Gecko Moria Low-Godly regen upgrade

[Ryuga21]

When the battle at Thriller Bark ends, the characters without they shadow are exposed to the sunrise. In the scan you can see that they begin to be erased from existence.

It has been shown before that those who have no shadow and are exposed to sunlight are erased from existence.

However, the same characters later receive their shadow back, and the existential erasure not only loses its effect, but they regenerate every part of their bodies that were erased. And this seems to occur due to the intrinsic property of shadow-body interaction.

As Gecko Moria can control his own shadow, in order to do anything he wants with it, having also the same characteristics as regular shadows, he should be able to resist EE and receive low-godly regeneration in the same way.

 

[Crabwhale]

Bruh

 

[KingTempest]

Oh shit

 

[Sinpokefan]

You know.... Im not even sure if Kings oh shit is from an: Are you joking? or An oh shit he is right.

 

[KingTempest]

You know.... Im not even sure if Kings oh shit is from an: Are you joking? or An oh shit he is right.

It's both

Like damn you actually attempted this
But damn this shit makes sense

 

[Crabwhale]

But damn this shit makes sense

You getting carpal tunnel from how much wanking you're doing yet or nah?

 

[LordGinSama]

Okay WhaleCrab.

 

[Crabwhale]

Shut the **** up, maple syrup man.

 

[Kachon123]

 

[karo_senpaii]

When the battle at Thriller Bark ends, the characters without they shadow are exposed to the sunrise. In the scan you can see that they begin to be erased from existence.

It has been shown before that those who have no shadow and are exposed to sunlight are erased from existence.

However, the same characters later receive their shadow back, and the existential erasure not only loses its effect, but they regenerate every part of their bodies that were erased. And this seems to occur due to the intrinsic property of shadow-body interaction.

As Gecko Moria can control his own shadow, in order to do anything he wants with it, having also the same characteristics as regular shadows, he should be able to resist EE and receive low-godly regeneration in the same way.

This should be moved to fun and games

 

[Deceived3596]

Yeah...

This is neither a resistance against EE nor does it provide a level of applicable regeneration, especially on the scale of Low-Godly.

I'll provide a more detailed argument on this later.

 

[Deceived3596]

The initial issue with this thread is that it completely misses the requirement needed for Low-Godly, which is the complete erasure of one's physical existence. Being capable of regenerating aspects of your physical body doesn't equate to you being capable of regenerating your entire physical existence after being erased. Until we see actual evidence of these characters regenerating their entire physical existence after being erased, or have statements of being capable of regenerating from that level of erasure. This cannot be qualified as Low-Godly.

The secondary issue is that this wouldn't provide any combat applicable regeneration, even assuming we ascribe a level to this feat. The regeneration, or "recovery" only occurs when an affected person of Moria's Devil Fruit has their shadow returned, counteracting the "erasure" effect of being "shadow-less" while interacting with sunlight.

This is disregarding the idea that this wouldn't even be a form of regeneration in the first place, since it's can be argued that this is just a weakness of the erasing capabilities of Moria's Devil Fruit rather than these characters having a level of applicable regeneration. It can be interpreted by the text that the characters were just in the "process" of being erased, not that those parts of the characters are completely removed from reality.

The last issue can be rectified depending on some confounding context, but do we have evidence of Gecko Moria being in direct contact with sunlight while his shadow is controlling Ors? It's been a long while since I read through Thriller Bark. Or are you arguing that shadows within One Piece provide an inherent resistance against Existence Erasure? If so, I completely disagree with Moria (and everyone else) having a resistance to EE for that reasoning. That's a weakness of lacking a shadow in series, not an actual resistance intrinsically granted by having a shadow.

 

[Kachon123]

I don't have an opinion on this topic, so I'm only replying to this part of your post, as this is the only thing that caught my eye.

The initial issue with this thread is that it completely misses the requirement needed for Low-Godly, which is the complete erasure of one's physical existence. Being capable of regenerating aspects of your physical body doesn't equate to you being capable of regenerating your entire physical existence after being erased. Until we see actual evidence of these characters regenerating their entire physical existence after being erased, or have statements of being capable of regenerating from that level of erasure. This cannot be qualified as Low-Godly.

People's bodies coming back from being EE'd comes from the idea that "the body and the shadow must have the same shape," so even if their entire body was erased and not just their top half, since their shadows are presumably the same as the body's original shape, they'd return back to their full body as well.

