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Okay I don't know what anyone is talking about anymore.
Maybe I'm tired or something, I'm going unfollow this.
Maybe I'm tired or something, I'm going unfollow this.
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Fullmetal Alchemist Regenerationn revision
- Thread starter Elizhaa
- Start date
- Status
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- Thread starter
- #42
"The Physical State of the Stone is irrelevant for what the Homunculi regenerate from."TheRustyOne said:
> It was never stated from I saw; I had statements and feats from inputs on the Regenerationn from the others nothing came close to validating this point of view.
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See, Elizhaa gets what I'm trying to say, also congrats on the green name.
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The narrative and the context of the story really, the enitre point of Philosopher's Stone's are that they function and survive off of the tempest storm of souls. Homunculi aren't regenerating from the physical substance of the stone itself, they regenerate from the souls within the Stone, they are reliant on the soul not the substance the stone is made of.
Father in his evolved form is also proof of this, as in that form he exists as nothing but a mass of shadowy substance with the physical stone being shown nowhere inside him, it's the same reason why Hohenheim doesn't regenerate from a physical stone either. Wrath's entire backstory also furthers this, he cannot regenerate anymore due to him, or one of the souls killing off the other souls, leaving only one. Homunculi regenerate directly from souls, not the substance of the stone itself.
Father in his evolved form is also proof of this, as in that form he exists as nothing but a mass of shadowy substance with the physical stone being shown nowhere inside him, it's the same reason why Hohenheim doesn't regenerate from a physical stone either. Wrath's entire backstory also furthers this, he cannot regenerate anymore due to him, or one of the souls killing off the other souls, leaving only one. Homunculi regenerate directly from souls, not the substance of the stone itself.
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Wait I just rememer something, give me a second to check.
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Opps never mind, it was an anime only scene I guess.
Either way I don't agree with Low-Godly but I understand your point now. But the souls are the substance of the stone, they don't add anything besides souls when making a stone. When we're shown the creation of a stone it just appears in mid-air. I thought the stone itself is the physical form of those souls, and it being destroyed means that there aren't anymore souls left.
If the substance of the stone is irrelevant than why does it exist in the first place?
Either way I don't agree with Low-Godly but I understand your point now. But the souls are the substance of the stone, they don't add anything besides souls when making a stone. When we're shown the creation of a stone it just appears in mid-air. I thought the stone itself is the physical form of those souls, and it being destroyed means that there aren't anymore souls left.
If the substance of the stone is irrelevant than why does it exist in the first place?
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It being destroyed only occurs when the Stone is depleted of it's souls, simply destroying it doesn't destroy all of the souls inside it. Since why Hohenheim needed to go about outright ripping the 50 Million+ Souls from Father as opposed to simply going for the Stone itself.
The Physical Substance, I.E it's psychical form has nothing to do with it's Regenerationn, when it comes to the Regenerationn and reliance the Psychical substance is made irrelevant since Homunculi regenerate directly using the souls from within the stone. It's why Edward outright ignores going for the Stone itself against Pride, but rather invading the plethora of Pride's souls with his own soul, to destroy Pride from within.
I think a good compromise here is my suggestion of option 2. "At Least Low-High, Possibly Low-Godly"
The Physical Substance, I.E it's psychical form has nothing to do with it's Regenerationn, when it comes to the Regenerationn and reliance the Psychical substance is made irrelevant since Homunculi regenerate directly using the souls from within the stone. It's why Edward outright ignores going for the Stone itself against Pride, but rather invading the plethora of Pride's souls with his own soul, to destroy Pride from within.
I think a good compromise here is my suggestion of option 2. "At Least Low-High, Possibly Low-Godly"
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I thought Hohenheim and Father don't have stones inside of them, not only that but their Regenerationn should be superior to the Homunculi. Also Edward didn't want to kill Pride, destroying the stone would've killed him. (Though I highly doubt Edward could even destroy the stone)
If the stone is destroyed when all of the souls are gone, than shouldn't the reverse be true? Unless it's shown or stated to be otherwise. Regenerating by using the souls inside of the stones doesn't equal Low-Godly Regenerationn, they need the souls inside of the stone to work. If the souls weren't inside of the stone than they wouldn't be able to regenerate.
