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Fullmetal Alchemist Regenerationn revision

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I'd be fine with potentially Low-Godly for Father and Hohenheim, but not Pride, I don't see why he would get it. If it's based on "Father gave him a similar body as his own" that's only referring to the fact that Pride's real body resembles Father's blacks sphere thing in appearance, not that he made him a philosopher stone body. And having his soul attacked directly is just soul manip resistance. Unless there was something else brought up for Pride, I disagree with him getting the potentially Low-Godly rating.
 
I'll be making another post soon about the other Homunculi potentially getting a better Regenerationn rating, and I'll do more research on the composition of the stone itself. For now we can apply a "possibly Low-godly" on Father and Hohenheim. Pride should also get this as well, I'll address the comment above soon.


Edit: I'll update my blog.
 
Antvasima said:
It seems like we have mostly come to an agreement to use Promestein's solution then.
Click to expand...
So should we apply this, with possible modification for what Ogbunabali said?
 
No, Ogbun isn't the one who made the suggestion. A flat out rating of Possibly Low-Godly Regenerationn is what's agreed on for Father, Hohenheim and possibly Pride. We're still discussing the other Homunculi and I've invited Matthew to comment here since he's a knowledgeable FMA supporter.
 
Promestein said:
I'm still on the fence about Low-Godly for those three. I'd be better with "At least Low-High, possibly Low-Godly". It'd be nice if the three of them had regen feats, but they don't.
Click to expand...
Wasn't this the agreed solution?
 
Either one works, however if we go with that suggestion it'll make the pages for cluttered and we'll have to revise the low-high Regenerationn at a later point, hence why a flat out rating of "possibly low-godly" Regenerationn would be better. Father and Hohenheim don't have actual stones, since they themselves are stones, they don't have the same anti-feats are the other Homunculi so low-high would be redundant. Father and Hohenheim don't scale to the average Homunculi regen since they have their own feats to scale from.
 
I actually agree with @The Prince of Counters about it just being "possibly Low-Godly" the Low-High rating comes from homunculi regening from their stones, which these two don't have. So they either have Low-Godly or some arbitrarily lower regen, which we don't know exactly how much.

I still disagree with Pride, as his Low-Godly comes from nowhere.
 
Can you actually explain why you think that's better? An actual legitimate reason would be nice, given Father and Hohenheim have their own feats they can scale to as opposed to scaling them to both Homunculi regen feats and their own feats. It's redundant when we can simply use the latter as opposed to the former. An outright rating of Possibly Low-Godly would be better given they scale to their own feats.
 
I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can notify me later via my message wall if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion.
 
High-Mid is objectively false so no, we're not going to be using that. Also I wouldn't say that Prom's suggestion is what we're ultimately going with, as other users agree with a flat out rating of Possibly Low-Godly for Father and Hohenheim. There's absolutely zero reason to scale them to standard Homunculi Regenerationn, when they're vastly superior and have Regenerationn feats of their own. Also the Stone isn't limited to that of a Stone, as stated by Marcoh, it can take the form of several stated of matter. Matter can range from gases, solids, liquids, etc.


And we're still discussing the Homunculi Regenerationn here, which nobody has countered Scar's Sub-Atomic Deconstruction.
 
Low-High is fine, in my view. I checked again; I think most people agree on At least Low-High, Possibly Low-Godly for Father (Fullmetal Alchemist), Van Hohenheim and Pride compared to the rating of Possibly Low-Godly for Father and Hohenheim; so, At least Low-High, Possibly Low-Godly might end up being applied.

>And we're still discussing the Homunculi Regenerationn here, which nobody has countered Scar's Sub-Atomic Deconstruction.

I think this point was associated with High-Regenerationn above. Gluttony regenerating Scar's Sub-Atomic Deconstruction is not High Regenerationn; objectively speaking, the Regenerationn looks to be Mid Regenerationn. To get the High Regenerationn, the definition of High Regenerationn would need to be follow where Homunculi would need to regenerate from a "few scattered or lone molecules, atoms, or sub-atomic particles".

 
I'm not talking about the damage done to gluttony but rather his stone. Which is what we're basing the Regenerationn of the Homunculi off of. What I can settle for the Homunculi is "At Least Low-High, possibly High for the Stone." this in turn would be "At least High, possibly Low-Godly" for Father and Hohenheim. Scar deconstructed the stone, so at the very least the Stone itself would have High.

Edit: By Elizhaa, my bad, I accidentally edited my message i; fixed
 
The Prince of Counters said:
I'm not talking about the damage done to gluttony but rather his stone. Which is what we're basing the Regenerationn of the Homunculi off of. What I can settle for the Homunculi is "At Least Low-High, possibly High for the Stone." this in turn would be "At least High, possibly Low-Godly" for Father and Hohenheim. Scar deconstructed the stone, so at the very least the Stone itself would have High.
Click to expand...
Objectively speaking, I would need to need more evidence of the stone destroyed to agree with those Regenerationn proposals.
 