 

[Deceived3596]

People's bodies coming back from being EE'd comes from the idea that "the body and the shadow must have the same shape," so even if their entire body was erased and not just their top half, since their shadows are presumably the same as the body's original shape, they'd return back to their full body as well.

The issue with this is the recovery only occurs when it re-inhabits the body, it's by its sheer nature that this cannot be Low-Godly because they can't recover their physical existence after it's completely erased. They have nothing to inhabit anymore. Unless we have evidence, be it direct statements, feats, or probable implications, of this being capable of occurring without their physical body present. I don't find this reasoning sound.

 

[Kachon123]

The issue with this is the recovery only occurs when it re-inhabits the body, it's by its sheer nature that this cannot be Low-Godly because they can't recover their physical existence after it's completely erased. They have nothing to inhabit anymore. Unless we have evidence, be it direct statements, feats, or probable implications, of this being capable of occurring. I don't find this reasoning sound.

That's not my point. Like I said, whether it's Low-Godly regeneration or not doesn't matter to me, as I don't really have much of an opinion here. I was just replying to that one section of your post.

 

[Deceived3596]

That's not my point. Like I said, whether it's Low-Godly regeneration or not doesn't matter to me, as I don't really have much of an opinion here. I was just replying to that one section of your post.

I know? I acknowledged that, I just added further reasoning as to why I disagree with this interpretation (of the regeneration, not your point.)

 

[Crabwhale]

Yeah I agree with Deceived here, and quite frankly he's steelmanning with his counterarguments. This thread has absolutely no legs to stand on.

 

[Damage3245]

This definitely doesn't look like regeneration to me. Not a version of it applicable to any character including Moria.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Disagree for Deceived's reasons.

Also FTW

 

[Excellence616]

Disagree for Deceived reasons

 

[Ryuga21]

The initial issue with this thread is that it completely misses the requirement needed for Low-Godly, which is the complete erasure of one's physical existence. Being capable of regenerating aspects of your physical body doesn't equate to you being capable of regenerating your entire physical existence after being erased. Until we see actual evidence of these characters regenerating their entire physical existence after being erased, or have statements of being capable of regenerating from that level of erasure. This cannot be qualified as Low-Godly

“whether that be their soul, mind, some other non-physical aspect of themself, esoteric or metaphysical energy, or something else” — This is the point. Shadow and soul are homologous. Regenerating from your shadow is no different from regenerating from your soul. If your claim is that "their entire body had not been erased from existence to classify as low-godly", I don't disagree, but either way, the part that was erased from existence had a comeback (You can clearly see in the scan, the characters were headless, slowly turning completely into nothing, the process had Cleary been applied to the parts that disappeared).

The secondary issue is that this wouldn't provide any combat applicable regeneration, even assuming we ascribe a level to this feat. The regeneration, or "recovery" only occurs when an affected person of Moria's Devil Fruit has their shadow returned, counteracting the "erasure" effect of being "shadow-less" while interacting with sunlight.

At no point do I propose that this should be applied to any character other than just Moria. It was in fact something situational that occurred due to a rule of metaphysical energy of the verse that no one has control over, other than Moria himself.

This is disregarding the idea that this wouldn't even be a form of regeneration in the first place, since it's can be argued that this is just a weakness of the erasing capabilities of Moria's Devil Fruit rather than these characters having a level of applicable regeneration. It can be interpreted by the text that the characters were just in the "process" of being erased, not that those parts of the characters are completely removed from reality

I'll try to simplify things:

1. EE didn't happen because of Moria. Moria was already completely defeated when the characters were affected by sunlight, YET, they began to be erased.

2. The only thing Moria does is cut shadows, absorb shadows and control his own shadow in countless ways. All other abilities are guaranteed to him by the very metaphysical concept that governs shadows, as Sanji himself says: “from what I understand, the body and a shadow will always have the same shape”.

3. Therefore, this is not a weakness of Moria either, because it is something that his fruit does not set out to do, it just happens due to a rule of the verse that he can manipulate in some form.

4. They were in the process of being completely erased, you can visibly see that they were already partially reduced to nothing, complete erasure was only a matter of time by sunrise.

The last issue can be rectified depending on some confounding context, but do we have evidence of Gecko Moria being in direct contact with sunlight while his shadow is controlling Ors?

He was in full sunlight during Marineford while his shadow was off his body.

It's been a long while since I read through Thriller Bark. Or are you arguing that shadows within One Piece provide an inherent resistance against Existence Erasure?

I'm not saying that. Moria does have it, no one but him.

