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Gaara vs Toph
- Thread starter Zamasu_Chan
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Gilad_Hyperstar
He/Him- 11,188
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Huh. Never thought to see these two in the same tier
What do they scale to in AP?
What do they scale to in AP?
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- Thread starter
- #3
Gaara scales above 19.58 tons and Toph is 35.2 tons.
Coolboy6
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Toph seems to have around a 2x advantage, but Gaara seems more versatile with stat and speed amps, instinctive reactions, sealing and paralysis inducement. so I’m voting him.
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- Thread starter
- #5
Just to let you know, Gaara can’t use speed amps to win because he’s the slower character. That’s a rule we have on the wiki
But everything else is fine.
Coolboy6
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Gilad_Hyperstar
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Speed amps are fine to take into consideration if they only make the conclusion more decisive, but don’t change the outcome.
I think Toph’s advantages here are initial AP and durability, and the fact that she would generally have a better grasp on Gaara’s strategies than he on hers since seismic sense could detect stuff like sand armor, sand clones, sand moving underground, and attempts to create or abuse blind spots.
I’m not sure if her ability to condense sand into rock-ish solids would do any good, since the shield of sand often does something similar and can still be controlled.
Gaara weirdly doesn’t have a lifting strength leg for this key (the first lifting strength key on his page uses the same feat as his second AP key, so that obviously doesn’t scale to this key), so can’t say who holds the advantage in terms of quantity of earth they can move, and I believe since his sealing is also typically based on burying the opponent, this might mean that will be ineffective here.
I still think Gaara holds the advantage though, the more free form nature of his sand control gives him a solid edge over Toph, there’s no need for wind-up movement and there’s control over a larger number of separate attacks. He also seems to hold the range advantage for his attacks. So with those and the reasons above, I’m voting Gaara.
I think Toph’s advantages here are initial AP and durability, and the fact that she would generally have a better grasp on Gaara’s strategies than he on hers since seismic sense could detect stuff like sand armor, sand clones, sand moving underground, and attempts to create or abuse blind spots.
I’m not sure if her ability to condense sand into rock-ish solids would do any good, since the shield of sand often does something similar and can still be controlled.
Gaara weirdly doesn’t have a lifting strength leg for this key (the first lifting strength key on his page uses the same feat as his second AP key, so that obviously doesn’t scale to this key), so can’t say who holds the advantage in terms of quantity of earth they can move, and I believe since his sealing is also typically based on burying the opponent, this might mean that will be ineffective here.
I still think Gaara holds the advantage though, the more free form nature of his sand control gives him a solid edge over Toph, there’s no need for wind-up movement and there’s control over a larger number of separate attacks. He also seems to hold the range advantage for his attacks. So with those and the reasons above, I’m voting Gaara.
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PrinceofPein
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No that is not true, speed amps are still viable whether he is the slower one or not
It is just that when the slower character has a speed amp that can blitz after speed is equalized, the matches cannot be added
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Gaara FRA.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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If Gaara's speed amps would blitz Toph, then it cannot be added
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She has a harder time sensing in sand, as well as bending sand. Garaa can turn larger landscapes into sand like he did against the bone guy. As well as the ability to fly and she can't bend life based material such as wood so the sand in garaas groud wouldn't be able to be blended since it has his mother's soul.
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She can’t bend wood because it’s not Earth, not because it’s organic (and having a soul doesn’t make something life based, it makes it possessed). This is also Chuunin exam Gaara, who hasn’t displayed that level of quantity.
Flight’s a good point, since it takes high concentration to bend stuff that’s not connected to any earth in your reach, it’d be hard to affect Gaara’s sand while he’s in the air.
Flight’s a good point, since it takes high concentration to bend stuff that’s not connected to any earth in your reach, it’d be hard to affect Gaara’s sand while he’s in the air.
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He still has that sand during the 4th great ninja war protects him against his father. Also she says she can't cause its living I just rewatched it lol. The only benders who do are the swamp people. I just feel she can't keep up with garaa with his range, moves, and larger aoe attacks
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If I'm correct I believe life force is the exact words and you could classify soul as that
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garaa slaps.
Coolboy6
He/Him- 7,434
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But he doesn’t tho
Gilad_Hyperstar
He/Him- 11,188
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Considering Toph is blind and cannot see the opponent while he's in the air, If Gaara would fly, then it's game over for Toph
Though isn't it a borderline stomp?
Though isn't it a borderline stomp?
Coolboy6
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I don’t think Gaara would lead with flight tho
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- Thread starter
- #21
This is Gaara’s 8-B key. His 7-C one is what changed the landscape.
