Gaara vs Toph

[Purgy]

Wdym she would make it even more difficult? Also who says she's not as good at bending it? Her power is greater, so she'd be able to wrestle control from him. And he's restricted to 8-B, so no Shukaku

See above

Shukaku doesn't have a tier listed on Gaara's profile so it can't be restricted and we know Gaara's transformation was weaker than Shukaku itself so it isn't 6-C either, just far stronger than Gaara.

 

[LordEscanor]

Shukaku doesn't have a tier listed on Gaara's profile so it can't be restricted and we know Gaara's transformation was weaker than Shukaku itself so it isn't 6-C either, just far stronger than Gaara.

Also the moment toph can use her bending to legitimately see like with his third eyes instead of sensing then I'll believe toph is better lmao

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Toph can sense everything around her with vibrations. And in much greater precision than even regular vision

And since she can also sense airborne sand attacks, Toph can easily sense and counter Gaara's attacks

 

[MinatoSparkle]

He gets the partial transformation. Also he's shown better control with sand through feats. Her higher AP doesn't come from manipulating sand.

He's listed as higher than 8-B though. And even then, I don't think his partial transformation state would necessarily net him the win, just give her a tougher time. She'd also likely kill him before he enters that state. She's a fast, efficient fighter, as seen when she systematically took down those earth benders in her debut

True her higher AP doesn't come from manipulating sand, but her higher AP is from manipulating earth, which his sand is made of.

Shukaku doesn't have a tier listed on Gaara's profile so it can't be restricted and we know Gaara's transformation was weaker than Shukaku itself so it isn't 6-C either, just far stronger than Gaara.

Shukaku is 6-C. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Shukaku_(Ichibi)

If you mean his partial transformation then sure, but just refer to above.

Also the moment toph can use her bending to legitimately see like with his third eyes instead of sensing then I'll believe toph is better lmao

Her vision is honestly better than actual eyes', so she's better anyways.

 

[LordEscanor]

He's listed as higher than 8-B though. And even then, I don't think his partial transformation state would necessarily net him the win, just give her a tougher time. She'd also likely kill him before he enters that state. She's a fast, efficient fighter, as seen when she systematically took down those earth benders in her debut

True her higher AP doesn't come from manipulating sand, but her higher AP is from manipulating earth, which his sand is made of.

Shukaku is 6-C. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Shukaku_(Ichibi)

If you mean his partial transformation then sure, but just refer to above.

Her vision is honestly better than actual eyes', so she's better anyways.

We are talking skill demonstration legitimate vision is higher skill then partial/sensing. Second yes sand is earth but those AP feats are shown with different earth, she herself says sand isn't like normal earth bending its different and she isn't that good with it neither. I don't believe she could defeat garaa's defense in time for the partial transformation. And if he is partial doesn't that count as speed amp and then hes just faster then her? If not she still can't beat his partial.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

We are talking skill demonstration legitimate vision is higher skill then partial/sensing. Second yes sand is earth but those AP feats are shown with different earth, she herself says sand isn't like normal earth bending its different and she isn't that good with it neither. I don't believe she could defeat garaa's defense in time for the partial transformation. And if he is partial doesn't that count as speed amp and then hes just faster then her? If not she still can't beat his partial.

How is that higher skill? That's just another ninjutsu which all ninja have, but Toph's skill is something completely original and extremely thorough.

Well she's gotten good enough at it that it might as well be normal earth. Like metal bending.

She could definitely beat his defense, even without sandbending, just overwhelming it with sheer AP similar to the Chidori. And she can spam her higher AP moves to his defense as opposed to Sasuke who can only do it a few times a day.

Even if he's faster, her semi precog with her sensing will still allow her to react just fine to him.

 

[LordEscanor]

How is that higher skill? That's just another ninjutsu which all ninja have, but Toph's skill is something completely original and extremely thorough.

Well she's gotten good enough at it that it might as well be normal earth. Like metal bending.

She could definitely beat his defense, even without sandbending, just overwhelming it with sheer AP similar to the Chidori. And she can spam her higher AP moves to his defense as opposed to Sasuke who can only do it a few times a day.

Even if he's faster, her semi precog with her sensing will still allow her to react just fine to him.

