Gaara vs Toph

[Kachon123]

Toph FRA.

 

[Bruhtelho]

Toph FRA

 

[LordEscanor]

It sucks if i lose this because no one has any points on why toph wins she loses in range and close range garaa honestly ****** slaps np but here we are

 

[Kachon123]

It sucks if i lose this because no one has any points on why toph wins she loses in range and close range garaa honestly ****** slaps np but here we are

In close range, she wins. She can deflect his sand, and has higher ap. Gaara's shield won't be able to block, and Toph also can control every single building and roads in the area. Garra only has the sand in his gourd, while Toph has the entire battlefield. Toph also has vastly higher skill and battle sense. Gaara struggles to keep up with his own sand, and Toph can use that to her advantage, delivering a decisive blow on him.

 

[Blahblah9755]

Besides with his constant sand shiriken attack he uses on naruto right? Or sand storm devastation ? Or his extending attacks in transformed stage right? Or even the fact he catches people with sand coffin constantly?

No. In his fight with Naruto, sandstorm devastation was the only one of those techniques that was depicted as covering a range higher than the low to mid tens of meters (excluding the attack that happened while he was fully transforming). Does he use sand coffin at higher ranges during the second exam?

 

[LordEscanor]

In close range, she wins. She can deflect his sand, and has higher ap. Gaara's shield won't be able to block, and Toph also can control every single building and roads in the area. Garra only has the sand in his gourd, while Toph has the entire battlefield. Toph also has vastly higher skill and battle sense. Gaara struggles to keep up with his own sand, and Toph can use that to her advantage, delivering a decisive blow on him.

Besides in close combat a close combat specialist lost right? She definetly doesn't beat garaa cause she will just attempt to bend his sand when she can't and doesnt realize till its too late. They are the same speed besides when garaa amps herself so she can't even be fast enough to beat his sand what a joke. And when he amps himself hes faster then her and stronger it isn't a fight lol

 

[LordEscanor]

No. In his fight with Naruto, sandstorm devastation was the only one of those techniques that was depicted as covering a range higher than the low to mid tens of meters (excluding the attack that happened while he was fully transforming). Does he use sand coffin at higher ranges during the second exam?

He does against the rain ninja and those sand shriken are definetly farther then 10 meters lmao

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Besides in close combat a close combat specialist lost right? She definetly doesn't beat garaa cause she will just attempt to bend his sand when she can't and doesnt realize till its too late. They are the same speed besides when garaa amps herself so she can't even be fast enough to beat his sand what a joke. And when he amps himself hes faster then her and stronger it isn't a fight lol

She can definitely bend his sand. Literally no reason to why she can't do it

 

[LordEscanor]

She can definitely bend his sand. Literally no reason to why she can't do it

Then clearly you haven't read any of my post lmao, not only is he far superiour with sand then her, its being influenced by chakra which she can't bend. So controlled by someone better and by something she can't control. Yikes, just gave ya 2.

 

[LordEscanor]

Then clearly you haven't read any of my post lmao, not only is he far superiour with sand then her, its being influenced by chakra which she can't bend. So controlled by someone better and by something she can't control. Yikes, just gave ya 2.

Did I mention the sand is sentient? Like alive? Which in every demonstration of living things being handed you need specific training for such as plant life or blood? Cause you the sand has garaa's mom's soul in it right? So yeah living sand scary. She will definetly try tho and be killed in the process

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Even though no one has been shown to preform a justu similar to that one using earth release, and chidori is a piercing attack designed for a thing as his, she hasn't demonstrated such ability with her bending. She hasn't demonstrated such feats or even say that its as good as her metal bending says she's better doesn't mean shes on garaas level with it. And even with precog you can be overwhelmed his attacks are then faster then her and she wouldn't be able to keep up.

Yeah, there are a lot of techniques no one has made something similar to, that's not something special. Basically every noteworthy ninja has one unique skill at least.

She can make her rocks tak on a spiked shape to help its piercing effect.

The point is that she would be able to theoretically control it to at least some extent. Especially if he passively lets it protect him like usual without even trying to control it, she'll definitely be able to move it, and Gaara will probably be enclosed by his own sand and hurt badly before he event tries maintaining control. If he manages to win it over, that's fine, her earthbending is still superior. She can pull a Gaara vs Edo Madara and use the earth at Gaara's feat to **** him.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Did I mention the sand is sentient? Like alive? Which in every demonstration of living things being handed you need specific training for such as plant life or blood? Cause you the sand has garaa's mom's soul in it right? So yeah living sand scary. She will definetly try tho and be killed in the process

Why will her trying kill her? That makes no sense.

 

[Blahblah9755]

He does against the rain ninja and those sand shriken are definetly farther then 10 meters lmao

Not ten. Tens, plural. He only uses sand coffin at around a 10-20m distance there.