If so, I completely disagree with Moria (and everyone else) having a resistance to EE for that reasoning. That's a weakness of lacking a shadow in series, not an actual resistance intrinsically granted by having a shadow.

I never said it was resistance for them. The fact is that the characters in the scene were regenerated from their own shadow. If Moria has full control of his own shadow, it stands to reason that he could also regenerate in the same way the same characters were regenerated.

 

[Ryuga21]

Yeah I agree with Deceived here, and quite frankly he's steelmanning with his counterarguments. This thread has absolutely no legs to stand on.

My arguments are a syllogism according to what was shown in the series, how do they not have legs? I didn't see any argument of you, other than a "bruh".

 

[Damage3245]

I never said it was resistance. The fact is that the characters in the scene were regenerated from their own shadow. If Moria has full control of his own shadow, it stands to reason that he could also regenerate in the same way the same characters were regenerated.

How do you account for the fact that Moria has never used his shadow to recover from injuries? Such as when we see him bandged up and still recovering after the events of the Thriller Bark arc? If he could restore his body to pristine condition by manipulating his shadow, why wouldn't he?

 

[Ryuga21]

How do you account for the fact that Moria has never used his shadow to recover from injuries? Such as when we see him bandged up and still recovering after the events of the Thriller Bark arc? If he could restore his body to pristine condition by manipulating his shadow, why wouldn't he?

Because these injuries don't change the shape of the shadow, his ability isn't a cure and I never said it was.

 

[Deceived3596]

“whether that be their soul, mind, some other non-physical aspect of themself, esoteric or metaphysical energy, or something else” — This is the point. Shadow and soul are homologous. Regenerating from your shadow is no different from regenerating from your soul. If your claim is that "their entire body had not been erased from existence to classify as low-godly", I don't disagree, but either way, the part that was erased from existence had a comeback (You can clearly see in the scan, the characters were headless, slowly turning completely into nothing, the process had Cleary been applied to the parts that disappeared).

I specifically was talking about the fact their bodies were never fully erased. I never disagreed with the idea that shadows in this context can't grant Low-Godly, I just disagree with the idea that regaining your shadow, which can recover your physical form mid erasure, means you're capable of recovering your physical body after it's completely erased.

If you don't disagree with my contention of Low-Godly, are you fine with dropping said Low-Godly point? as I can't see how you can be fine with my argument while also agreeing with Low-Godly when my argument is completely antithetical to Low-Godly.

At no point do I propose that this should be applied to any character other than just Moria. It was in fact something situational that occurred due to a rule of metaphysical energy of the verse that no one has control over, other than Moria himself.

I never specifically said that you did, I was just addressing a probable interpretation from your post since you didn't specify either or.

I'll try to simplify things:

1. EE didn't happen because of Moria. Moria was already completely defeated when the characters were affected by sunlight, YET, they began to be erased.

2. The only thing Moria does is cut shadows, absorb shadows and control his own shadow in countless ways. All other abilities are guaranteed to him by the very metaphysical concept that governs shadows, as Sanji himself says: “from what I understand, the body and a shadow will always have the same shape”.

3. Therefore, this is not a weakness of Moria either, because it is something that his fruit does not set out to do, it just happens due to a rule of the verse that he can manipulate in some form.

4. They were in the process of being completely erased, you can visibly see that they were already partially reduced to nothing, complete erasure was only a matter of time by sunrise.

I don't care to address this as until you can ascribe a level of regeneration for the collection of feats you have brought forth, discussing if this is regeneration or not is unimportant, and only extends the word count of our posts. Which is something I don't want this thread to devolve into, bible texting each other.

He was in full sunlight during Marineford while his shadow was off his body.

I guess I would be fine with resisting EE (with my current knowledge), but I will allow others to comment on this before completely cosigning either interpretation.

I never said it was resistance. The fact is that the characters in the scene were regenerated from their own shadow. If Moria has full control of his own shadow, it stands to reason that he could also regenerate in the same way the same characters were regenerated.

I disagree with the reasoning which you stand upon, but I want to get an actual, arguable level of regeneration before discussing if this is actually regeneration that's combat applicable or not.

 

[Ryuga21]

I specifically was talking about the fact their bodies were never fully erased.

Yes, they weren't, but only partially. Regenerating from a partial EE falls under what type of regeneration? (I always thought it was low-godly lol).

If you don't disagree with my contention of Low-Godly, are you fine with dropping said Low-Godly point? as I can't see how you can be fine with my argument while also agreeing with Low-Godly when my argument is completely antithetical to Low-Godly.

