One Piece: Shadow Erasure

[Deagonx]

I'm inclined to agree with Crab and Deceived. The term "disintegrate" coming up repeatedly in regards to this, IMO, casts too much uncertainty on the claim they're being literally erased from existence rather than just destroyed in a more conventional sense to grant this in my opinion.

 

[Kachon123]

I obviously agree with the OP.


Deceived, Metaphysical Destruction of an individual isn't the only way Existence Erasure can be granted. That is just very common in most cases, so a lot of users assume that to be the case. If you were to read the page, it never claims that such is needed. In fact, it quite literally indicates that while Metaphysical Destruction can be Existence Erasure, it's not a requirement:

Existence Erasure is the simple power to remove something from existence, leaving nothing behind, a level of destruction beyond incineration, vaporization, and atomization. Powerful enough uses of this ability can even erase the mind and soul, if not more fundamental aspects of one's existence, such as concepts.

The wording in the sentence, specifically the usage of 'powerful enough' implies that being able to preform Metaphysical Destruction is a step above normal Existence Erasure, which would be regular destruction "leaving nothing behind, a level of destruction beyond incineration, vaporization, and atomization."


Crabwhale and Deagonx, the only mention of disintegration came from Brook and a random pirate. 2 individuals whose knowledge comes from what they've seen happen to others. Literally every other source states a version of complete destruction being a result of stepping into the sun after losing your shadow. From the people being erased themselves, to WoG databooks. On top of that, as KingTempest brought up in the OP, a part of the individual's body needs to be remained in order to come back from the effects of the Sun. If those without shadows were simply being disintegrated, which according to Crabwhale's dictionary definition is to "break down into smaller parts," they would be able to come back, which we know is not possible.


tl;dr, Deceived is misunderstanding the requirements for Existence Erasure, and Crabwhale's logic that Deagonx agreed with is inherently flawed due to the nature of the ability itself.

 

[Damage3245]

On top of that, as KingTempest brought up in the OP, a part of the individual's body needs to be remained in order to come back from the effects of the Sun. If those without shadows were simply being disintegrated, which according to Crabwhale's dictionary definition is to "break down into smaller parts," they would be able to come back, which we know is not possible.

Just want to note that it isn't said that so long as the tiniest fragment of the victim's body remains, the shadow can successfully return to them. If the victim's body had fully deconstructed then presumably the restoration would not work as Robin noted that they were saved "in the nick of time", meaning before the process of being deconstructed / erased was completed. Under that interpretation, the issue you raised of the shadow potentially returning to them even post-deconstruction would not be an issue.

 

[Kachon123]

Just want to note that it isn't said that so long as the tiniest fragment of the victim's body remains, the shadow can successfully return to them. If the victim's body had fully deconstructed then presumably the restoration would not work as Robin noted that they were saved "in the nick of time", meaning before the process of being deconstructed / erased was completed. Under that interpretation, the issue you raised of the shadow potentially returning to them even post-deconstruction would not be an issue.

Why would the restoration not work? The reason the body gets restored post-erasure is due to the idea that the shadow and the body must have the same shape. Why would being deconstructed be a limit to this?

 

[Damage3245]

Why would the restoration not work? The reason the body gets restored post-erasure is due to the idea that the shadow and the body must have the same shape. Why would being deconstructed be a limit to this?

We don't know that the restoration would work if the characters were completely reduced to just dust. When the characters were saved in the manga, it was in the nick of time before they were completely disintegrated.

 

[Kachon123]

We don't know that the restoration would work if the characters were completely reduced to just dust.

Could you answer my question of why that would be a limit?

When the characters were saved in the manga, it was in the nick of time before they were completely disintegrated.

Because there was nothing left of them to be restored, hence why it's Existence Erasure and not Deconstruction.

 

[Damage3245]

Could you answer my question of why that would be a limit?

There's no reason why that wouldn't be a limit. We know that the shadow can't return to the body after a certain amount of time in the sunlight.

Because there was nothing left of them to be restored, hence why it's Existence Erasure and not Deconstruction.

Or it's because there wouldn't be enough of them left to be restored. No actual "body" for the shadow to return to if it's just dust.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I’m still in agreement with the OP, and when it comes to the nature of EE, I don’t get where this idea of it needing to be on a metaphysical level comes from. That’s not how we treat EE

 

[Kachon123]

There's no reason why that wouldn't be a limit.

The fact that the body's shape must be the same of its shadow. If they got reduced to dust, said dust would need to have a shadow as well, and since the shadow would be in the shape of the original shape, they would be returned to normal.

 

[Damage3245]

The fact that the body's shape must be the same of its shadow. If they got reduced to dust, said dust would need to have a shadow as well, and since the shadow would be in the shape of the original shape, they would be returned to normal.

Unless that just doesn't work, of course. In either interpretation there is still a time limit for when the shadow is able to return to the body.

