
Okay.
 
Well, the fundamental problem is if we should have placed a specific number on creation feats in the first place, rather than keep them vague. I am currently leaning against it.

Destruction feats are a very different issue.
 
It might be a good idea to revert the edits done due to this thread.
 
There's nothing to revert, just update the various blogs with the new one. Also the new blog is actually an upgrade.
 
So what's the difference now? How many times baseline?
 
It's 840637.450199x baseline now and about 312x away from a "+" sign. Also, lots of the examples actually do feature characters shaking or even destroying those dimensions they created.
 
Wtf, well I'm not complaining but **** talk about a boost.
 
I meant that the original linking in this thread to a set calculation for a destruction feat applied to characters that have only performed creation feats, should probably be reverted, as it is too specific, and creation and destruction feats likely do not exactly correspond.
 
Antvasima, we had a thread a while where it was decided that creation feat can scaled if connected characters' abilities.

This clarification was added to the Creation page:

  • Note that this only applies to the character's capacity to harm other characters if their Creation is connected to their other abilities; for example, it can be reasoned that a mage who can conjure a city with little mana can destroy one with the same amount of mana, however a character who can create objects without other ways of harming their opponents wouldn't be able to harness that power to hurt another character, and would fall under a light form of Environmental Destruction.
 
Yes, but I am uncertain if something that cannot technically be calculated should really get a specific calculated value, rather than just a more vague tier. We are pretending that creation and destruction are exactly equivalent that way, and there is really no way to accurately compare them.
 
Again, it would only scale to their full stats if their creation abilities are connected to the same power source.

If the creation feat is separate from their other methods of attacking like say, punching, we simply list the Creation feat as separate from their physical AP, but that doesn't mean we disregard the creation feat altogether.
 
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