I'm fine if low-godly doesn't fit, since it was a partial EE regeneration and not a full one. But I don't know how it would fit.

I disagree with the reasoning which you stand upon, but I want to get an actual, arguable level of regeneration before discussing if this is actually regeneration that's combat applicable or not.

It should be regeneration limited to EE only or a resistance could fit better. It's quite simple how this would apply in combat, Moria can manipulate his own shadow, shadows in One Piece can prevent a body from being erased from existence, so Moria resists/can prevent EE through manipulating your own shadow.

 

[Deceived3596]

Yes, they weren't, but only partially. Regenerating from a partial EE falls under what type of regeneration? (I always thought it was low-godly lol).

It would only fall under the amount of physical damage done to the body (for example: if it only erased the head and that's it, it would only get Mid despite the fact it's erasing said physical part on a metaphysical level as it's just affecting that much of the body's physical self)

You would just explain in his regeneration that he can also regenerate from minor erasure if that gets accepted.

I'm fine if low-godly doesn't fit, since it was a partial EE regeneration and not a full one. But I don't know how it would fit.

Alright

It should be regeneration limited to EE only or a resistance could fit better. It's quite simple how this would apply in combat, Moria can manipulate his own shadow, shadows in One Piece can prevent a body from being erased from existence, so Moria resists/can prevent EE through manipulating your own shadow.

I'm fine with Moria having a resistance to Existence Erasure if he wasn't erased after removing his shadow from his body despite being in direct sunlight. I don't agree with giving him a resistance to Existence Erasure because he can manipulate his shadow, and that shadows within One Piece grant intrinsic properties, like a resistance to Existence Erasure. I completely disagree with that line of logic.

 

[Crobatman44]

Disagree with Low godly FRA but im interested on where EE res could go
Wecko Woria Tanks Futen Taisatsuryo

 

[Ryuga21]

So you agree with a certain regeneration as well. It shouldn't be more than Mid? since the partial regeneration feat is from an EE damage.

I'm fine with Moria having a resistance to Existence Erasure if he wasn't erased after removing his shadow from his body despite being in direct sunlight. I don't agree with giving him a resistance to Existence Erasure because he can manipulate his shadow, and that shadows within One Piece grant intrinsic properties, like a resistance to Existence Erasure. I completely disagree with that line of logic.

Alright, since him not being erased when removing his own shadow from his body during sunlight is a feat of resistance. The manipulation part of his own shadow is for regeneration.

 

[Crabwhale]

My arguments are a syllogism according to what was shown in the series, how do they not have legs? I didn't see any argument of you, other than a "bruh".

Aight.

First of all this is a conclusion based on a flawed logical deduction. You are assuming the absence of shadow metaphysically erases a character from existence when in the sunlight, except there is nothing directly referring to such a thing in the Thriller Bark arc. Every time dying in the sunlight is brought up, it's always referred to by terms like "disintegration" or "melting". You're already making a leap of assumption to think that absolutely nothing is left of the physical body when the manga never uses any terms except those relating to essentially burning up in the sun, which would not warrant Low-Godly regeneration. There are also terms like "vanish" and "disappear", yes, but those in no way contradict the other instances of the burning nature of the death, which I should also point out are more numerous.

Second of all, you're selectively using scans to prop up your argument. That scans of Robin saying "our existence was nearly erased"? Not there in the official translation. Says "disappear" instead, which doesn't really indicate anything.

Third of all, there's the issue of the shadows being outright incapable of regenerating a body if it's gone. Your own thread concept contradicts itself. You can't have a shadow build a body back up from nothing, because they are both extensions of each-other. Moria can't create an entirely new body with a stolen shadow, they're still tethered to the original owner, and if that owner gets burnt in the sun completely there's nothing to indicate the shadow could bring them back. Similarly, Moria can't play God and bring someone or himself back from any level of death with his power, existence erasure or otherwise. He can only reanimate bodies that are (for the most part) relatively intact.

Fourth of all, even if you ignore all of that, there's still the problem that Deceived pointed out in which you can't extrapolate Low-Godly from what we've got even if all your other assumptions are correct.

That's my final word on this. Consider me thoroughly disapproving at best.

 

[Deceived3596]

Just for further clarification, the reason why I didn't delve into the semantics of "vanish" or "erased" is because we currently accept Gecko Moria's stuff as having Existence Erasure.

 

[Crabwhale]

Which I believe is stupid, but that's a conversation for another day.

 

[Rez]

When the battle at Thriller Bark ends, the characters without they shadow are exposed to the sunrise. In the scan you can see that they begin to be erased from existence.