I think the stone is what keeps the souls in this world, it stops them from disappearing. So if the stone was destroyed all of the souls would disappear, meaning the Homunculi would die. Greed's stone was melted, it wasn't destroyed at the atomic level, Father just put it inside of him.
Unless it can be proven that destroying the stone wouldn't kill them, I don't see how it can be Low-Godly.
If the stone is destroyed when all of the souls are gone, than shouldn't the reverse be true? Unless it's shown or stated to be otherwise. Regenerating by using the souls inside of the stones doesn't equal Low-Godly Regenerationn, they need the souls inside of the stone to work. If the souls weren't inside of the stone than they wouldn't be able to regenerate.
I think the stone is what keeps the souls in this world, it stops them from disappearing. So if the stone was destroyed all of the souls would disappear, meaning the Homunculi would die. Greed's stone was melted, it wasn't destroyed at the atomic level, Father just put it inside of him.
Unless it can be proven that destroying the stone wouldn't kill them, I don't see how it can be Low-Godly.
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I think the simple point here is, unless it can be proven that they can regenerate when the stone is completely erased, than they aren't getting Low-Godly. It doesn't matter what powers the stone, the stone is a physical thing that exist. Whether it be a solid, lquid, or gas. Even if it was just plain energy it wouldn't be Low-Godly.
Even if it can't be destroy with AP, it still isn't Low-Godly regen.
Even if it can't be destroy with AP, it still isn't Low-Godly regen.
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I've already stated by the Stone can't be destroyed by means of sheer AP as long as the stone has souls within it. Doctor Marcoh is the only person who knows how to properly destroy the Stone, and that was by attacking and destroying the souls inside of the Stone, barring Envy's actual soul. He can create souls but he can also destroy them, as per his own words. Also Edward had direct access to the man's research I'm sure he knows how to destroy given he knows how to create stones, knows how to manipulate them and knows how to manipulate souls themselves. Father's Regenerationn is indeed superior to his children's Regenerationn, which is why it's the most valid for him at the very least, even at the end he didn't die, he was just taken away by Truth. If i recall correctly the OBD also gave Father high Regenerationn for this reason.
If the stone is destroyed when all of the souls are gone, than shouldn't the reverse be true? Unless it's shown or stated to be otherwise. Regenerating by using the souls inside of the stones doesn't equal Low-Godly Regenerationn, they need the souls inside of the stone to work. If the souls weren't inside of the stone than they wouldn't be able to regenerate.
No, the former is actually directly stated and shown while the latter is not. Your also the one making the claim that if the Stone itself is destroyed it also empties the soul stock pile, which is never stated let alone implied, so you'll need to provide citation for such a claim. And we already know that, if the souls are depleted then the Homunculi cannot regenerate.
The Stone isn't what keeps them in this world, it's the amount of souls within said stone that keeps them alive and active. The Stone hasn't been shown to empty itself of stones if it's destroyed, that's something you'll need to provide proper scans and citation for since that's never implied to be the case. Greed's stone was melted and absorbed by Father, he took Greed's soul back. Greed actually exists as nothing but a soul, as do other Homunculi and have shown the ability to absorb others and even take them over. ( Greed taking Ling over. ) point is, his soul is still in contact so he can still regenerate and make a new body.
You'll have to prove that the stone can be destroyed through physical means and doing so empties the souls, because that's never stated. You made the claim as you'll have to prove said claim.
At the very least Father should have Low-Godly for having soul based Regenerationn that isn't reliant on the stone itself. Also it being enegry is a valid reason for Low-Godly, several characters have High to Low-Godly for regenerating from energy.
If the stone is destroyed when all of the souls are gone, than shouldn't the reverse be true? Unless it's shown or stated to be otherwise. Regenerating by using the souls inside of the stones doesn't equal Low-Godly Regenerationn, they need the souls inside of the stone to work. If the souls weren't inside of the stone than they wouldn't be able to regenerate.