Elizhaa said:
Objectiveky speaking, I would need to need more evidence of the stone destroyed to agree with those Regenerationn proposals.
Click to expand...

I don't have an x-ray of the manga scan, but Scar deconstructed Gluttony's internals ( where he attacks most of the time. ) and the Stone is apart of Gluttony's insides. What he know is that Gluttony's insides were deconstructed and the stone by extension considering it's his heart. This one is pretty cut clear, no Mangaka is going to zoom into the insides of something just so we can see what's happening.


The Stone itself would have High Regenerationn, even if only as a possibly. The Stone is the heart of the Homunculi and Scar's Deconstruction targets major Organs, brains, lungs, hearts, etc.
 
I think my opinion will stay the same but I am willing to ask more inputs later on your recent proposals, The Prince of Counters.
 
Unfortunately opinions don't mean much in the face of actual facts. Scar targets organs such as the heart, lungs and brains with his Deconstruction and Gluttony's heart is the stone. To say that Scar didn't deconstruct the heart is a terrible counter-argument considering he's been using these types of tactics since day one of the manga.


I'm not sure what's so hard to comprehend this, and if possible I'd like to hear why you disagree. So far you haven't even stated why, which isn't a legitimate reason.
 
There's no reason to believe Scar's Deconstruction did anything to Gluttony's Stone. Scar's Deconstruction didn't do anything to Edward's auto-mail arm (might have been leg, don't remember) the first time he tried to kill Ed, showing the Deconstruction is material specific. We have no idea what material the stone counts as, but it's probably not the standard carbon of the normal human body.
 
See folks, that's a valid counter argument right there. Not just "I disagree" and leaving it at that, so I'll thank Kyle for giving an actual reason.


Tbh Scar's Deconstruction is pretty inconsistent in that regard, since he deconstructed Al's metallic armor without even knowing he's just a walking suit of armor. As for the stones composition the closest thing we have is Edward stating it's a high energy substance, aside from that there's not much.
 
Alchemy requires one to understand the materials you are altering.

Scar might understand the metal of armour or the component's of the human body to deconstruct them, but not the composition of the philosopher's stone, thereby making him unable to deconstruct them
 
I may be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure even alloy composition changes introduce problems for deconstruction. Wasn't there an attempt to deconstruct the Briggs auto-mail and it didn't work? [Haven't read the manga and haven't watched the anime in a while (no Netflix)].

Does Scar at the point he's fighting Gluttony know that the Philosopher's Stone is made of transmuted human souls? If not, he certainly couldn't attempt to deconstruct the stone.

Has he ever demonstrated the ability to deconstruct two materials at once? He definitely had to deconstruct Gluttony's body to reach the Stone in the first, but if he can't deconstruct two materials at once, then he couldn't have attempted to deconstruct the Stone in the same attack.
 
Also I completely disagree with any notion of the homunculi (including Father and Hohenheim) having Low-Godly, even "possibly". The stones may be made of condensed souls, but they are still very much a small physical object that can be damaged by anyone with enough force without NPI or soul manipulation. They can regenerate from the stones, which are small enough to mean Low-High, but nothing more.

Also, they do not regenerate from souls, this is not the same as the LDO from Dies Irae. They use the energy contained within the stones to reform their bodies. That's it. They convert the souls in their bodies to fuel and use that fuel to regrow. Completely different situation.
 
Actually forgot the analysis part of Alchemy tbh, that reminds me to add a certain ability for Alchemists once I get around to that CRT.


But yeah, actual arguments where given, which I appreciate so I'm fine with Low-High.
 
@Monarch


Hohenheim and Father are quite literally human stones themselves, I.E they don't have physical stones themselves since they are the stone they also regenerate from the massive stock pile of souls, and souls in Fullmetal Alchemist are seen as enegry.
 
I'm aware, and that doesn't change what I'm saying. Philosophers Stones are still physical things, not non-coporeal, and if you completely obliterated the physical form of Hohenheim or Father, they would have nothing left to regenerate from. There would be no Philospher's Stone anymore.
 
There would, they'd still have the souls within themselves to regenerate from. This is seen with Hohenheim being able to converse and talk to the countless amounts of souls within himself. If Lust, a vastly inferior Homunculi could regenerate after Roy vaporized, using nothing but the Stone then Hohenheim and Father could do the same. And Father's Evolved form is actually intangible.
 
What part of "completely obliterated" didn't you get. There is no more "within themselves" because there is no more "themselves".
 
When a Stone is destroyed the souls just don't magically go away, the souls need to be burned through. Hence why Hohenheim needed to straight up rip away Father's 60 million souls after obtaining them.