 

[Kachon123]

Regardless, could you mention what specifically your contention with the OP is? So far you haven't done so.

 

[Damage3245]

Regardless, could you mention what specifically your contention with the OP is? So far you haven't done so.

So far I haven't cast a vote, I was just addressing a point from your arguments.

 

[Kachon123]

So far I haven't cast a vote, I was just addressing a point from your arguments.

Alright then.

 

[Arcker123]

Agree with the OP.

There's enough evidence for the erasure on at least a physical level.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Agree with the OP.

There's enough evidence for the erasure on at least a physical level.

based

 

[LordGinSama]

Rare Deceived L.

Still agree with the OP, there isn't any type of "metaphysical existence erasure" standard for EE. Going by that logic half of the people who have EE here wouldn't have even gotten it to begin with.


Secondly, them being deconstructed isn't an anti feat for erasure. TSB from Naruto can break shit down on a atomic level, yet we still give them EE via statements of erasure, so I do find it very hypocritical to accept that but deny this.

 

[Godernet]

I agree with Limited EE

However, I do think the EE page should be more clear by putting the descriptions of the types of EE on the EE page so that there's no more confusion.

Because there definitely are some levels to EE.

For example:

- EE that erases the body from existence disregarding conventional durability to unalive them.

- EE that can erase the soul and prevent regen on that level.

- EE that affects people temporally across timelines, etc.

 

[Kachon123]

I agree with Limited EE

Quick question, what's the justification for why it would be limited?

 

[Godernet]

Quick question, what's the justification for why it would be limited?

Moria cant erase people from existence if there isn’t a sun out. His ability to erase people is dependent on external factors that are outside of his control and won’t always be present for him in combat scenarios to use this way along with him needing to prep this reaction by taking their shadows. That’s what makes it limited.

Because the ability is restricted by a set of rules or conditions to be used effectively or has flaws that make it less effective than other abilities of that class.

At least that’s how I’ve mostly seen the limited rating used.

 

[Nierre]

Limited EE FRA

 

[Godernet]

Tho tbf there is also an argument to be made about how Moria's power works mechanically anyways.

Does removing the shadow make a target more susceptible to the sun's rays? And if so are people who are immune to the radiation, heat, and potency of the sun now immune to being erased by Moria's Kage no mi?

If so an argument can be made that this ability is a status-inducing one that reduces an opponent's resistance to the heat and power of the sun to be non-existent when they don't have a shadow, erasing them on contact(though I'm not completely sold on that interpretation anyway.)

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Tho tbf there is also an argument to be made about how Moria's power works mechanically anyways.

Does removing the shadow make a target more susceptible to the sun's rays? And if so are people who are immune to the radiation, heat, and potency of the sun now immune to being erased by Moria's Kage no mi?

If so an argument can be made that this ability is a status-inducing one that reduces an opponent's resistance to the heat and power of the sun to be non-existent when they don't have a shadow, erasing them on contact(though I'm not completely sold on that interpretation anyway.)

Anyway, I'm honestly fine with Limited EE.

 

[Godernet]

Anyway, I'm honestly fine with Limited EE.

who said you could leave the basement? those Sannin profiles aren't gonna finish themselves.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

who said you could leave the basement? those Sannin profiles aren't gonna finish themselves.

Already done with the Sannin I care about, I delegated the morbid hoe so someone else.

 

[Kachon123]

Thanks Godernet. How does this sound for how it should be worded on Moria's page:

Limited Existence Erasure (Those who have had their shadows taken from them will have their bodies completely erased when being exposed to sunlight, with any form of restoration being impossible without their shadow being returned)

 

[Godernet]

Thanks Godernet. How does this sound for how it should be worded on Moria's page:

that works

 

[KingTempest]

There's no reason why that wouldn't be a limit. We know that the shadow can't return to the body after a certain amount of time in the sunlight.

Yeah, specifically cause their body existed, not this headcanon of there being enough of em

 

[Ryuga21]

If this gets accepted, then come back from this damage dealt would be rated as what level of regeneration?

 

[KingTempest]

If this gets accepted, then come back from this damage dealt would be rated as what level of regeneration?

Depends on the body amount removed. No one can come back from the full EE since that would require the whole body to be gone, but maybe whatever’s below the level of vap

 

[Lynieryz]

Agree FRA
Possibly Limited Minor Existence Erasure when?

 

[Kidkinsey]

Possibly Limited minor would be hilarious. At that point don't even give it

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Lyn was making a joke

 

[Kidkinsey]

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Kinsey you jacking KT here?

 

[Kidkinsey]

Yup I'm jacking him

 

[Godernet]

stop jacking him bruh

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

KT was telling me it feels good

Spoiler: Jacking Haki

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

not even crabwhale holds a candleto your gayness.

 

[Kachon123]

Kinsey with the Advanced Jacking Haki

 

[Kidkinsey]

I'm jacking Acoc tbh