Even though no one has been shown to preform a justu similar to that one using earth release, and chidori is a piercing attack designed for a thing as his, she hasn't demonstrated such ability with her bending. She hasn't demonstrated such feats or even say that its as good as her metal bending says she's better doesn't mean shes on garaas level with it. And even with precog you can be overwhelmed his attacks are then faster then her and she wouldn't be able to keep up.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

And even with precog you can be overwhelmed his attacks are then faster then her and she wouldn't be able to keep up.

Speed is equalized. No one is faster than the other here. You seem to not understand this

Toph reacted to multiple strong benders attacking her at the same time, so yeah she would have no problem defending against him

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

You know, if garaa realizes that she can see earth and sand very clearly, wouldn't he just attack with something she can't sense, like a kunai or a regular jutsu that isn't earth style?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

You know, if garaa realizes that she can see earth and sand very clearly, wouldn't he just attack with something she can't sense, like a kunai or a regular jutsu that isn't earth style?

That wouldn't work as well. Toph could easily sense him throwing the Kunai from his movements and dodge accordingly

Also, aren't Kunais made of metal?

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

Reading through all of this, I think I'm switching my vote to Toph FRA.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

That wouldn't work as well. Toph could easily sense him throwing the Kunai from his movements and dodge accordingly

Also, aren't Kunais made of metal?

That's true. No bro kunai are made of wood.
Anyway, how can she sense garaa if he starts hovering in the air with sand?

 

[LordEscanor]

That wouldn't work as well. Toph could easily sense him throwing the Kunai from his movements and dodge accordingly

Also, aren't Kunais made of metal?

Garaa doesnt use kunai he uses sand

 

[LordEscanor]

That's true. No bro kunai are made of wood.
Anyway, how can she sense garaa if he starts hovering in the air with sand?

She can sense earth in the air

 

[LordEscanor]

Reading through all of this, I think I'm switching my vote to Toph FRA.

I just gave garaa more speed, higher durability, better sand skills, and overwhelming strength and you're giving it to toph! Traitor lmao

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I just gave garaa more speed, higher durability, better sand skills, and overwhelming strength and you're giving it to toph! Traitor lmao

Speed is equal. Again

 

[LordEscanor]

I literally gave him a speed amp with partial transformation increasing speed with an ability changes the speed equalization

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Garaa doesnt use kunai he uses sand

Then she easily sense him no matter where he is. Going airborne will change nothing for Gaara. He still can't deal well with her semi-precognition

 

[LordEscanor]

Speed is equal. Again

Try again my guy

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

How can she sense the earth that is in the sky, her whole ability is seismic sense, which she feels the vibrations in the earth, so if he's in the sky then she can't sense him.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I literally gave him a speed amp with partial transformation increasing speed with an ability changes the speed equalization

Then if he would win, it cannot be added since his attack speed is slower than Toph's reactions, and if a slower character can blitz a faster character with speed equal, then the battle can't be added.

Though since I still think that Toph beats him regardless, that is still ok

 

[LordEscanor]

Then she easily sense him no matter where he is. Going airborne will change nothing for Gaara. He still can't deal well with her semi-precognition

Just because you see something coming doesnt mean you can dodge it. You can see a bullet fly at you doesn't mean you're fast enough to dodge said bullet

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

How can she sense the earth that is in the sky, her whole ability is seismic sense, which she feels the vibrations in the earth, so if he's in the sky then she can't sense him.

It’s stated in the behind the scenes of the season 2 DVD. It says she can feel earth even if it’s not connected to the ground.

There you go.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Just because you see something coming doesnt mean you can dodge it. You can see a bullet fly at you doesn't mean you're fast enough to dodge said bullet

No you can't see a bullet flying. A bullet would blitz any human easily, as it flies waaaay fasyter than out reaction speed. Also, if he blitzes her with his speed amp, it can't be added

 

[LordEscanor]

Then if he would win, it cannot be added since his attack speed is slower than Toph's reactions, and if a slower character can blitz a faster character with speed equal, then the battle can't be added.

Though since I still think that Toph beats him regardless, that is still ok

And if they are set on speed equal yes then any amp gives them more speed changes this. Here like base goku vs krillin speed equal. Then you say goku has kiaokin which amps his speed changing the speed which is what garaa is doing with partial transformation

 

[LordEscanor]

And

No you can't see a bullet flying. A bullet would blitz any human easily, as it flies waaaay fasyter than out reaction speed. Also, if he blitzes her with his speed amp, it can't be added

And im not claiming to see a bullet its an example. And also I never claimed a blitz just faster

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

And if they are set on speed equal yes then any amp gives them more speed changes this. Here like base goku vs krillin speed equal. Then you say goku has kiaokin which amps his speed changing the speed which is what garaa is doing with partial transformation

Krillin doesn't start as faster than Goku though, so that's a bad example.