Their psychical bodies / Containers are irrelevant, Father's Evolved State even makes proof of this. Hohenheim actually orginally thought by doing what you suggested would kill Father once and for all, but it didn't. Father has evolved past that point and is stated so.
 
I don't remember the scenes well enough to counter that but I'm almost certain that low-godly is not a thing. I'll get back here after I re-read the story. In the mean time, please post scans to back up what you're saying.
 
It's almost 2 here, so I'm not gonna be able to comment much longer, let alone post scans. But you can see above for the scans I've posted for these claims or you can read my blog. Father's Evolved form is nothing but a mere mass of darkness, similar to that of his original state which was also immaterial.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Also I completely disagree with any notion of the homunculi (including Father and Hohenheim) having Low-Godly, even "possibly". The stones may be made of condensed souls, but they are still very much a small physical object that can be damaged by anyone with enough force without NPI or soul manipulation. They can regenerate from the stones, which are small enough to mean Low-High, but nothing more.
Also, they do not regenerate from souls, this is not the same as the LDO from Dies Irae. They use the energy contained within the stones to reform their bodies. That's it. They convert the souls in their bodies to fuel and use that fuel to regrow. Completely different situation.
Click to expand...
I agree with this. Low-Godly gives the idea that no matter what you do to the body, you need to destroy the soul to permanently kill them. It makes it seem like even if you kill the body 14568 times, a single soul will keep regenerating it unless the soul itself is destroyed. That's clearly not the case.

Nobody in FMA needs to specifically kill souls. A soul (or part of the soul/energy) is literally used up once you kill (or damage) the body. It's almost similar to if a stone has 427 souls, you just need to kill the body 427 times. It's equivalent to having 427 lives. And it's all contained in a philosopher's stone that should be counted as a special part of their body. If that part is destroyed i.e. the container that carries their extra lives is no more, then they won't be able to regenerate (I haven't seen any scans that says it can't be destroyed by conventional methods or AP).

They have shown High-Mid regen and reliant immortality.
 
AKM sama said:
They have shown High-Mid regen and reliant immortality.
Click to expand...
Having doubled checked our Regenerationn page, yes High-Mid is correct, not my earlier statement of Low-High
 
Okay, let's go. First of all no, High-Mid is blatantly incorrect, at the absolute worst it'd be Low-High due to the Stone not acting as a solid that you can shatter. The Stone is not a solid nor is it a liquid as stated by the man who quite literally makes them himself.


Nobody in FMA needs to specifically kill souls. A soul (or part of the soul/energy) is literally used up once you kill (or damage) the body. It's almost similar to if a stone has 427 souls, you just need to kill the body 427 times. It's equivalent to having 427 lives. And it's all contained in a philosopher's stone that should be counted as a special part of their body. If that part is destroyed i.e. the container that carries their extra lives is no more, then they won't be able to regenerate (I haven't seen any scans that says it can't be destroyed by conventional methods or AP).


Yeah no, bullshit mate. Doctor Marcoh specifically destroyed all Souls within Envy's body aside from his own soul in order to incapacitate him. One of the most knowledgeable characters in the series knew this was the only way to actually counter-act the Regenerationn of the Homunculi. Also the Stone isn't a Substance that can be destroyed through conventional means, it's a perfect high enegry substance so durability isn't an issue for it as stated by Edward himself. Nobody in Fullmetal Alchemist even bothers attacking the Stone directly because durability is a non-factor to them. Instead they always opt to nuke the Homunculi themselves, Destroy the souls or simply yank them back out as Hohenheim did to Father.
 
The Prince of Counters said:
Yeah no, bullshit mate. Doctor Marcoh specifically destroyed all Souls within Envy's body aside from his own soul in order to incapacitate him. One of the most knowledgeable characters in the series knew this was the only way to actually counter-act the Regenerationn of the Homunculi.
Click to expand...
Yes because by removing the souls you remove the energy source that they call on to power their Regenerationn.

Also Stones being too durable to bother attacking doesn't make them indestructible to physical attack.
 
Monarch, read my response to AKM again. AKM specifically stated that nobody in FMA needs to kill Souls, which I corrected him on. Everybody who's read the series is aware that if you take away the souls you take away their Regenerationn, I'm not arguing against that so I'm not sure what made you think I am.


Hohenheim as a 7-C can take portions of a 5-B to 4-C attack without shattering, and all he is is a living stone. Weaker Stone's such as Kimblee's which only uses a dozen or so souls is able to produce 7-C attacks without any sort of visible damage, and Edward himself who's very knowledgeable about the Stone even states that a Perfect Substance such as the Stone cannot be broken.


At the absolute worst it's Low-High, High-Mid is downplaying like a mother trucker and is quite literally ignoring how the damn stone works.
 
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