 

[LordEscanor]

Yeah, there are a lot of techniques no one has made something similar to, that's not something special. Basically every noteworthy ninja has one unique skill at least.

She can make her rocks tak on a spiked shape to help its piercing effect.

The point is that she would be able to theoretically control it to at least some extent. Especially if he passively lets it protect him like usual without even trying to control it, she'll definitely be able to move it, and Gaara will probably be enclosed by his own sand and hurt badly before he event tries maintaining control. If he manages to win it over, that's fine, her earthbending is still superior. She can pull a Gaara vs Edo Madara and use the earth at Gaara's feat to **** him.

Spiked rock doesn't beat a chidori and it hardly tagged him as well. Being able to see using sand... A working eye. Colors and all. Thats insaine skill.

 

[LordEscanor]

Why will her trying kill her? That makes no sense

Do you mean why would the sand try to kill her? Because garaa wants to ****** murder at this point in the story

 

[LordEscanor]

Not ten. Tens, plural. He only uses sand coffin at around a 10-20m distance there.

Fair enough. Got anything to demonstrate over 100 meters for toph?

 

[PrinceofPein]

Can someone send a scan of her sensing something mid air? Cause I can not remember anything of such in the behind the scenes and why would we take the behind the scenes over canon info? As she could not sense the airship flying or missiles or robots dropping even though they are made of metal

 

[LordEscanor]

Can someone send a scan of her sensing something mid air? Cause I can not remember anything of such in the behind the scenes and why would we take the behind the scenes over canon info? As she could not sense the airship flying or missiles or robots dropping even though they are made of metal

See I'm just giving them that but even if she can its still a garaa win but if she can't kinda stomp lmao

 

[Blahblah9755]

Fair enough. Got anything to demonstrate over 100 meters for toph?

No, I was just saying that Gaara’s in character moves wouldn’t give him a range advantage. Toph doesn’t have one either.

Can someone send a scan of her sensing something mid air? Cause I can not remember anything of such in the behind the scenes and why would we take the behind the scenes over canon info? As she could not sense the airship flying or missiles or robots dropping even though they are made of metal

The Death Battle Gaara vs Toph video actually has good scans for it. At 8:02 they show her reacting to someone swinging on a rope, and at 15:14 they show the directors commentary scene that says she can do so, which includes a clip of her blocking the earth bending of someone who only fired off the rocks after being in mid-air.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Can someone send a scan of her sensing something mid air

https://i.redd.it/h7z6d159kfy41.jpg

If you meant the WoG then its point 88 under the "Blind Bandit" section.

88. Did you know: Toph can feel the earth even if it isn't connected to the ground?

 

[LordEscanor]

No, I was just saying that Gaara’s in character moves wouldn’t give him a range advantage. Toph doesn’t have one either.

The Death Battle Gaara vs Toph video actually has good scans for it. At 8:02 they show her reacting to someone swinging on a rope, and at 15:14 they show the directors commentary scene that says she can do so, which includes a clip of her blocking the earth bending of someone who only fired off the rocks after being in mid-air.

Alright just clarifing ranges thats fine

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Spiked rock doesn't beat a chidori and it hardly tagged him as well. Being able to see using sand... A working eye. Colors and all. Thats insaine skill.

It does when its Toph's AP is higher than Sasuke's. And it hardly tagged him through his absolute strongest barrier, and still made him bleed considerably.

You're really overblowing that seeing skill. He can already see, it's just adding another eye to his vision. Toph has to start from scratch, and developed more detailed "vision" than that eye could ever hope to have. She basically has the Byakugan active 24/7.

Also you didn't tell me how he'd counter he using the earth at his feet.

 

[PrinceofPein]

It does when its Toph's AP is higher than Sasuke's. And it hardly tagged him through his absolute strongest barrier, and still made him bleed considerably.

He broke the barrier with rakiri, rakir can hurt people far above the league of the wielder

 

[MinatoSparkle]

He broke the barrier with rakiri, rakir can hurt people far above the league of the wielder

Unquantifiably so though, while we have a clear difference between Gaara and Toph. And again, ground beneath Gaara gg.

 

[LordEscanor]

It does when its Toph's AP is higher than Sasuke's. And it hardly tagged him through his absolute strongest barrier, and still made him bleed considerably.

You're really overblowing that seeing skill. He can already see, it's just adding another eye to his vision. Toph has to start from scratch, and developed more detailed "vision" than that eye could ever hope to have. She basically has the Byakugan active 24/7.

Also you didn't tell me how he'd counter he using the earth at his feet.

A concentrated barried is superior to that bubble one, a few drips isn't considerably. She was trained by moles and was already blind thats not a learning gap. She also an idiot. No formal teaching compared to garaa, and whats stops garaa from earth styling at hers? Besides garaa going for the kill and she wouldn't cause they're in character. And where in the madara fight are you talking about I just went through it and didn't see it. We are talking about an eye do you not know how complex an eye is let alone allowing it to see.

