Garlic Jr.(Immortal) vs Kaguya Houraisan

[Drac32Drac]

A match between immortals! Not very often when you can actually find such a match that makes any sense.

Rules, bloodlusted with no prep time. The match is likely to come down to stamina and BFR for the victory, so debate away!

 

[Promestein]

Oh christ.

Garlic gets forever time stopped through eternity manipulation before he can transform.

 

[Drac32Drac]

Assume he's already transformed...

And we don't know that Kaguya can actually 'stop' time... even if she does have what appears to be time powers. I know what you meant by that though.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

It's kinda worse than time stop tbh, since nearly no one has resistence to such things.

 

[Drac32Drac]

Well, since no one has bothered to debate what Kaguya actually can and can't do... now would be the time to do it!

Also, Garlic Jr DID escape the deadzone of his own accord with his enhanced powers. This could be relevant depending on what Kaguya's BFR is determined to actually be.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

It stops any change from being done to your body by applying the concept of eternity on it. That's all it is.

 

[Drac32Drac]

Ahh, so you're saying she's going to turn him immortal? That's the exact same description used to describe her immortality. It's not so easy to figure out if she can actually do what you suggest.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

It's not really that. Similar but not exactly. It just rejects any changes, so you can't move or react or anything.

 

[Promestein]

Well, since no one has bothered to debate what Kaguya actually can and can't do... now would be the time to do it!

Also, Garlic Jr DID escape the deadzone of his own accord with his enhanced powers. This could be relevant depending on what Kaguya's BFR is determined to actually be.

Garlic escaped because the Makyo Star grew closer and closer to Earth, where he was sealed into the Dead Zone.

The Dead Zone is another universe. Eternity manipulation just traps you in an instant, forever, and doesn't allow any change or movement. He'd be stuck there forever, as he doesn't have the abilities to resist something on that scale.

 

[Drac32Drac]

For the record, I DO understand what you're talking about. I'm questioning whether she can actually pull off that feat. The best canonical instances of her using her abilities anything like that are in the Bamboo Forest, which basically turned it into a trippy hall of mirrors(I'm assuming by warping space into some kind of weird mobius strip), and in the nearly eternal hallway... which did have an end eventually.

 

[Promestein]

Why wouldn't she be able to use it to stop someone in time? I'm pretty sure it was stated that she can. The Hourai Elixir is derived from her power, also.

Besides, we don't assume enough physical strength gives someone the ability to resist time manipulation, so why would this be any different?

 

[Drac32Drac]

If it was stated that she can stop someone in time, please find it for me and we can lock this thread as a stomp as well as update her profile.

As for physical strength... because Garlic Jr. didn't just punch his way out of the Deadzone, he shattered the boundaries of that universe to escape. Big difference there.

 

[Drac32Drac]

As far as I'm aware, the uses Kaguya has displayed of her powers are, Bamboo Forest shenanigans(trippy), the hallway shenanigans(ludicrously long hallway that did have an end), hiding Eintei(time did still pass, but it was arguably a trippy experience), and as an ingredient of the Hourai Elixir. I can't stress enough that her ability's involvement in the creation of the elixir was only partial.

Recently, her feat to 'resume time' in IN has come into question as to what she actually did. There should be another thread that debates that feat.

What I haven't been able to find is any feats, implications, or even rumors within touhou canon that suggests that she can actually lock someone in a literal instant and trap them in an eternal stasis. It would be foolish to just assume that she can without some healthy debate. It would be like assuming that Yukari can kill anyone by manipulating the boundary of life and death. We don't know what her application of that manipulation actually does.

 

[Andykhang]

kind of an old necro here, but here's the proof. They didn't have any reason to lied either:

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Kaguya_Houraisa