No, the former is actually directly stated and shown while the latter is not. Your also the one making the claim that if the Stone itself is destroyed it also empties the soul stock pile, which is never stated let alone implied, so you'll need to provide citation for such a claim. And we already know that, if the souls are depleted then the Homunculi cannot regenerate.
The Stone isn't what keeps them in this world, it's the amount of souls within said stone that keeps them alive and active. The Stone hasn't been shown to empty itself of stones if it's destroyed, that's something you'll need to provide proper scans and citation for since that's never implied to be the case. Greed's stone was melted and absorbed by Father, he took Greed's soul back. Greed actually exists as nothing but a soul, as do other Homunculi and have shown the ability to absorb others and even take them over. ( Greed taking Ling over. ) point is, his soul is still in contact so he can still regenerate and make a new body.
You'll have to prove that the stone can be destroyed through physical means and doing so empties the souls, because that's never stated. You made the claim as you'll have to prove said claim.
At the very least Father should have Low-Godly for having soul based Regenerationn that isn't reliant on the stone itself. Also it being enegry is a valid reason for Low-Godly, several characters have High to Low-Godly for regenerating from energy.
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No I didn't.
I'm not making the claim here you are. I gave an opinion which I didn't state as a fact. I even said that I think, not that it was factual. That wasn't my point there, in fact you ignored my point.
I don't care what the stone is or isn't, unless it's been shown that they can regenerate when it's erased than they don't get Low-Godly. You are claiming that the stone can't be destroy when that's never stated. Them regenerating from the souls is irrelevant since the souls are inside of the stone.
Unless you can prove that they can regenerate even if the stone was destroy than this conversation is pointless.
I'm not making the claim here you are. I gave an opinion which I didn't state as a fact. I even said that I think, not that it was factual. That wasn't my point there, in fact you ignored my point.
I don't care what the stone is or isn't, unless it's been shown that they can regenerate when it's erased than they don't get Low-Godly. You are claiming that the stone can't be destroy when that's never stated. Them regenerating from the souls is irrelevant since the souls are inside of the stone.
Unless you can prove that they can regenerate even if the stone was destroy than this conversation is pointless.
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If the stone is destroyed when all of the souls are gone, than shouldn't the reverse be true? Unless it's shown or stated to be otherwise. Regenerating by using the souls inside of the stones doesn't equal Low-Godly Regenerationn, they need the souls inside of the stone to work. If the souls weren't inside of the stone than they wouldn't be able to regenerate.
This was your comment, you didn't say you think or anything. I however did provide various scans and citations for my claims in this thread and on my blog.
Most characters in DI have Low-Godly Regenerationn for the same reason, because what they regenerate from is souls I've argued for the entire thread you have a complete and total misunderstanding of how the Stone works. They are not reliant on the vessel, they are reliant on the souls themselves. Which would indeed be low-godly.
I used no assumptions nor am i speculating, everything I've claimed is fact and I've provided scans. That's far from the usage of assumptions and speculation.
This was your comment, you didn't say you think or anything. I however did provide various scans and citations for my claims in this thread and on my blog.
Most characters in DI have Low-Godly Regenerationn for the same reason, because what they regenerate from is souls I've argued for the entire thread you have a complete and total misunderstanding of how the Stone works. They are not reliant on the vessel, they are reliant on the souls themselves. Which would indeed be low-godly.
I used no assumptions nor am i speculating, everything I've claimed is fact and I've provided scans. That's far from the usage of assumptions and speculation.
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I agree with prince here FRA
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Wait, I just notice your blog I need to read it.
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TheRustyOne said:
Take your time mate!
Also my blog is easier on the eyes than Elizhaa and as we known looks is everything-
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Wait your scans are giving me a 404 error.
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Pardon me? What does that mean, am I missing something?The Prince of Counters said:
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Prince's blog is pretty convincing.
Having taken place in the former CRTs Prince has done for the series and being a pretty avid fan, I cant disagree with Prince's interp. The Homunculi directly use souls from a Philosphers Stone to regenerate. The Stones utilize souls for their power source. Once the souls are depleted they die.