 

[LordEscanor]

Unquantifiably so though, while we have a clear difference between Gaara and Toph. And again, ground beneath Gaara gg.

Ground against toph gg lmao my point makes more sense

Unquantifiably so though, while we have a clear difference between Gaara and Toph. And again, ground beneath Gaara gg.

Also he could just turn the ground underneath him into sand so what now? So now I have garaa ******** on toph gg ez

 

[LordEscanor]

And the next time you compare sensing vibrations in ground to a byakugan I can't take you seriously

 

[Qawsedf234]

Also he could just turn the ground underneath him into sand so what now?

Nothing really. Toph can sense him turning the ground to sand, so there's no surprise factor. On the other hand Gaara has no ability to guess what Toph can do a the start and she can counter his sand armor. He has advantages but Toph seems like she can handle most of them pretty well.

 

[LordEscanor]

Nothing really. Toph can sense him turning the ground to sand, so there's no surprise factor. On the other hand Gaara has no ability to guess what Toph can do a the start and she can counter his sand armor. He has advantages but Toph seems like she can handle most of them pretty well.

How does she counter sand armour? And even if she can sense it doesn't mean she won't try to bend it which wouldn't work and then boom dead.

 

[Qawsedf234]

How does she counter sand armour?

Sand bending

nd even if she can sense it doesn't mean she won't try to bend it which wouldn't work

She's stronger than Gaara, so she wins in terms of an elemental control contest. Her skill with sand is also comparable or superior to this version of Gaara since he has nothing on her casual city replica showing.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Sand bending

No she is not bending a sentient sand

Toph FRA tho, as shukaku is restricted here, but if it is not even partial form shukaku is enough to end toph

 

[Qawsedf234]

No she is not bending a sentient sand

Only the sand shield is sentient. Gaara's sand armor is his own thing, as are a decent chunk of his ranged attacks. She's also stronger than he is in terms of AP, so her winning an elemental control battle isn't that outlandish.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Only the sand shield is sentient. Gaara's sand armor is his own thing, as are a decent chunk of his ranged attacks. She's also stronger than he is in terms of AP, so her winning an elemental control battle isn't that outlandish.

Elemental control will be under part of Lifting strength, who has the higher LS here? They are both class M, but which value

 

[Purgy]

Sand bending

She's stronger than Gaara, so she wins in terms of an elemental control contest. Her skill with sand is also comparable or superior to this version of Gaara since he has nothing on her casual city replica showing.

Why exactly would AP be relevant to controlling sand? Gaara has vastly higher lifting strength by virtue of how much sand he controls and coincidingly has manipulated far more sand at once iirc.

 

[Purgy]

Elemental control will be under part of Lifting strength, who has the higher LS here? They are both class M, but which value

Gaara is 200x+ stronger in lifting strength

 

[LordEscanor]

Only the sand shield is sentient. Gaara's sand armor is his own thing, as are a decent chunk of his ranged attacks. She's also stronger than he is in terms of AP, so her winning an elemental control battle isn't that outlandish.

Thats rough cause his sand is control with chakra which is life force. She can't bend that.

 

[Blahblah9755]

Elemental control will be under part of Lifting strength, who has the higher LS here? They are both class M, but which value

Gaara’s actually missing lifting strength for this key. His first lifting strength key uses the same feat as his second AP key.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Elemental control will be under part of Lifting strength, who has the higher LS here?

Ah you're right. I didn't even consider that for some reason. For Gaara I'm not sure, since the page is using a feat from the second key for his first key's lifting strength. I'd guess somewhere in the Class K range due to that Lee fight.

Thats rough cause his sand is control with chakra which is life force.

Do you have a scan supporting that statement? So far you've provided nothing and the thing you tried to prove was demonstrably wrong.

 

[LordEscanor]

Ah you're right. I didn't even consider that for some reason. For Gaara I'm not sure, since the page is using a feat from the second key for his first key's lifting strength. I'd guess somewhere in the Class K range due to that Lee fight.

Do you have a scan supporting that statement? So far you've provided nothing and the thing you tried to prove was demonstrably wrong.

Which would you like? That fact that to bend any living form that you would need special training such as the swamp tribe of water benders bending vines or blood bending? Or do I need to pull out chakra being lifeforce? Cause both are valid. What was demonstratebly wrong? Both makes sense and are correct

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Then clearly you haven't read any of my post lmao, not only is he far superiour with sand then her, its being influenced by chakra which she can't bend. So controlled by someone better and by something she can't control. Yikes, just gave ya 2.

Isn't Chakra just magic energy or something?

And even if it's infused with Chakra, sand is still sand, and Toph certainly can control that. He also can't trap her due to her superior LS with bending