DB in general is a bad example for your point because unless you're called Dyspo or Burter, the stronger you are, the faster you are too

 

[LordEscanor]

Krillin doesn't start as faster than Goku though, so that's a bad example.

DB in general is a bad example for your point because unless you're called Dyspo or Burter, the stronger you are, the faster you are too

I was giving an example ya might understand. But here lets go with with naruto. Naruto vs pain. Naruto sage mode amps his speed but if you use that naruto then he can use sage mode. Base naruto not as fast as him camping with sage mode. Check and mate.

 

[LordEscanor]

I was giving an example ya might understand. But here lets go with with naruto. Naruto vs pain. Naruto sage mode amps his speed but if you use that naruto then he can use sage mode. Base naruto not as fast as him camping with sage mode. Check and mate.

Krillin doesn't start as faster than Goku though, so that's a bad example.

DB in general is a bad example for your point because unless you're called Dyspo or Burter, the stronger you are, the faster you are too

Or goku against napp similar in speed then goku uses kaiokin gets faster. You have to go with goku kaioken speed equal vs nappa then it's still a stomp cause of AP difference. Instead I can amp garaa with partial transformation making him faster then toph

 

[Cropfist]

Toph for reasons above.

 

[LordEscanor]

Can't bend his sand, more skilled, stronger, faster, shit even smarter not being formally educated like garaa but man people still think toph

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Or goku against napp similar in speed then goku uses kaiokin gets faster. You have to go with goku kaioken speed equal vs nappa then it's still a stomp cause of AP difference. Instead I can amp garaa with partial transformation making him faster then toph

Goku was toying with Nappa the entire time. At no point was Nappa even remotely comparable to Goku. Again, using DB is a bad example because in almost all cases, being stronger than your enemy also = being faster than them

Naruto maybe works differently so it might work there

 

[LordEscanor]

Goku was toying with Nappa the entire time. At no point was Nappa even remotely comparable to Goku. Again, using DB is a bad example because in almost all cases, being stronger than your enemy also = being faster than them

Naruto maybe works differently so it might work there

Im just expressing how an amp works. So garaa being faster and stronger. There just isn't anything toph has to put garaa down but with garaa being like that eventually overwhelming and beats her.

 

[LordEscanor]

Im just expressing how an amp works. So garaa being faster and stronger. There just isn't anything toph has to put garaa down but with garaa being like that eventually overwhelming and beats her.

Not including he can just turn the ground under her into sand and as soon as she tries to bend it not being able to compete will have her legs broken immediately

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Not including he can just turn the ground under her into sand and as soon as she tries to bend it not being able to compete will have her legs broken immediately

Toph can easily escape being trapped by sand or earth. She got Sokka out of the same situation easily

 

[LordEscanor]

Toph can easily escape being trapped by sand or earth. She got Sokka out of the same situation easily

Besides the fact that those people didnt compress a body to the point it bursted into blood like garaa did against the hidden rain ninja lol it doesnt help she can't really bend the sand so she either has to react fast enough to move out of the sand too bad she is being grabbed and having her leg broken

 

[LordEscanor]

Besides the fact that those people didnt compress a body to the point it bursted into blood like garaa did against the hidden rain ninja lol it doesnt help she can't really bend the sand so she either has to react fast enough to move out of the sand too bad she is being grabbed and having her leg broken

Not even the adding on the fact that he would also be using sand shower so she either needs to move out of the sand or take a direct hit from garaa sand shower only making it worse for her. Not including he can just rush it up her body and kill her instead. Of course she would have to realize she couldn't bend the sand first and then die trying.

 

[Blahblah9755]

Not switching it yet, but I’m taking my vote off Gaara, I remembered he doesn’t really abuse range outside of the range Toph is comfortable with at this point in the series. Gonna think about this a bit more.

 

[LordEscanor]

Not switching it yet, but I’m taking my vote off Gaara, I remembered he doesn’t really abuse range outside of the range Toph is comfortable with at this point in the series. Gonna think about this a bit more.

Besides with his constant sand shiriken attack he uses on naruto right? Or sand storm devastation ? Or his extending attacks in transformed stage right? Or even the fact he catches people with sand coffin constantly?

 

[Nierre]

Toph fra