If anything I would argue for a situational Low Godly compromise here: its Low Godly regen but uas a limit
Having taken place in the former CRTs Prince has done for the series and being a pretty avid fan, I cant disagree with Prince's interp. The Homunculi directly use souls from a Philosphers Stone to regenerate. The Stones utilize souls for their power source. Once the souls are depleted they die.
If anything I would argue for a situational Low Godly compromise here: its Low Godly regen but uas a limit
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TheRustyOne said:
The site i used them from is currently down at the moment, so I'll have to wait till it gets fixed before fixing it.
Also the last part of my comment was a joke, figured you'd be able to catch on due to the - at the end of the comment.
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It's definitely soul-based Regenerationn. The stone has only ever been broken once the souls are depleted. I'm with Prince.
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Yeah I still agree with Prince.
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Looking through your blog, I notice you scan for sub-atomic destruction isn't sub-atomic destruction. Subatomic Destruction: It describes the energy necessary to destroy all of the atoms in a substance, by separating the particles in their nucleus.
If Glunttony regenerating from Subatomic destruction than he would've disappeared from sight. I still disagree, nothing you said convince me. Until I see a scan or statement that says they can regenerate if the stone is destroyed. The stone can't be destroyed doesn't equal Low-Godly, just means infinite durability or that it's intangible which isn't the case.
If Glunttony regenerating from Subatomic destruction than he would've disappeared from sight. I still disagree, nothing you said convince me. Until I see a scan or statement that says they can regenerate if the stone is destroyed. The stone can't be destroyed doesn't equal Low-Godly, just means infinite durability or that it's intangible which isn't the case.
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Scar's Alchemy is Deconstruction, it destroys the atoms of everything it touches. Scar Deconstructed Gluttony's insides which would also mean he Deconstructed the stone within Gluttony. I.E the stone has feats of being in tact while being deconstructed.
Gluttony regenerated having his insides deconstructed which would also include the Stone being deconstructed since it's inside Gluttony. The Stone not being able to be destroyed isn't what would give them low-Godly, Low-Godly comes from them regenerating from souls. The physical state of the Homunculi isn't relevant as long as the stone still has souls in them, that's the only way they'll permanently die.
Gluttony regenerated having his insides deconstructed which would also include the Stone being deconstructed since it's inside Gluttony. The Stone not being able to be destroyed isn't what would give them low-Godly, Low-Godly comes from them regenerating from souls. The physical state of the Homunculi isn't relevant as long as the stone still has souls in them, that's the only way they'll permanently die.
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Proof that all of his insides were deconstruction along with the stone? Scar can clearly control how much he destroys and he's very inconsistent. Also you do know that him destroying some atoms doesn't equal Glunttony regenerating from subatomic destruction?
I've made my point and I completely disagree, sorry but you don't have any proof. They'll only get Low-Godly if they can regenerate when the stone is completely erased, which you haven't proved. Nothing you say that doesn't prove that matters.
"Even though they regenerate from the energy of souls, they are still dependent on the stones to do so. It the stones are broken by a superior power, the homunculi wouldn't be able to recover."
You haven't disproven this, you've only given me words that mean nothing without scans. I'm done here, I'll let everyone else decide this.
I've made my point and I completely disagree, sorry but you don't have any proof. They'll only get Low-Godly if they can regenerate when the stone is completely erased, which you haven't proved. Nothing you say that doesn't prove that matters.
"Even though they regenerate from the energy of souls, they are still dependent on the stones to do so. It the stones are broken by a superior power, the homunculi wouldn't be able to recover."
You haven't disproven this, you've only given me words that mean nothing without scans. I'm done here, I'll let everyone else decide this.
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I never said he was fully deconstructed, you guys brought up the stone and I brought up Scar demonstrating it along with Gluttony's insides. I don't need to prove that all his insides were deconstructed, that's what Scar's Alchemy does. Atomic destruction, he deconstructs whatever he wishes and in this case it was Gluttony's insides, I also don't see how Scar's Deconstruction is inconsistent. It's pretty consistent in the way it works.
I've posted all the proof i need and several useds agree with me on the Low-Godly Regenerationn. For the last time, the physical state of the stone isn't what matters, it's the amount of souls it contains.