It has been shown before that those who have no shadow and are exposed to sunlight are erased from existence.

However, the same characters later receive their shadow back, and the existential erasure not only loses its effect, but they regenerate every part of their bodies that were erased. And this seems to occur due to the intrinsic property of shadow-body interaction.

As Gecko Moria can control his own shadow, in order to do anything he wants with it, having also the same characteristics as regular shadows, he should be able to resist EE and receive low-godly regeneration in the same way.

They are being disintegrated, turned to dust this is not EE, EE is complete physical erasure, this will be nothing more than low high or mid high regeneration. As to whether this is even regeneration (I disagree with it being regeneration) I am in no made for taking part in that debate.

Disintegrate= To break or decompose into constituent elements, parts, or small particles

As we can see in the actual visual depiction and brook's statement this is not EE

 

[KingTempest]

The issue with this is the recovery only occurs when it re-inhabits the body, it's by its sheer nature that this cannot be Low-Godly because they can't recover their physical existence after it's completely erased. They have nothing to inhabit anymore. Unless we have evidence, be it direct statements, feats, or probable implications, of this being capable of occurring without their physical body present. I don't find this reasoning sound.

Did you not read the OP?

This is referencing Moria, who's shadow is always with him, who can change the shape of his shadow, which means he can regenerate his body

 

[Deceived3596]

KT, if you read what I said very closely, I was speaking within the confines of LOW-GODLY.

Not me discussing if Gecko Moria has regeneration or not.

The argument would still remain the same, the onus would be on you to prove that after Moria's entire physical existence is erased, he can regenerate his body. That's how you get Low-Godly, end of story.

 

[Rez]

They are being disintegrated, turned to dust this is not EE, EE is complete physical erasure, this will be nothing more than low high or mid high regeneration. As to whether this is even regeneration (I disagree with it being regeneration) I am in no made for taking part in that debate.

Disintegrate= To break or decompose into constituent elements, parts, or small particles

As we can see in the actual visual depiction and brook's statement this is not EE

Just checked Moria's profile seems like disintegration cause of shadows is already accepted as EE just ignore this

 

[Crabwhale]

Did you not read the OP?

This is referencing Moria, who's shadow is always with him, who can change the shape of his shadow, which means he can regenerate his body

1. Never shown using that application. No statements or feats. This is extrapolation from a basic statement about control that doesn't relate in any way to regen. You can shapeshift all you want, doesn't mean you can grow back the shape if the meat behind it gets cut off.

2. The only damage shown to be reversed via shadow is one being actively caused by shadow absence. This is the very definition of a special circumstance.

 

[KingTempest]

1. Never shown using that application. No statements or feats. This is extrapolation from a basic statement about control that doesn't relate in any way to regen. You can shapeshift all you want, doesn't mean you can grow back the shape if the meat behind it gets cut off.

2. The only damage shown to be reversed via shadow is one being actively caused by shadow absence. This is the very definition of a special circumstance.

They blatantly say the law of how the control of the body is based on the control of the shadow is the exact same law that allows their body to regenerate when more than half of it is turned into dust

Said shadow absence that Moria controls all the time, as he's damn near always disconnected from his shadow

Moria's shadow can be returned to him and can place his body in whatever shape it was prior to said destruction. Simple logic which is for some reason hard to understand.

KT, if you read what I said very closely, I was speaking within the confines of LOW-GODLY.

Not me discussing if Gecko Moria has regeneration or not.

The argument would still remain the same, the onus would be on you to prove that after Moria's entire physical existence is erased, he can regenerate his body. That's how you get Low-Godly, end of story.

So it wouldn't be low godly, it'd just be whatever regen is given next to that

 

[Crabwhale]

They blatantly say the law of how the control of the body is based on the control of the shadow is the exact same law that allows their body to regenerate when more than half of it is turned into dust

Said shadow absence that Moria controls all the time, as he's damn near always disconnected from his shadow

Moria's shadow can be returned to him and can place his body in whatever shape it was prior to said destruction. Simple logic which is for some reason hard to understand.

Cool, why didn't he do it during Marineford when Doffy was kicking his ass? Or at any point during Thriller Bark?

Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence but at this point you can't say a character can do something he literally has never shown himself doing, unless you're insinuating Moria is a ******* idiot and doesn't understand how his own power works. Which, I think, is not a good assumption.

 

[Godernet]

Crab in an OP thread? That's how you know this argument ain't it.

Disagree FRA