Also Toph can sense the earth even when it’s in the air.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Wait, can she? I don't recall when she does
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It’s stated in the behind the scenes of the season 2 DVD. It says she can feel earth even if it’s not connected to the ground.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Well, if so, then she can just dodge the sand attacks from Gaara and react to them normally
Also, Toph's Sandbending skills have really improved since the Library Episode, as seen here, so she could reflect and redirect these just fine
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Gaara cuts her a bit,leaks some sand in her wounds and takes control of her
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Even if she is better at it its still one of her weaker skills not even comparable to garaa, garaa can manipulate more of the enviroment. Not including there isn't any way that she is hitting garaa let alone defeating him. Sand tsunami to overwhelm her unable to deal with that much at one time going instead for a defensive approach in which garaa will turn it to sand and sand burial her which is stated to be several times stronger then steel she wouldn't be able to keep up.
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Dude. This is NOT his 7-C key. He can’t use Sand Tsunami.
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Even without sand tsunami she doesn't have strong enough moves yes she's a prodigy in earth bending but nothing she does compares to garaas defenses.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Toph can control sand much like Gaara, so if you meant that then this point is moot. Also, she will be able to see him as long as he touches the ground or connected to it, and since she can see the sand attacks, she can counter it just fine with her own attacks
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False she doesnt control it to the extent that garaa does not even close. Again its one of her weakest bending. She can't even touch him let alone keep up with his sand
MinatoSparkle
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Contrary to popular belief, I actually feel like Toph might take it. She's certainly far more skilled, and she's more powerful. She can manipulate his sand, and since his primary moveset in his base key is standing there and let his sand do his work for him, having his sand turn against him would be very bad for him. If he encases, she'll turn that encasing into spikes to plunge into him. If he tries to overpower her control, she'll win with her superior strength, and she'd easily block all of his attacks, considering she can use anything around her, whereas in New York (SBA location), Gaara only has access to the sand in his gourd, maybe a bit of sand here and there. He really doesn't have anything against her in this form. He's too reliant on his OP sand, so against an opponent for whom that advantage is actually a disadvantage, he'll really struggle.
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If its a control vs control match then in this incarnation Toph wins not Gaara. She scales to a higher feat and has showcased more total unamped elemental control than Gaara has, along with a greater degree of precession. There are versions of Gaara that stomp Toph but I'm not sure if this is one of them.
Gilad_Hyperstar
He/Him- 11,188
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Yeah. While Toph initially was not able to effectively control sand, this version of Toph is more than capable of doing so
She can definitely "see" him as long as he is on the ground (via vibration manip) and can bend his sand very well, as shown in this video. She's a master Earthbender who managed to defeat 6 highly skilled Earthbenders at once, and this is just in her debut, as since she traveled with the Gaang she sigificantly improved in her bending skills
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Alright lets clear some things up, he can still turn the environment as shown in the chunun exams in the forest against the ninja of the rain. He turns the ground into sand underneath the ninja to trap him. So he isnt limited to just the groud. Second she can't bend his sand. At all, she states herself she can't bend things with lifeforce. The sand that garaa uses is infused with his chakra and chakra described as the users life force. So she can't bend his sand and if she attempts realizes she can't not only suprized but possibly defeated right then and there. But lets say she blocks it. She then can't penetrate his absolute defense, let alone his auto defense with his mother's lifeforce to protect garaa. This isnt a control fight if you can't control it. This then gives garaa an edge also his wider range of attacks is still too much to handle. I'm not arguing she can't see him cause she can. She just can't beat him.
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But also add the fact in the fight garaa throws kunai so fast they catch fire which would take 3780 miles per hour so I hope toph can move fast
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Toph can just easily get herself out with her own bending. Trying to trap her will do nothing
When did she ever stated that??? In Avatar there's no sand with life force it, so I don't know in which regard she said that
Gilad_Hyperstar
He/Him- 11,188
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Speed is equal. And Toph scales to guys that reacted to lightning multiple times (Zuko, Aang). Dodging lightning >>>>>> Kunai catching fireBut also add the fact in the fight garaa throws kunai so fast they catch fire which would take 3780 miles per hour so I hope toph can move fast
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Thats why she can't bend wood, wood has life force stated by her when she was captured. And also this isn't a movement speed feat its an attack and attacks speed doesn't mean its the person's speed. And her movement speed wouldn't scale to them toph isn't shown reacting to lightening like zuko or iroh. And I'm saying the sand has lifeforce so she can't bend it
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Here's the episode's transcript. Where does it mention spirits, life force or anything like that?
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