"Even though they regenerate from the energy of souls, they are still dependent on the stones to do so. It the stones are broken by a superior power, the homunculi wouldn't be able to recover."
The Stone's don't have a set durability and they've never been broken through sheer AP before while powered. Homunculi are reliant on the souls, not the stone itself which is what your side is arguing. If it was based solely on the stone then the Regenerationn of Homunculi would be ****** up, they'd be regenerating from a chunk with the stone inside and they'd regenerate from that. Gluttony after having his insides blown to bits was able to regenerate from the lower half of his body as opposed to regenerating from the chunk of meat that had the stone inside it.
I don't need to disprove it, it's a notion that's heavily misconstrued that the stone can be broken, thus instantly killing the Homunculi. The only way to beat the Regenerationn is either through absorption and depleting the stone of it's soul, since at that point it's just a stone. If it were that easy then Hohenheim would have gone to destroy the stone in Father, instead he manipulated the souls to attack Father and tear his Container into shreds, which Father still survived. I also agree that we should let everyone else decide at this point.
I've posted all the proof i need and several useds agree with me on the Low-Godly Regenerationn. For the last time, the physical state of the stone isn't what matters, it's the amount of souls it contains.
"Even though they regenerate from the energy of souls, they are still dependent on the stones to do so. It the stones are broken by a superior power, the homunculi wouldn't be able to recover."
The Stone's don't have a set durability and they've never been broken through sheer AP before while powered. Homunculi are reliant on the souls, not the stone itself which is what your side is arguing. If it was based solely on the stone then the Regenerationn of Homunculi would be ****** up, they'd be regenerating from a chunk with the stone inside and they'd regenerate from that. Gluttony after having his insides blown to bits was able to regenerate from the lower half of his body as opposed to regenerating from the chunk of meat that had the stone inside it.
I don't need to disprove it, it's a notion that's heavily misconstrued that the stone can be broken, thus instantly killing the Homunculi. The only way to beat the Regenerationn is either through absorption and depleting the stone of it's soul, since at that point it's just a stone. If it were that easy then Hohenheim would have gone to destroy the stone in Father, instead he manipulated the souls to attack Father and tear his Container into shreds, which Father still survived. I also agree that we should let everyone else decide at this point.
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I think Limited Low Godly makes sense.
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Agree with Prince here.
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I agree with this.Antvasima said:
High-Mid Regenerationn would be the best value for them to be rated as.
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The stones have never been broken unless they've been depleted. Still going with Prince.Damage3245 said:
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@Damage
The absolute worst they'd have is Low-High, High-Mid actually needs to be removed due to a misconception.
The absolute worst they'd have is Low-High, High-Mid actually needs to be removed due to a misconception.
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The stones never being broken by anyone doesn't mean it wouldn't matter if they were broken. Durability feat at best.
I agree with Elizhaa and made my argument on a wall somewhere already. Low-High.
I agree with Elizhaa and made my argument on a wall somewhere already. Low-High.
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I'm more inclined to go with Low High, possibly Low Godly.
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I think High-Mid or Low High both sound great either way.
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I agree with Elizhaa and TheRustyOne
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Promestein said:
And I've explained this to you on the wall several times. Your wrong and are leaving important bits of information out of this. There are no durability feats, that stone isn't something that can be broken with sheer AP untill it's depleted of souls. This is shown several times throughout the series and it's also why literally none of the State Alchemists attack the stone instead of attacking the Homunculi directly.
I'll settle for "Low-High, possibly Low-Godly" since that seems to be the conclusion that most users here agree with.
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You do know that like 2 dudes in the entire State Alchemists are aware of the stones inside the Homunculi right? Everyone else had like no idea they're regenerating off of their stones.
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The stones wouldn't exist at all if not for the souls. They're litterally the physical form given to transmuted human souls. So long as there are excess souls linked to the stones, the Homunculi (aka the soul in charge of that particular collection of souls) have Low-Godly Regen. When the souls are depleted to one (Wrath, Envy at the time of his death), they have no regen.
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There isn't enough evidence to suggest the stones are immune to conventional AP.
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